WHAT IS THE EXACT LENGTH OF DAYTONA NOSE MOUNTING C-CHANNEL

[daytonalo]

CAN SOMEONE PLEASE TELL ME THE PROPER LENGTH OF C-CHANNEL OR [CRASH BAR ] . HOW ABOUT A PICTURE , PLEASE! I WANT TO HANG THE NOSE THIS WEEKEND     IS THERE THREE BOLTS THAT HOLD BOLT THE Z-BRACKETS TO CRASH BAR ?

[hemigeno]

Larry,

Is this the part (the one marked with the yellow arrow) that you're looking to get some more details on?

[daytonalo]

YES , THATS IT , THANK YOU FOR GOING OUT OF YOUR WAY !

[hemigeno]

Hey, no problem - I took a couple of other pictures so you could see it even better...

Plus, the overall length of the channel is 20"

[hemigeno]

This is still taken from inside the nosecone, just pointing back at the seal that separates this area from the fenderwell

[hemigeno]

One more, from inside the fenderwell, pointing at the same seal the last picture showed from inside the nosecone

[daytonalo]

THANK YOU VERY MUCH , I HOPE I CAN HELP YOU SOMEDAY !

[hemigeno]

THANK YOU VERY MUCH , I HOPE I CAN HELP YOU SOMEDAY !

That's what the forum is for - trying to help each other out.  Glad you could make some use of this humongous paperweight I have shoved in the back of the shop here!!   

[daytonalo]

HOW MANY BOLTS ARE USED FOR Z-BRACKET TO CRASH BAR . FROM THE PIX I ONLY SEE FOUR THAT ARE IN FRONT OF DEPRESSION ON Z-BRACKET . ARE THERE TWO MORE ?

[daytonalo]

THE CRASH BAR IS 4 INCH BY WHAT . IS THE CHANNEL 4 INCH BY 1.5

[hemigeno]

THE CRASH BAR IS 4 INCH BY WHAT . IS THE CHANNEL 4 INCH BY 1.5

The channel is 3-3/4" wide, and it's a complex little sucker.  The top leg is about 7/8" deep, but there is an intermediate rolled bump-out that runs the length of the channel that juts out about 1/8".  That is to clear a corresponding bump-out on the Z-Brackets, and you should be able to see that in the pictures.  The bottom leg of the channel is 1-1/2".  The last picture I posted I think shows the profile of the bracket.

There are six bolts that hold the Z-Brackets to the channel.  Four of them also hold a section of seal on the opposite side of the Z-Bracket.  The two that do not also hold down that seal can be identified because they are the bolt heads that have depressions on their head/top.

Confused yet?

[hemigeno]

Hopefully this will help you figure out the bolts:

The bolts marked with the yellow arrow are the same bolt, just from two different perspectives:

[daytonalo]

THAT WAS EXACTLY WHAT I NEEDED, WERE ON THE SAME PAGE , THANK YOU , LARRY

[nascarxx29]

Im not sure but I think I have a template for that channel bracket.The other piece thats goes across.I dont have a pattern for it.Thanks Hemi Geno for showing Larry AKA daytonalo the way

[hotrod98]

Is the c-channel stepped lengthwise because of the shape of the frame rail or the z brace? I've noticed some repros that weren't stepped.

[daytonalo]

HEY DAVE, ON THAT CHANNEL THAT GOES ACROSS THE C-CHANNEL , DOES THE FRONT OF THE VALENCE BOLT TO THAT AND NOT THE NOSE ?

[hemigeno]

Is the c-channel stepped lengthwise because of the shape of the frame rail or the z brace? I've noticed some repros that weren't stepped.

It's stepped because of the Z-Bracket.  You can see the corresponding step in the Z-Bracket directly in front of the channel in the last picture I posted.

[daytonalo]

OK , BUT ISNT THERE A ANGLE THAT GOES FROM ONE SIDE TO THE OTHER AND THE VALENCE BOLTS TO IT ?

[nascarxx29]

I think that the piece your talking about.Goes to both side of the 2 straight channels.And provides the lower valance something to tie to?

[dayclona]

OK , BUT ISNT THERE A ANGLE THAT GOES FROM ONE SIDE TO THE OTHER AND THE VALENCE BOLTS TO IT ?

   Larry,
     The cross brace that ties the 2 C channels together, is a stepped peice, that bolts onto the bottom forward section of the C frames with 2 bolts per side, the stepped flange section in the center is stepped down, to meet the valance, and nosecone flange, all 3 pcs are thus bolted together increasing the strengh of the nosecone's belly, if your installing your cone,..........don't forget the fender to nose seals,............there's also 2   16"  x 1"x  1" foam strips that seal the gap between the valance/ cone flange and the ends of the fender to cone seals, although most people don't have/ see these on their original car , because they usally blew out on the first serious hi speed run!.........Larry veiw my website for some clear pics to answer your questions,.............................what are you using for fender to cone seals?...................if your making your own fine!,.....................if you purchased Year One, Dale's Cuda shop,.............their the same!............they give your nose the look of having a "turtle neck", or an inflated tire tube, ...........horrible!,............ask John A. @ F6DAYTONA,........( DC.com member),........he did his nose  seals several times, with original used, Year ONE, Dales's stuff,.............all I'll say is he ended up with DAYCLONA's seals on his car,............and John is very picky on what goes on/ in his cars..................I'm not trying to sell you anything here , .................FYI,...........I currently have 3 sets..........of 4 pc. noseseal sets in stock, if that helps you


Larry,.........looking at your pics, .............you could get by on the C frames using standard 4" x 1" iron channel, the original channels are .100 thick,..........or just shy 1/8" thick,..............if you study some pics on my site you'll see that some questions are answered for you, just study some assorted pics,....................................................


MIKE G./ DAYCLONA

[nascarxx29]

I had used those dales nose seal on 2 or 3 cars with same results They were like a bottom of a garage door rubber.They had a inflated intertube appearance were thin and cracked .And never stayed in.The ones from Mike G my friend got on his F6 daytona are the best so far .John is happy with them

[dayclona]

Is the c-channel stepped lengthwise because of the shape of the frame rail or the z brace? I've noticed some repros that weren't stepped.

   


   Larry,......aka HR98

The C frames that you saw,...........may or may not have been repros,.....although I do manufacturer "smooth" C frames with no step, to fit the Z bars with no lower stiffener edge,.................so did the "factory",..........early to mid 70's,........their was a vendor change in supplying nose bulkheads,( Z-bars),..............they were now listed in supplements as " crash bars", as they were intended to be a "crash" replacement part,...........these bars made in USA, lacked the "popcicle stick" stiffner depression, the lower raised strenghing rib, .....basicaly an intirely smooth surface,...................the "crash replacment"C frames also incorporated changes to fit these  new parts,..........hence the lack of "detail",.............crash bars/ frames are correct/ acceptable on a repaired Daytona/ Superbird, as these parts were offered for both models, daytona and bird Z bars/  C frames are different!,..................FYI,.........I do manufacturer "crash bars", as a lower cost alternative to the original style "detailed embossements" Z bar,.................just visit Dayclona.com



Mike G/ DAYCLONA

[dayclona]

I had used those dales nose seal on 2 or 3 cars with same results They were like a bottom of a garage door rubber.They had a inflated intertube appearance were thin and cracked .And never stayed in.The ones from Mike G my friend got on his F6 daytona are the best so far .John is happy with them

   Thank you, Dave!.................I know John was dissapointed with Year one/ Dales,..as he should be! doing his nose seals over and over!................their seals look like they reversed the mold or something?.............if they could reverse the finished part, the angles would be correct,.and the part could possibly be used!............I've fought with their part so much!........that's what prompted me to repro my own!


Mike G/ DAYCLONA

[daytonalo]

THANK YOU FOR ADVICE , MIKE WHAT IS THE CLEARANCE BETWEEN THE LEADING EDGE OF FENDER AND NOSE CONE FLANGE  ?

[dayclona]

THANK YOU FOR ADVICE , MIKE WHAT IS THE CLEARANCE BETWEEN THE LEADING EDGE OF FENDER AND NOSE CONE FLANGE  ?

          Larry,
               
                     the "gap" between the nosecone trailing edge, and the fender's  leading edge, is approx. 3/4 " to 7/8" max,..........although you could slide it out to 1" max, .......anything beyond this ,............won't look right,..............if you intend to push the nose in,.......allow a Standard panel alignment gap so you can slide your fingers under the hood, to open it,....................you could forgo any seals, and set the nose up like a bird,.....using a standard 1/4"- 3/8" gap between the fenders/ hood, and lower valance?






Mike G./ DAYCLONA

[daytonalo]

MIKE I DONT EXACTLY FOLLOW YOU , LOOKING FROM THE SIDE OF CAR WHAT IS THE GAP BETWEEN THE OUTSIDE EDGE OF FENDER AND OUTSIDE EDGE OF CONE . ALSO WHAT TYPE OF SEALING METHOD WAS USED ON SIPERBIRD? AND HAVE YOU EVER USED THIS SETUP ON A DAYTONA ?

[dayclona]

MIKE I DONT EXACTLY FOLLOW YOU , LOOKING FROM THE SIDE OF CAR WHAT IS THE GAP BETWEEN THE OUTSIDE EDGE OF FENDER AND OUTSIDE EDGE OF CONE . ALSO WHAT TYPE OF SEALING METHOD WAS USED ON SIPERBIRD? AND HAVE YOU EVER USED THIS SETUP ON A DAYTONA ?

  Larry,

         On the Daytona  3/4" to 7/8".gap between the nose/ fender as stated above,.................................................the birds used a noseseal that was applied to the joining edges/ pichweld of the fender and front inner fender/ lite bucket support edge,.........acting more as a chafe, or rub strip to isolate the bird cone from shake at speed.,................note the Daytona/ 70 charger fender has this same edge., exactly like the Bird/ 70 Coronet, so if you desire , you could use the superbird seal on the charger fender..............................Larry, I done daytona/ bird cones, real/ clone in all configurations, from stock, to custom, to molded in to the fenders,...............the choice is yours, as to personal prefrence?


Mike G/ DAYCLONA

[daytonalo]

LETS SAY I USE A SUPERBIRD SEAL ON A DAYTONA , WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE IN APPERANCE. LARRY

[daytonalo]

HEMI GENE, IS THERE ANY WAY YOU CAN POST A PICTURE OF THE VALANCE WHERE IT MEETS THE NOSE  TAKEN FROM THE INSIDE ? AND IF YOU COULD A CLOSE-UP OF THE OUTSIDE GAP OF NOSE TO FENDER.    THANK YOU ,LARRY

[hemigeno]

HEMI GENE, IS THERE ANY WAY YOU CAN POST A PICTURE OF THE VALANCE WHERE IT MEETS THE NOSE  TAKEN FROM THE INSIDE ? AND IF YOU COULD A CLOSE-UP OF THE OUTSIDE GAP OF NOSE TO FENDER.    THANK YOU ,LARRY

Larry, your PM box is full so I couldn't reply to you directly.  Yes, I can take some more pictures.  What specific part of that joint would you like to see?  The upper part of the valance? Near the crash bar?  In the center in front of the radiator?

Taking pics of the outer part of the fender-to-nosecone seal is no problem too.

I had seen your question, but I didn't have a chance to walk out in the shop yet.  We had the local Fire Marshall here at the office for our annual occupancy permit inspection and I was a little tied up with him.



Gene

[daytonalo]

THOSE FIRE MARSHALLS CAN BE A PAIN IN THE ASS , USUALLY POWER-HUNGRY JERK-OFFS !. JUST POST PIX ON HERE IF YOU CAN . I NEED TO SEE HOW THE VALENCE ATTACHES TO CROSS BAR DIRECTLY BEHIND NOSE , THANK YOU , LARRY

[hemigeno]

Larry,

I don't think the pictures I took can show exactly how the valance attaches to the crossmember, as I don't think that will be apparent unless you took the pieces apart.  Here goes though...

Fender-to-Nosecone seal

[hemigeno]

Another view of the fender-to-nosecone seal

[hemigeno]

Top view of valance/crossmember/nosecone connection

[hemigeno]

Underneath/bottom view of valance/nosecone connection.  The rusty portion in the center is metal, the painted portions at either end is a rubber seal with overspray (that's they way they built 'em)

[daytonalo]

THANK YOU , DOES THE FRONT EDGE OF VALENCE BOLT TO BOTTOM OF NOSE OR ONLY TO THAT CROSS BRACE THAT RUNS FROM C-BRACE TO C-BRACE ?

[hemigeno]

The Cross Brace width in the center is marked in yellow below...

[hemigeno]

The cross brace is outlined in yellow in this picture

[hemigeno]

The cross brace is also indicated in yellow from this same picture I posted earlier

[hemigeno]

THANK YOU , DOES THE FRONT EDGE OF VALENCE BOLT TO BOTTOM OF NOSE OR ONLY TO THAT CROSS BRACE THAT RUNS FROM C-BRACE TO C-BRACE ?

To specifically answer your question, there are three flanges that are bolted together.  The flange at the rear of the nosecone is on bottom, and is overlapped by the forward flange from the valance.  Those two are bolted to the cross brace flange, which is what you see on top (and has been outlined in yellow).

It's really hard to explain how these fit together unless you're looking at the pieces.  Can you post any pictures of what you're trying to fit together?

[daytonalo]

IM TRYING TO GET AN IDEA HOE THE ORIG NOSE WAS DONE . I'M USING A STINGER NOSE SO I HAVE TO MAKE ALL OF THE BRACING . UNLESS ANYBODY HAS TRIED TO INSTALL AND FUNCTION LIKE AN ORIG NOSE INCLUDING THE HEADLIGHTS WORKING JUST LIKE THE ORIGINALS DID MOST PEOPLE THINK ITS A MATTER OF BUYING A NOSE , SLAPPING IT ON THEN GO OUT AND BURN RUBBER , BOY ARE THEY CLUELESS !

[dayclona]

THANK YOU , DOES THE FRONT EDGE OF VALENCE BOLT TO BOTTOM OF NOSE OR ONLY TO THAT CROSS BRACE THAT RUNS FROM C-BRACE TO C-BRACE ?

To specifically answer your question, there are three flanges that are bolted together.  The flange at the rear of the nosecone is on bottom, and is overlapped by the forward flange from the valance.  Those two are bolted to the cross brace flange, which is what you see on top (and has been outlined in yellow).

It's really hard to explain how these fit together unless you're looking at the pieces.  Can you post any pictures of what you're trying to fit together?

      As I mentioned earlier in my post Larry, all 3 pcs are indeed bolted together,.........It's hard to see when a nosecone is assembled on the car,......so lets back up to the begining, and assemble the nose, the cone should have the L/R lite buckets mounted (complete assemblies), the Z bars bolted to the lite buckets/ lower nose tabs, the forward lite harness, the forward vacumm harness (if using vacumm),directionals mounted/ grounded to the Z bar( ground wire if using 69 valiant lites), the grille frame/ screen, ..................on a "real", or correctly done Daytona, the 2 vertical Z bar seals, and the lower/ horizontial seals would be pop riveted into place, all this stuff has to be in place at finish installation, as you will be hard pressed to try and install it later with the nose bolted on the car!.............now to the car, the C frames would be bolted to the frame, were the bumper brackets were, the fender seals would be installed, the lower valance would be installed, the cross member tieing the C frames would be bolted to the C frames, it would mate with the valance flange, (but not bolted yet in the center, it still has to receive the nose cone),......the inner fender air seals L/R would also be installed, the center valance radiator yoke (lower) air seal would also be installed, the drivers side battery/ yoke air seal would be installed, the latch tray rear receiver strip would be present on the upper radiator yoke, the radiator foam seals could be installed along with the radiator, the lower valance foam seals that fill the area between the valance center flange and the outer fender seals would be installed,..............now the car is ready to receive the nose, with as many asistants, slide the nose towards the car, taking note that the Z bars slide inside the C frames, that the lower cone flange slides under the valance flange, now while supporting the nose , 6 bolts per side are run thru the C frames/ Z bars,the horizontial seals installed earlier on the Z bars are now attached with the 6 bolts.per side( you bolt/ nut the Z bar/ C frame first, then install the seal, then washer/ nut the seal on the same bolts)........5 bolts are run thru the cross brace/ valance flange/nose cone, this finishes the bottom bolting,........now the latch tray is bolted to the top of the Z bar flanges/ the upper cone flange/ and the radiator support,..............of course, some aligning, tweaking, is needed at this point to line up the nose, best to "hand" tighten at this point of assemble, as the nose will move and distort, also the headlite doors which may have been perfect before, ......may need realignment, ( monkey arms are needed at this point!),..........Larry I know your car will differ in some construction "points" as you have fabricated your own peices,..............which is fine!, you'll have to adjust your componets to your individual assembly specs/ order,..............I just felt to convey the order in which I assemble Factory/ my cloned parts,(plus this might help others lost in assembly).............usally when all the peices have been dry fitted, painted, detailed, etc..........to assemble a cone,prepare the car to receive it, install the cone, fully aligned it,.........generally takes 2 people 3-4 hrs to complete,..........this is  after you,ve done it a few dozen times!  .................Larry if you are going to set your nosecone up to fit like a bird, using bird seals,..........you must shorten the width of the lower nosecone flange to allow the cone to move back against the car, also the latch tray receiver stip must be shortened  in width to allow the latch tray to move rearward, ( assuming your using a Daytona latch tray)...............refer to the pics that Hemigeno posted to understand visually what I posted here!



MIKE G/ DAYCLONA

[dayclona]

IM TRYING TO GET AN IDEA HOE THE ORIG NOSE WAS DONE . I'M USING A STINGER NOSE SO I HAVE TO MAKE ALL OF THE BRACING . UNLESS ANYBODY HAS TRIED TO INSTALL AND FUNCTION LIKE AN ORIG NOSE INCLUDING THE HEADLIGHTS WORKING JUST LIKE THE ORIGINALS DID MOST PEOPLE THINK ITS A MATTER OF BUYING A NOSE , SLAPPING IT ON THEN GO OUT AND BURN RUBBER , BOY ARE THEY CLUELESS !

      Larry,
       I can feel your need for info,.................it's generally lacking with other vendors,...............they sell you the stuff,............but thats generally it!.....your on your own,...............I usally offer  assembly, full/ partial,...............or detailed pics, instructions with the sale of my parts if a customer is green on assy..............................most people new to building a wingcar haven't a clue whats inside that cone,? or under a rear window plug? ....................never mind the amount of research needed just to tool up to produce parts , the time/ money needed to tool up, the supplies/ equipment/shop/etc /etc..................then the wingers themselves!....................who think their gonna build a wingcar on a prayer and a shoestring budget!.................like ya said , alot of think I'll just slap on a wing/ nose,...............and go cruising!!!!!!!!!!!!.................most phone conversations usally start with I need a wing and a cone,..........do I need anything else!     after the "laundry list of parts" and $$$$$$$$$$$ needed,               it's,......................I'll get back to you? ,...............you sure I need all that?


Mike G/ DAYCLONA

[daytonalo]

THANK YOU MIKE AND GENE , YOU HAVE BOTH BEEN A BIG HELP . LARRY . HEY MIKE WHAT IS THE ADVANTAGE GOING WITH S-BIRD SEALS VS DAYTONA AND WHERE DO I GET S-BIRD SEALS ?

[G-Series]

Year One

[daytonalo]

WHAT WILL I GAIN BY  USING A S-BIRD SEAL VS A DAYTONA , AND HOW MUCH TIGHTER WILL THE GAP BE BETWEEN THE NOSE AND THE FENDER?....LARRY

[daytonalo]

year one sells those seals for 18 each , is this right ? sounds cheap

[G-Series]

That's them.  You'll gain a more refined/sleeker look, but at what cost.  Think about how much extra work you'll be creating for yourself.  Reread Mike's post about what is required to move the nose back the 3/4".   Your car, your decision.  If you look at the black Winged Bee we did(pics on website), we moved the nose back and used the Bird seals.

[daytonalo]

AT THIS POINT WHAT IS A LITTLE EXTRA WORK TO MAKE IT PERFECT , THAT HAS ALWAYS BEEN MY LOGIC ANYWAY ! THANKS FOR THE TIP ON THE SUPERBIRD SEALS , I'M GOING WITH THAT SET- UP .. LARRY

[nascarxx29]

It will look cleaner with the superbird type nose fitting and typical superbird type windshield gaskets seals for daytonalos car . Just wondering as his car has the ribbed 70 typical charger hood .Will there be any clearance issues to look out for.That was earlier mentioned in this.Not sure if this will affect daytonalos procedure though
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,8213.0.html

[daytonalo]

DAVE I KNOW WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT , BUT I HAVE VIEWED  MANY  DAYTONAS AND ALL OF THE ONES I VIEWED HAD THOSE RIBS YOUR TALKING ABOUT . I DOUGHT  ALL THOSE CARS HAD A HOOD SWAP !  OBVIOUSLY I KNOW HOW THE DAYTONA NOSE TO FENDER SEALS ATTACH BUT HOW DOES THE S-BIRD NOSE TO FENDER SEALS ATTACH ?  LARRY

[nascarxx29]

They are like I said.I recall them being like a notch cut windshield gasket material .They went on the inside nose edge if I remember. Unlike how the daytonas ones were screw on to the fender mounted .I glued mine in place with weatherstrip adhesive sometimes on the superbird nose.The superbirds as you know used the 70 dodge coronet fender that had no fender attached fillers .As my 70 coronet has the filler material attached the bumper itself.And in the superbirds case its attached to the nose edge .What are you using for the front hood seal as seen here.The piece found on a 70 charger

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,11414.0.html

[daytonalo]

THE HOOD SEAL IS THE SAME FOR BOTH WING CARS

[nascarxx29]

Im not talking about the one on underside of the hood seal.The daytona has a front hood seal in front of the latchtray same as used on a 70 charger.The superbird doesnt have one in front of its latchtray

[daytonalo]

 I BOUGHT A SET OF S-BIRD SEALS , AS YOU KNOW THEY HAVE A GROOVE IN THEM , I ASSUME THAT THEY ARE INSTALLED ON NOSE ? I QUICKLY THREW THEM ON THE NOSE AND THEY SEEM TO HANG OUT A LITTLE TOO MUCH , WHAT AM I DOING WRONG ? COULDN'T I BUY A DAYTONA SEAL AND TRIM THE FRONT EDGE OF SEAL AND THEREFORE ALLOWING ME TO BRING NOSE CLOSER TO FENDERS ?  LARRY