Noob looking to buy a Charger

[REED]

Does it being an automatic kill the value a lot? Or is this normal for then?

You know like when you see a Mustang GT rolling around and then you find out it's an automatic 

[REED]

I asked if headlamp covers worked and if anything DOESNT work.

Said, the headlamp covers do work and the only think they can think of that doesnt is the heater switch.

[skip68]

Muscle cars have a value based on the fact it's a muscle car.   Having a 4speed increases that value and is more rare.    I could probably find hundreds of mustang gt 5speeds to 1 4speed charger.   

[REED]

Muscle cars have a value based on the fact it's a muscle car.   Having a 4speed increases that value and is more rare.    I could probably find hundreds of mustang gt 5speeds to 1 4speed charger.   

Right I figured as much... Just didn't know if it was a big no-no... or more acceptable for muscle classics to have an auto.

[REED]

Just looked up exhaust systems for the fun of it and saw "Dual HEADERBACK"

And I was like... OH yeah... there's no CAT..... FUN.

I'd imagine you see a decent boost from a new exhaust?

[VegasCharger]

Hello and welcome aboard
Like others said rust is your enemy. For 5k minor rust is okay but major I'd stay away. As far as the engine compartment, yea that does look intimindating with that rat's nest wiring. As a seller if he or she would take some effort in organizing the wiring it could help them with their asking price. When a buyer sees that it's like their jaw drops. And it's really not a hard fix especiallly now that you're a member on here to ask us questions. Now if we're talking about a burnt hacked up wiring harness that's a different issue. Or the fact that it's hacked up now a may cause issues shortly after you own it. But it appears as you said the owner says most of the electric works with the exception of the wiper switch. And did anybody else notice the incorrect wiper switch knob? I did right away lol. Could be the reason that it doesn't work.

I say I can't blame for gathering up as much info thru them and here on this board before you take that journey of going to see the Charger.

My pros just from the pics:

- It's a 1971

- Rallye cluster has 150 speedo and NO cut out radio area (and if you buy the car please don't cut out radio area, I'll trade you one that already has it cut out lol).

- Slap stick console that seems NOT to be cracked or drilled holes.

- Bucket seats

- Complete hide away grille with working head light doors

- All of these above items are high dollar if you were to go out and buy them separately say if the car didn't have them already.

- And you at least would have some rims and tires to start off with.

Cons:

- Rat nest engine compartment wiring.

- Possible quickie paint job to hide issues

- Missing the wheel well trim (NOT a major issue just pointing it out).

- It's far from you

If it were me and this Charger only had little to no rust issues, I'd be all over it for around $4000.00 to $4500.00.
Well good luck on what ever you decide and keep us posted.

[REED]

Ok AC doesn't work... the pump isn't on the car because it died.

How big of a deal?

Also... if I wanted to do a manual conversion... is thus a regular thing people do or don't bother?

[73rallye440magnum]

That engine wiring is a fire waiting to happen. Looks like a fun cruiser. Like others have said, put a 4 speed in it and proceed to beat the living hell out of it.

A 4 barrel carb won't do much for you without a camshaft. Buy it first and then we'll guide you.

4 speed swap can probably be done in a weekend with a friend and $1000 worth of gathered used parts and supplies.

AC repairs will be a couple hundred bucks.

I think $4k is about the going rate on this one. The more you speak with the selling party the more issues they reveal. If it has a clean title that matches the VIN, and is not totally rotten offer $4k cash and don't budge.

[squeakfinder]

   Carter AFB 4 barrel is easy to see BECAUSE they are running it without an air cleaner  ? The wiring mess can be cleaned up. That hose on the driver side valve cover should be hooked to a pcv valve but appears to just be loosely shoved into the hole? I'd start it up, let it run for a minute and drive it. Probably do a compression check after the drive. I hate it when people run engines without air cleaners, no good comes of that.

[archie360]

Worst case the car is probably worth five in parts.  If the body is solid and the motor isn't knocking I think 5k is a good price.  If the body is great I don't think seven would be unreasonable.  From the pics it will need a lot of tlc to get it where it needs to be but that's not unusual for a driver.  Values of third gens have shown some increase over the last year.  I own two and my classic car insurance went up recently due to rising values.

I paid $4300 for this 383 N code original motor but it needed a lot of work (on going).  Pic was taken this fall after I painted it and before winter hit...

[polywideblock]

 looks  like a nice ride   welcome to the site 

look REAL close along that seam  on the firewall    

   they rust out from the inside of cowl ,  look for swelling or lumps along seam especially in the corners at each side and   above blower motor 

[Pete in NH]

HI,

I've owned my 71 383 since it was brand new back in 71. I think the third generation cars are a bit more refined than the second generation cars and are very nice highway cars. 383's are rock solid engines. Back in 71 almost all these cars were sold as automatics, standard transmissions were quire unusual.

I agree with those who have said inspect it carefully for major rust and the quicky paint job can be a dead give away for lots of less than good body work. I'd be looking very carefully for lots of filler on panels. Also, as others have said, the engine compartment is a mess and The wiring looks like a fire waiting to happen. I would get new wiring harnesses in there pretty quickly.

The A/C compressor and front mounting bracket are missing as are all the A/C lines. The A/C compressor acts as the idler pulley for the alternator and this car has been converted to a Non A/C belt configuration. So, you will have to find quite a few bits and pieces to convert it back. All in all the car looks typical of a 40+ year old car that's been through multiple owners.

If you buy it keep in mind that you will be putting more money into it than you will ever get back. You only buy a car like this because you really like the car and are willing to slowly bring it back to what it once was.

[REED]

HI,

I've owned my 71 383 since it was brand new back in 71. I think the third generation cars are a bit more refined than the second generation cars and are very nice highway cars. 383's are rock solid engines. Back in 71 almost all these cars were sold as automatics, standard transmissions were quire unusual.

I agree with those who have said inspect it carefully for major rust and the quicky paint job can be a dead give away for lots of less than good body work. I'd be looking very carefully for lots of filler on panels. Also, as others have said, the engine compartment is a mess and The wiring looks like a fire waiting to happen. I would get new wiring harnesses in there pretty quickly.

The A/C compressor and front mounting bracket are missing as are all the A/C lines. The A/C compressor acts as the idler pulley for the alternator and this car has been converted to a Non A/C belt configuration. So, you will have to find quite a few bits and pieces to convert it back. All in all the car looks typical of a 40+ year old car that's been through multiple owners.

If you buy it keep in mind that you will be putting more money into it than you will ever get back. You only buy a car like this because you really like the car and are willing to slowly bring it back to what it once was.

What do you mean Ill put more money than Ill ever get back?

Is this not the type and/or model car that could be worth something nice?

I was always under the assumption restoring a classic muscle car will hold its value.

Or are you saying, if you put 30k into it, youll be lucky if its worth 20k?

[skip68]

If you're buying because you love the car and look it's worth whatever you're willing to spend on it because it's what YOU want.   
If you're buying it as an investment/ flipper then it's worth $2-$3K. 

Buying a car, hot rod, etc as a passion purchase means you'll spend more because its a want and probably 95% of the time you'll never get what you've put into it back when selling it.   
If you have hopes of fixing it up to resale for profit this is the wrong car and or price.   Especially if you have to have most the work farmed out.   

[skip68]

I do think it's a great starter charger you can tinker with and enjoy driving around.   Bottom line is there's lots of cars out there, you just need to know what you really want before buying. 

[EccentricMagpies]

If you're buying because you love the car and look it's worth whatever you're willing to spend on it because it's what YOU want.   
If you're buying it as an investment/ flipper then it's worth $2-$3K. 

Buying a car, hot rod, etc as a passion purchase means you'll spend more because its a want and probably 95% of the time you'll never get what you've put into it back when selling it.   
If you have hopes of fixing it up to resale for profit this is the wrong car and or price.   Especially if you have to have most the work farmed out.   

Agree.  If flipping is the intent then you are not going to make money on this car.

It is a fair price at the ~5K range to simply drive it as is.   

You mentioned 4 speed conversion already... just look for a 4 speed Charger, hard to find but they are out there.

[REED]

If you're buying because you love the car and look it's worth whatever you're willing to spend on it because it's what YOU want.   
If you're buying it as an investment/ flipper then it's worth $2-$3K. 

Buying a car, hot rod, etc as a passion purchase means you'll spend more because its a want and probably 95% of the time you'll never get what you've put into it back when selling it.   
If you have hopes of fixing it up to resale for profit this is the wrong car and or price.   Especially if you have to have most the work farmed out.   

No Im not looking to flip it... I do love the dodge charger and want to own one.

I understand what youre saying, Im not going to get dollar for dollar back on it... but what do you think... $.50 on the dollar?

Could this car be a 25k car?

[myk]

HI,

I've owned my 71 383 since it was brand new back in 71. I think the third generation cars are a bit more refined than the second generation cars and are very nice highway cars. 383's are rock solid engines. Back in 71 almost all these cars were sold as automatics, standard transmissions were quire unusual.

I agree with those who have said inspect it carefully for major rust and the quicky paint job can be a dead give away for lots of less than good body work. I'd be looking very carefully for lots of filler on panels. Also, as others have said, the engine compartment is a mess and The wiring looks like a fire waiting to happen. I would get new wiring harnesses in there pretty quickly.

The A/C compressor and front mounting bracket are missing as are all the A/C lines. The A/C compressor acts as the idler pulley for the alternator and this car has been converted to a Non A/C belt configuration. So, you will have to find quite a few bits and pieces to convert it back. All in all the car looks typical of a 40+ year old car that's been through multiple owners.

If you buy it keep in mind that you will be putting more money into it than you will ever get back. You only buy a car like this because you really like the car and are willing to slowly bring it back to what it once was.

What do you mean Ill put more money than Ill ever get back?

Is this not the type and/or model car that could be worth something nice?

I was always under the assumption restoring a classic muscle car will hold its value.

Or are you saying, if you put 30k into it, youll be lucky if its worth 20k?

Yeah, something like that.  

If you're looking at this as some sort of investment that's going to reward you with a pay off in the future you can forget about it.  Classic cars are an endeavor of love and limitless, unconditional devotion, not logic and practical financial sense.  I guess if you bought a rare, desirable car that's aleady in PERFECT shape, all you would have to do is maintain it and it would probably hold its value, but it's not something I would bank on, because in the classic car market NOTHING is guaranteed.  Now if you're like most buyers and are looking to get into a "project" car?  Let me tell you right now that the estimate that you think you have in your head in order to bring your "project" up to speed is WRONG; you will spend more time and money than you can forsee.  I'm not trying to scare you or other "noobs" looking to get into classic cars, but it isn't always cool and easy like American Graffiti; sometimes it's just a lot of money and headaches.  

Bottom line is, don't approach this as a way to make money.  This is about love, not money...

[Homerr]

What do you mean Ill put more money than Ill ever get back?

You will lose money on this car.  Buy one because you love the car and hobby.  If you don't then don't buy one.

Is this not the type and/or model car that could be worth something nice?

High-end Cudas, Challengers, Daytonas, Superbirds are the ones able to turn a profit.

I was always under the assumption restoring a classic muscle car will hold its value.

This has hardly ever been the case, except in a few instances like 1992 and 2007 when investors came in to the car market and bought up high-end stuff and drove the prices higher.  Auctions like Mecum and TV shows distort the reality of the hobby.

Or are you saying, if you put 30k into it, youll be lucky if its worth 20k?

That would probably be considered a good return, 50 cents on the dollar or less is sometimes more common.  Rust, hidden bondo repairs, rare parts, simple $2,000 paint jobs snowballing in to $50,000 restorations are all pitfalls.


Also, the time you put in on the car is worth exactly $0 per hour.  Unless you do stupid stuff to the car then you may be working at $-100/hr on it.

You eluded to a 4-speed.  Buy what you want instead of hacking up a car.  You'll save time, money, and hassle.  And you'll have more road time instead of up on the blocks time.

If the motor is numbers matching and you do end up swapping it out hold on to that motor, there is only one numbers matching motor for this car.

Don't negotiate price until you have seen the car in person!  You're setting the precedent with the seller and if you see it and it smells like mold inside, has rust, misfires or stalls, leaks, etc. you are going to have to back out of a list of assumptions that you and the seller each had.

[skip68]

Buying a car and making a profit is very doable.   I've done it several times.   The trick is you make your money when you buy the car.   You find deals that you can sell immediately without even touching the car and turn a profit.   Those deals don't come up every day though.   

[70 sublime]

You do not have to lose money on any car if you buy it right and watch what you spend your cash on later

If you have to have a shinny everything like new you will lose money (when was the last time you bought a new car and sold it for more than you paid for it ?? it loses 10% the day you drive it off the lot)

If it is the shinny car you want look around for one that someone else spent all the money on to make it that way and is losing $$ when they sell it to you 

I have never lost money on a classic mopar car
Only car I lost $$ on was a 66 Mustang for the wife and it was one of those eveything shinny cars

Only buy a car you will be happy to own and if you can sell it later on and move up to a better car good but not bad if you can not sell it either because it is the car you wanted

[REED]

Thanks for all the input guys!

For the RECORD, I am NOT looking to flip a car.

However, I am always cost conscious and investment conscious.

I had an understanding that if I bought something like this and restored it (however long it took)... Lets say I got it to be worth around 20k, and I kept it in that condition, it would stay around that worth... versus lets say I buy a 2004 corvette (which I was looking at)... pay 20k... it's worth 15k, then 12k, then 10k, then 8k.

Like I said, I AM buying for the love of the car. I want to own a charger, not just fix one up and sell it... but Im sure the day WILL come when Ill sell it.. and I just want to know it will be worth something, even if it's not dollar for dollar what I put into it.

Either way, all the input is great.

[ACUDANUT]

I don't think you will lose money if you want to resale it someday.  Look at the Cowl area as Poly mentioned and the frame. The blue paint with a brown interior does not look right.  If it's a good running motor, that's worth 2-3 grand alone.  Just drive and have fun.

[REED]

Well some good news... I told them I really hate to drive 3 hours to look under the car and see it rotting out (not saying it is)... They said they should be able to get it on a lift and take pictures underneath in the next few days.

That would give me a lot more peace of mind before I drive 3 hours and be on the ground in 24 degree weather, plus I can post them here and you guys can tell me what you think.

[JamieZ]

As far as losing money...you have to factor in the enjoyment you get out of the car. 

If you are going to buy a car, due minimal repairs and then attempt to sell it for a profit, you need to get very cheap...probably 4k or less.

If you are going to buy it, put some money into it, drive it for a few years going to shows, cruises, or just doing burnouts...then the question is what is that worth to you?

I think you'll find most individuals in the car hobby do it because they love cars (driving them, working on them, looking at them, whatever) not because they are figuring they'll make big $ out of it.