Opinions on a build please?

[fizz]

70 charger r/t is out of paint and time to start on engine/trans. Decided: 505 stroker, 727 w/ gear venders, six pack with promax modded carbs, edelbrock heads from porter racing, 10 1/2 compression. objective is a 12 second car that can be driven anywhere. Hydraulic roller cam?, 4.10 gears? Header and exhaust sizing? Six pack just cause I wanted one since the 70s, I will have figure it out.

[fy469rtse]

i hope Ron and challenger 340 respond on this one ,
six packs err, why 505  just so you can use the internal pick up , nah  go up one size , oil pick up through side of sump
no replacement for displacement  will help you reach your 12 second mark all that easier
2" primary's tti s street set should fit , 3" to rest
if going hydraulic roller , spend the money on bushing lifter bores for uniformed oil pressure and longevity of valve train
hydraulic roller has its limits rev range ,   
guy's with a lot more experiance then me will pipe in ,
look for challenger340 "s build thread on similar engine, he has just started this , school is in     

[fizz]

Six pack because I will regret not doing it I don't, just a cool factor thing to me, I will be trying to gain insight from challenger 340's build. I started out thinking john 108s build, apparently a lot of thought went into it. That's where the 505 came from, it looks like pretty much a drop in, don't know anything about external pickups, but wouldn't be afraid of it with some schooling. Dwayne Porter spent a lot of time with me on the phone(amazing), and that's where the hydraulic roller came from. More to be learned from that, he is going to recommend a grind, although prior to talking to him I had written off roller cams in big block mopars. I think that maybe a hydraulic roller to gain a little more off john 108s build. I am concerned about bushing the lifter bores, I am not sure if my machine shop is familiar with this. So, I would like to know more about picking a cam, and what the best approach to purchasing the six pack setup is, and also looking for a dyno shop to tune it when it is put together in Minnesota(Fargo, Minneapolis, Sioux falls).

[justcruisin]

What is your budget, you will spend a bit on a roller camed 6 pack stroker, if that's what you want then that's cool, interested to follow along, but if you just want a 12 second get in and drive it car, you can achieve that with a 3.75 stroke flat tappet 440.

[fizz]

Not really restricted on my budget, just might take a little longer the more I spend. Only going to build one muscle car, might as well get it right the first time. Power tour type roadability is important, didn't think that was too likely with a 12 second 440 cu. in.

[Dino]

I'm not sure about the Gear vendors overdrive.  It's a lot of money for not that much reduction in rpm.  There also seem to be some possible vibration issues with this unit but those are hopefully exceptions.  It doesn't take much to install an A518 with lock up converter but you'd probably have to beef it up a bit so you don't grenade it.

[BSB67]

i hope Ron and challenger 340 respond on this one ,
six packs err, why 505  just so you can use the internal pick up , nah  go up one size , oil pick up through side of sump
no replacement for displacement  will help you reach your 12 second mark all that easier
2" primary's tti s street set should fit , 3" to rest
if going hydraulic roller , spend the money on bushing lifter bores for uniformed oil pressure and longevity of valve train
hydraulic roller has its limits rev range ,   
guy's with a lot more experiance then me will pipe in ,
look for challenger340 "s build thread on similar engine, he has just started this , school is in     

You don't need one of those things to go 12s.

To the OP, I commend you for putting out a car performance goal verses "....I want xxxx hp....". But there is a big difference in having a car that can run a 12.95 at Atco in October, verses one that will run 12.0s on a 100° day in Denver.  The other pieces of info that are good would be: where you are at, what would be a more specific et goal, and if you wanted to do it with, or without gear/converter/tire/suspension stuff.

[firefighter3931]

Six pack because I will regret not doing it I don't, just a cool factor thing to me, I will be trying to gain insight from challenger 340's build. I started out thinking john 108s build, apparently a lot of thought went into it. That's where the 505 came from, it looks like pretty much a drop in, don't know anything about external pickups, but wouldn't be afraid of it with some schooling. Dwayne Porter spent a lot of time with me on the phone(amazing), and that's where the hydraulic roller came from. More to be learned from that, he is going to recommend a grind, although prior to talking to him I had written off roller cams in big block mopars. I think that maybe a hydraulic roller to gain a little more off john 108s build. I am concerned about bushing the lifter bores, I am not sure if my machine shop is familiar with this. So, I would like to know more about picking a cam, and what the best approach to purchasing the six pack setup is, and also looking for a dyno shop to tune it when it is put together in Minnesota(Fargo, Minneapolis, Sioux falls).

The hyd roller cam will work fine for your build....just let Dwayne spec it for you and it'll run like a champ.    The internal pickup and street hemi oilpan with windage tray will suit your needs just fine. The 2in TTI headers and 3in exhaust is plenty for that build.

You'll be well into the 11's with that build with good traction ! 


Ron

[fizz]

Is bushing the lifter bores the same situation as with a solid roller? What are the opinions on where to buy the six pack setup. 12 flat is my success goal.

[firefighter3931]

Fizz,

Bushing the lifter bores is a good idea with any roller cam but especially a hyd roller. These blocks are old and have some wear on them. Loose lifter bores are not good with a hyd cam and an cause oil control issues if they are too loose. Bushing them will also correct any geometry issues that may be present. 

Lots of vendors carry the 6-pack setup....shop around for the best price. 



Ron

[c00nhunterjoe]

Good lord, if all you want is 12's then all you need is a mild, pump gas 440 with a slightly better then stock pair of heads. That 6 pack would love a set of out of the box eddy heads and something like a comp xs282 cam. Couple that with a 10:1 bottom end and 3.91's and you should be comfortably in the 12's on radials.

[fizz]

Not disagreeing that a 440 with typical performance work would easily do 12s, but isn't hopping in it, driving 500 miles with the air on @ 75 down the interstate, then dusting off a 12 sec Camaro a much larger order. Actually, I want this car #1 to be able to drive comfortably with traffic interstate speeds, and maintain some respect by being faster or a least as fast as my kids slightly warmed 2010 Camaro.

[Cooter]

Actually, I want this car #1 to be able to drive comfortably with traffic interstate speeds, and maintain some respect by being faster or a least as fast as my kids slightly warmed 2010 Camaro.

There's a fifty year gap in performance. Good luck. Try not to get too much butt hurt when "the kid" sees you in his rearview and buys a supercharger "kit" off e pay and you have to start all over again.

[six-tee-nine]

Ok, but even with you pants down to your ankles, you still are moving forward in style.

[fizz]

LOL, which is exactly what he says he is going to do.

[BSB67]

LOL, which is exactly what he says he is going to do.

Trust me, if it's fast for what it is, even if you get beat,  others will still be impressed.  Every time I've been beat with my latest combo,  the guy I've lost to comes and finds me, usually with an entourage, to see what he almost lost to because he is surprised.  They are especially dumfounded when they see there is no nitrous, no headers, no "gear" , no high stall converter....

When you run those guys with all the "stuff", the look on their faces when you are side by side at the 1000 ft mark is priceless.

[Cooter]

LOL, which is exactly what he says he is going to do.

Been there, tried that. Can't outrun money and stuff bought on time. (Credit). Sooner or later he'll blow his junk up and be askin for warranty work and you'll still be cruising. I'm still beating on the same combo I built almost 20 years ago. Sure there were 5.0 stangs that were faster, but every time I saw em they were replacing yet another engine/trans/rear end. I coulda built three cars for what they blew trying to be king sh*t on turd mtn.