Pro-touring Hellcat project

[erlendch]

Seeking your advice. I have a 69' 440 RT, which I love. But it's so loud and handles like a boat. I get that is part of the charm, BUT I drive it a lot and far, and I basically want it to drive like a modern car. Why wouldn't I just get a modern car then you might ask. Well, I think all new cars looks ugly, no soul, and nothing beats a '69 Charger in terms of looks in my opinion.

Since my current car is in good shape I wouldn't start modifying it. But rather start a new project. Here is one reference: http://www.rkmotorscharlotte.com/sales/inventory/completed_restorations/1968-Dodge-Charger/131948#!/. I too would wanna cut it like this, it's 10.5 inches in front, 10 inches in rear and roof was lowered 2 inches (I would shorten the C pillar too).

For engine I am thinking the new 707-hp 6.2-liter Hellcat. I'd like off course good suspension and brakes. Interior should look like the original though, although I would need buttons for cruise controls and all the modern stuff integrated somehow. I think Pete Filippatos (who I believe is even on this forum) has done an amazing job on his, so here is another reference for you guys so you understand what I am going for: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJ8K7P4EJEA. I would keep it more true to original look tho (except shortening modifications of course).

Reason I am posting all this is that I like to ask advice on who is the best in the country to build this? Btw. I do realize this would cost 6 figures. And I should let you know that I am indeed serious and ready to pay that much (been lucky with my bonus last two years). First rough quote I got was $250k, which was from RK Motors. I have a call with them tomorrow to talk more though, so I can share more then. Does anyone here have experience with those guys?

And do you think it is even realistic to get an old Charger drive like a modern car? Also in terms of noise, including engine and wind noise, plus handling and feel.

Last question.. Any advice on how I review the different companies that build this cars? Not like I can try before I buy. And also curious on how to determine that I am getting a good price? I want the best possible job and ready to pay for it, and don't wanna end up with a company that either cut corners so the car doesn't end up as good as it should be, or that they over charge (or both).

Appreciate your input!

[1965gp]

A local shop here was building a 69 that was on a full frame (roadster shop I think?) with viper motor, Trans and brakes. Saw it completed this past week- looked awesome. I would think if you went with a full frame there is no limit to the handling you could build into it. The shop that started the project was GAP Racing in Houston- not sure who finished it. I woukd talk to shops and the owners of the cars they built to see what their schedules were like.

Only issue I have with the hellcat motor is that it will eventually be dated. For the amount of money you are going to throw at this you could build a fuel injected 383 or 440 that will never look out of place. If you are considering spending a quarter mill on a car- It should be timeless. In my mind the motor looks era correct but has fuel injection under the air cleaner.

If I had that budget it would be full frame, solid rear, big brakes, year one 17's, 6 speed, fuel injected 440, legendary rallye seats, 3 point belts and HID/LED lights. Keep the chrome bumpers and trim- go with a silver or similar color that would wear well. Could also consider a wrap if you wanted graphics on the car- could be easily changed every few years and improve with technology.

[Homerr]

I would definitely ask for several recent references and call them up and get the full skinny on how much things were quoted vs. how much they cost and how they turned out.

I've read a little about people liking Restorations by Julius lately.... http://www.rbyj.com/  I'm sure there are others.

[myk]

$250 large?  Well even with that much of a budget you can expect the final cost to be a lot more.  I applaud your effort and hope you go through with it.  Keep us informed...

[fy469rtse]

There's a lot you can do which dramatically improves the handling and performance of these cars,
In order that I would do that car if it were mine
Us car tool chassis connectors
Hemi torque box's
Bottom plates to front lower control arms , also add the ears to lower control arms near torsion bar pivot,
Tubular upper control arms , so more caster can be put into wheel alignment ,
Or replace k frame with lighter tubular , rack and pinion steering
Upgrade the front sway bar, add rear sway bar,
Go for the full rear upgrade,  I haven't seem it on here yet except for the viper builds , but it could be done by the right people, independent rear suspension with out butchering body frame too much , made fabricated so it could utilise old suspension mounting points ,
Add the above and see how far you want to go , you my find you get half way through this list and are happy enough with upgrades,
By the assembled mega squirt injection system , get that installed , this car will be transformed pro tourer
Or stuff this list and go order that pro tourer

[JR]

I'm all for the pro touring treatment, but I have to ask the obvious question.

If you want to cut, section, chop and shorten the body to mimic this one, and have a six figure budget, and don't mind modifying the car to the point where resale will be a problem, why not buy the black car already completed and skip the whole two year build time?

I'm sure they'd listen to offers on it, considering its been for sale ever since it was completed years ago.

[Mytur Binsdirti]

For 250 large, you can buy a nice 68-70 Hemi Charger, a new Hellcat & still have money left over. If you go the RK route  and spend 250 large with them, you'll have a car that's worth about 65-75 large when you grow tired of it.

[DC_1]

For 250 large, you can buy a nice 68-70 Hemi Charger, a new Hellcat & still have money left over. If you go the RK route  and spend 250 large with them, you'll have a car that's worth about 65-75 large when you grow tired of it.

[six-tee-nine]

For 250 large, you can buy a nice 68-70 Hemi Charger, a new Hellcat & still have money left over. 

[six-tee-nine]

Oh btw, dont fuck up the great lines of a Mopar B body like the guys in the link you posted.

If you want a shortened body, then start with a Challenger.

[marshallfry01]

Oh btw, dont fuck up the great lines of a Mopar B body like the guys in the link you posted.

If you want a shortened body, then start with a Challenger.

[68pplcharger]

For what it's worth I'm building a "Pro Touring" 68 Charger. I kept the old school 440 (highly modified) and Put a ProCarger blower on it and pumped out some impressive horsepower and made the motor very streetable. I used an A833 hemi trans with a gear vendors overdrive unit. The front brakes have six piston calipers on 14" rotors up front and a hydratech hydroboost system. The front suspension is all modified stock or after market replacement, but it's still the stock style up front. The rear has a 94 Z28 rearend (11" rotor and four piston calipers) so I could utilize the torque arm suspension. This car handles like a new vette. The cost doing everything myself was about 45,000. That's the finished price. Not sure what level your skill set is, but thought I would give my 

i.e it can be done relatively cheap compared to the ridiculous price I've seen for these cars if you buy them already done.

[Mike DC]

        
I agree if you've got the budget you should probably make an offer on the modified '68 in the photo.  Nobody has bought it and it's already been repainted once in attempt to increase the appeal.  No telling how far they might come down on that price after several years.  

Even if it's just a starting point it would save you a bundle.  If you don't want the drivetrain it has then you could sell it to offset some of the cost.  If you want a '69 then it would be an easy body conversion.  Etc.




The fact is, heavily modifying a 2nd-gen Charger shape = FAIL.  People have been trying it for almost 50 years and there probably still isn't one example - not ONE - that most people agree came out looking good.  



Think about it - 50 years.  No successful alterations to the basic shape.  

That's like if it was 1982 and nobody had ever yet made a popular '32 Ford custom.  Or it's 1999 and nobody has yet improved the lines of a '49 Merc.  IMO after 50 years of failures it's time to declare it a bad idea.  

[JB400]

That's what I tried to tell the guys over at the Roadster Shop on that 68 abomination they just got done.  Their Camaro's look great, the Charger, not so much.  If you're going to do body mods, keep them small and subtle.  You might get away with doing a chopped roof, but I wouldn't go too drastic with it.

http://www.hotrod.com/news/the-roadster-shop-1968-dodge-charger-is-a-custom-classic-at-sema-2014/

[chargerman69]

Or the last hemi charger http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,114820.0/topicseen.html

For 250 large, you can buy a nice 68-70 Hemi Charger, a new Hellcat & still have money left over. If you go the RK route  and spend 250 large with them, you'll have a car that's worth about 65-75 large when you grow tired of it.

[Fitz73Chrgr]

Holy crap, please don't...

[Kern Dog]

One car on this planet like that black one is too many already. That is a hideous turd. It destroys the flowing lines that these cars are blessed with. I recall seeing it in one or more of the Mopar magazines and simply looking at it pissed me off.
It was  a sacrilege what those assclowns did to that car. Just because you can[/i do extensive custom metalwork doesn't mean that you should......

[Ghoste]

And look at all the success these guys have had selling their Frankenstein's abortion after they spend giant cash and grow tired of it.

[Mytur Binsdirti]

For what it's worth I'm building a "Pro Touring" 68 Charger. I kept the old school 440 (highly modified) and Put a ProCarger blower on it and pumped out some impressive horsepower and made the motor very streetable. I used an A833 hemi trans with a gear vendors overdrive unit. The front brakes have six piston calipers on 14" rotors up front and a hydratech hydroboost system. The front suspension is all modified stock or after market replacement, but it's still the stock style up front. The rear has a 94 Z28 rearend (11" rotor and four piston calipers) so I could utilize the torque arm suspension. This car handles like a new vette. The cost doing everything myself was about 45,000. That's the finished price. Not sure what level your skill set is, but thought I would give my 

i.e it can be done relatively cheap compared to the ridiculous price I've seen for these cars if you buy them already done.

Sounds like fun to me. If I had the fabrication skills, I would certainly consider something like that, but alas, I don't. The point I'm trying to make is that paying a firm to create something like this for you is financial suicide.

[68pplcharger]

For what it's worth I'm building a "Pro Touring" 68 Charger. I kept the old school 440 (highly modified) and Put a ProCarger blower on it and pumped out some impressive horsepower and made the motor very streetable. I used an A833 hemi trans with a gear vendors overdrive unit. The front brakes have six piston calipers on 14" rotors up front and a hydratech hydroboost system. The front suspension is all modified stock or after market replacement, but it's still the stock style up front. The rear has a 94 Z28 rearend (11" rotor and four piston calipers) so I could utilize the torque arm suspension. This car handles like a new vette. The cost doing everything myself was about 45,000. That's the finished price. Not sure what level your skill set is, but thought I would give my 

i.e it can be done relatively cheap compared to the ridiculous price I've seen for these cars if you buy them already done.

Sounds like fun to me. If I had the fabrication skills, I would certainly consider something like that, but alas, I don't. The point I'm trying to make is that paying a firm to create something like this for you is financial suicide.

Agreed

[hatersaurusrex]

That's what I tried to tell the guys over at the Roadster Shop on that 68 abomination they just got done.  Their Camaro's look great, the Charger, not so much.  If you're going to do body mods, keep them small and subtle.  You might get away with doing a chopped roof, but I would go too drastic with it.

http://www.hotrod.com/news/the-roadster-shop-1968-dodge-charger-is-a-custom-classic-at-sema-2014/
[/quote

I don't hate the look of that car - even though the front end is over the top.  The problem isn't the  body panels, it's the boring ass paint.  It looks like someone dipped it in gray navy boat paint and has no blacked out acccent areas or striping to accentuate anything.  It just looks like someone poured gray goo on it.

[68pplcharger]

One car on this planet like that black one is too many already. That is a hideous turd. It destroys the flowing lines that these cars are blessed with. I recall seeing it in one or more of the Mopar magazines and simply looking at it pissed me off.
It was  a sacrilege what those assclowns did to that car. Just because you can[/i do extensive custom metalwork doesn't mean that you should......

Couldn't agree more,I like the cars look the way it is... Just needs more power, overdrive and be able to handle in the corners while providing me with fresh A/C 

[Mike DC]

Back to the original poster's questions,

I know you've got money but this sort of thing is really a money-waster in most cases.  IMO you should look into buying someone's project in this vein that is already partially or wholly done.  Modify or redo it as necessary to fit your wants.

The trend of combining an old Charger & a modern Charger/Chally's undercarriage is 6-7 years old now.  That's enough time to cause some of the builders/owners to be open to selling.  You could probably write a very big check, and get a car that cost the original owner a much bigger check than that.  Not to mention saving yourself a couple years' waiting on a build.  Even if a certain car is not advertised for sale it might be worth making some offers. 


Most of these builds were basically a stock modern Charger/Chally with the older skin on it.  That works.  Take that, have it repainted/redone to suit how you want it to look, and then you are left with souping-up basically a stock modern car (with a ton of "body kit" mods!).  Between the factory Hellcat and the aftermarket stuff that shouldn't be anything too difficult to get done.

[JB400]

That's what I tried to tell the guys over at the Roadster Shop on that 68 abomination they just got done.  Their Camaro's look great, the Charger, not so much.  If you're going to do body mods, keep them small and subtle.  You might get away with doing a chopped roof, but I would go too drastic with it.

http://www.hotrod.com/news/the-roadster-shop-1968-dodge-charger-is-a-custom-classic-at-sema-2014/
[/quote

I don't hate the look of that car - even though the front end is over the top.  The problem isn't the  body panels, it's the boring ass paint.  It looks like someone dipped it in gray navy boat paint and has no blacked out acccent areas or striping to accentuate anything.  It just looks like someone poured gray goo on it.

That is one of my biggest complaints about this particular car.  I like the tail lights, they done a great job on those.  Flushing the rear bumper and painting it body color made the rear end look flat and boring.  Doing the door scoop looks kind of childish, as if they didn't know what to do, but wanted to do something.  Shaving the drip rails looks nice, and gives it a 500 look to it.  The hood looks like they welded a 67 Mustang hood on top of the stock 68 Charger hood, and added the billet inserts.  Why they squared up the front end, and then beveled the leading edge, don't know.  It makes the front end look dull.  Painting the grille surrounds body color makes the grille look more recessed than it is, which loses the custom grille.  The front valance looks ok for what it is.  The hockey stripe is a nice touch, but it's also lost in the dull gray paint, which is a shame.  The Camaro interior needs to go.  It's nicely done, but doesn't fit a Charger.

[erlendch]

Thanks for all the input guys. I realize that the build time might be the biggest issue here. Which is why finding an car that is already built would be better. Any leads there is much appreciated. The problem is that I have quite particular taste and imo most pro-touring cars are tacky and overdone. The '68 from Roadster Shop looks horrendous. To reiterate, I'm looking for a car that drives like a new one, but looks like the original. I do like the shortened '68 from RK Motors tho, and Mike DC's suggestion on making an offer on it is prob my best bet. Although that would require some work; changing front and back to '69 look, gold paint job, black vinyl top, put rear lights under bumper back and original exhaust pipes, ah and rocker panels.. That would pretty much be the look I am going for.