so i had it all wrong in my head

[Stegs]

I want to start this post saying I didn't think it 100% thru, I quite about 60% of the way, and im a idiot


I started a post just before the holiday talking about getting more out of my 440. I got all good responses, and Im thankful for that, but over the weekend I was reading up on some "go fast goodies" and it hit me like a semi truck

What im trying to do is compare my 45 year charger to modern day cars. I was thinking I need more horsepower to keep up with modern cars, need new heads, new cam, new intake, stroker kits, etc.....


Finally I realized "hey, its a 45 year old car, don't compare it to modern cars. Compare it to other 45 year old cars.!!!" Duh right.

Anyway, I wanted to write this post to others who are wanting a faster car to compete with modern day stuff.......remember guys, our cars had their day, we must maintain these for future generations to see


Now, to be clear, I am not against "go fast parts" for our cars. I plan on slowly doing some bolt ons for my car, upgrading the brakes/suspension so its safe, and more enjoyable to drive

I was caught up in the "fast and furious" ideas....need 400-500-600+HP

I realized I must enjoy the car everyday for what it is, slowly upgrade it, not to compete with modern cars, but to upgrade it for safety, and the enjoyment of a 45 year old car!


I know this post really doesn't have a point, but for me it was a way to tell everyone to enjoy what they have now!

[440]

Technology has improved leaps and bounds since these cars left the factory floor. It is easier to make more power now then before, 1hp per cube is pretty easy to obtain these days. Most non performance cars off the floor today make less than 250 Hp and believe it or not many classic cars are also lighter then comparable cars of today.

The driving experience is also different, driving something that is a modern performance car feels desensitized compared to a 30-40 year old car. I love the rawness of an old car, you feel everything while banging through the gears. It's like letting a bomb off. While probably quicker planting your foot to the floor and letting the electronics keep everything in check while changing the radio station isn't my thing.

I recently went through this same thing as you rebuilding an engine for my fairlane. You have to be realistic and know what you want. I wanted 350 hp and 350 lb ft out of a 351 cleveland. While this was quite do-able you also have to take into account how it will be used and practicality. Being a daily driver it had to be reasonably mild, reliable, able to idle in traffic etc. In order to benefit a larger cam the car would need more gear and a different converter etc, again because it was a daily driver I didn't want to throw that kind of money at it.

At the end of the day this will be a tidy little package that should go good. The engine was built with strong low - mid range power to pull the rear gear and utilize the converter. Will it make 350 horses? Maybe not but it's built to work as a package. A matched 300hp package will most likely go better then a mismatched 400+ hp combo.

[Stegs]

i was sent a article from a member on here

It was called "440 resto to rad"

It was done by hot rod and they took a bone stock 440 and did some very simple bolt ons....cam, intake, headers and carb

i think they upgraded the valve train too but they ended up with over 450hp with just bolt on items


now i know that was a very fresh 440, but still....simple things really woke up the 440....with factory heads!


thats what im going to do slowly, i printed the article and that will give me a nice boost, while maintaining reliability

no, it might not 500+ at the wheels, but i know what my stock 440 will do, i cant imagine having a 18% (according to article) boost in HP with BOLT ONS!

just imagine if you used better heads!

[Charger-Bodie]

Unless you plan to race it reLly don't need to be wild. It's like my HEMI in my 69 . It's there cause I want to open the hood and see a HEMI. That makes me smile.

[Stegs]

Unless you plan to race it reLly don't need to be wild. It's like my HEMI in my 69 . It's there cause I want to open the hood and see a HEMI. That makes me smile.

nope, just a cruiser....thats why im thinking bolt ons to improve on what i already have

I really am getting more interest in suspension and brakes, doing a pro touring car setup.....thats where my interest is now....

[myk]

It takes more than dollars and horsepower to make a "fast and furious" car, no matter what era the vehicle is from; that is entirely dependent on the driver behind the wheel.  There are men in this forum who actually race highly modified 2nd gen Chargers with the skills to run circles around lesser drivers in more modern, presumably faster performance cars.  

If there's one piece of advice to give to anyone, be it in cars or life it's this: don't worry too much about the guy next to you and trying to "one-up" them; worry about doing whatever makes YOU happy instead.  So what if the modifications you plan on doing still leave your car short of competing against other cars?  You could go out and buy a new Hellcat Mopar tomorrow and still be out-classed by a better driver and/or a newer, faster car.   Unless you're professionally racing your car it's not worth worrying about.  Spend more time worrying about your own car and how you want it to be so it can satisfy the only person that matters at the end of the day: YOU...

[Stegs]

It takes more than dollars and horsepower to make a "fast and furious" car, no matter what era the vehicle is from; that is entirely dependent on the driver behind the wheel.  There are men in this forum who actually race highly modified 2nd gen Chargers with the skills to run circles around lesser drivers in more modern, presumably faster performance cars.  

If there's one piece of advice to give to anyone, be it in cars or life it's this: don't worry too much about the guy next to you and trying to "one-up" them; worry about doing whatever makes YOU happy instead.  So what if the modifications you plan on doing still leave your car short of competing against other cars?  You could go out and buy a new Hellcat Mopar  tomorrow and still be out-classed by a better driver and/or a newer, faster car.  Spend more time worrying about your own car and how you want it to be so it can satisfy the only person that matters: YOU...

i agree, i was so focused on getting a 45 year old car up to par with todays stuff

i realized now what i want to do, what direction i want to go!

most important is to enjoy the car how it is now, and as i slowly turn it into what i want

[twodko]

IMO hiPo heads, dual plane manifold, new carb to match and
a set of quality headers. Bolt on HP.

[Dino]

Good for you!  Now you can focus on what really counts, enjoy the car for what it is.  And sure you can still make it quite impressive flying down the road which reminds me of something else: invest in really good brakes.   

I am a firm believer that the part have to be matched, which is not the caze with my own car curtosy of the previous owner.  So I'm getting it back to near stock with a slightly hotter than stock cam, and I'm keeping the headers for now.  I think it'll be a much more enjoyable car for my kind of driving.

[440]

Good luck removing the headers, that's why they're probably still on the car  

[don duick]

my 70 charger is great to drive as long as it is on a straight road.

[fy469rtse]

You can improve there handling greatly, but I like to improve on it all,
Chassis stiffness helps greatly
Read in the suspension upgrades thread , lots of proven mods for these cars

[Stegs]

You can improve there handling greatly, but I like to improve on it all,
Chassis stiffness helps greatly
Read in the suspension upgrades thread , lots of proven mods for these cars

yea i got to spend some time in that section here in the next few months

Id love to find a "bolt on" kit that offer better handling for my car....lots of different setups, im kind of confused

and yea I got to figure out how to upgrade my car to disc brakes....love to do all 4 corners with a better suspension/handling.....

lots of reading ahead for me....

[440]

Not sure if the swaybar on my car is stock or not but it's the biggest damn swaybar I've seen on any passenger car.

Just a good set of shocks and swaybars do wonders for handling without going crazy. I was surprised the ride quality of my buddys car with bilstein shocks and hotchkis bars. The package was described as a "euro ride"

[moparnation74]

Personally, the single most important upgrade you can do is brakes.  Then I would dwell into suspension upgrades.

[stripedelete]

Sounds like you have optimized Enjoyment:Money:Time ratio.   

[HPP]

You can improve there handling greatly, but I like to improve on it all,
Chassis stiffness helps greatly
Read in the suspension upgrades thread , lots of proven mods for these cars

yea i got to spend some time in that section here in the next few months

Id love to find a "bolt on" kit that offer better handling for my car....lots of different setups, im kind of confused

and yea I got to figure out how to upgrade my car to disc brakes....love to do all 4 corners with a better suspension/handling.....

lots of reading ahead for me....

Firm Feel, Hotchkis, and PST all offer bolt on handling kits. Most parts can be done in stages to minimize the finacial hit. But, without a strong foundation, none of them are fully effective. 

[Stegs]

Sounds like you have optimized Enjoyment:Money:Time ratio.   

the nice part is i have time to slowly work on it as needed....i will try each spring to do somethign with it. This spring im going to do a shift kit and trans cooler.

when that is done, im going to have it professionally tuned, to make sure im getting as close to 100% out of what i have.

That will probably be it for this year

next year maybe do a disc brake conversion.....maybe do some bolt ons to the motor...who knows

[Cooter]

I did see a stock block 440 (heavily messaged), go 900 HP before it grenaded.

Thing you gotta understand is, no matter how much more power that over priced Hellcat this, or Shelby that has on your car, they ain't stopping those guys and asking for a picture. These cars will always be cooler than, command more money as time goes on, and cherished over higher HP cars of today.

Just be content we are cooler.

[odcics2]

Good luck removing the headers, that's why they're probably still on the car  

S A W S  A L L  !!!! 

[69wannabe]

I did see a stock block 440 (heavily messaged), go 900 HP before it grenaded.

Thing you gotta understand is, no matter how much more power that over priced Hellcat this, or Shelby that has on your car, they ain't stopping those guys and asking for a picture. These cars will always be cooler than, command more money as time goes on, and cherished over higher HP cars of today.

Just be content we are cooler.

Amen Cooter!!!! It doesn't have to be a fire breathing monster for the car to get plenty of attention. I always get the thumbs up and people always waving and complimenting the car every time I go for a drive. My old car is nothing special mostly a stock resto with some minor upgrades, disc brakes on the front that work good, R/T torsion bars on front with R/T leaf springs on the rear. The 493 is not built to ridiculous specs and the cam sounds good and I can still cruise around in forth gear and run 35 to 45 mph very smoothly. Does it run and drive like a new challenger?? No but it is a very good running and very tight driving old car. Planning on doing some subframe connectors soon but am I happy with the car? Yes and even when I have been burned out and hopeless I never thought about letting it go. To me these cars are not a burden but a blessing!!! Us as owners with a close to finished or just starting a project couldn't be nothing but happy just to own one of these old cars because lots of guys I know and see when i'm out driving mine around say that the charger is their dream car!!!

[Stegs]

I did see a stock block 440 (heavily messaged), go 900 HP before it grenaded.

Thing you gotta understand is, no matter how much more power that over priced Hellcat this, or Shelby that has on your car, they ain't stopping those guys and asking for a picture. These cars will always be cooler than, command more money as time goes on, and cherished over higher HP cars of today.

Just be content we are cooler.

Amen Cooter!!!! It doesn't have to be a fire breathing monster for the car to get plenty of attention. I always get the thumbs up and people always waving and complimenting the car every time I go for a drive. My old car is nothing special mostly a stock resto with some minor upgrades, disc brakes on the front that work good, R/T torsion bars on front with R/T leaf springs on the rear. The 493 is not built to ridiculous specs and the cam sounds good and I can still cruise around in forth gear and run 35 to 45 mph very smoothly. Does it run and drive like a new challenger?? No but it is a very good running and very tight driving old car. Planning on doing some subframe connectors soon but am I happy with the car? Yes and even when I have been burned out and hopeless I never thought about letting it go. To me these cars are not a burden but a blessing!!! Us as owners with a close to finished or just starting a project couldn't be nothing but happy just to own one of these old cars because lots of guys I know and see when i'm out driving mine around say that the charger is their dream car!!!

exactly..slowly, i will upgrade the car...but will enjoy it as i work on it

[500Jon]

Just be happy to drive a 45 year old car!

If the Eurocrats get their way they will ban them!

You cannot just upgrade an engine!
There's transmission, axle, brakes, suspension too!!!

Get two cars, one to drive/cruise enjoy.
The other one a stripped out looney-mobile that looks the same!

How fast do you want to go???

[Stegs]

Just be happy to drive a 45 year old car!

If the Eurocrats get their way they will ban them!

You cannot just upgrade an engine!
There's transmission, axle, brakes, suspension too!!!

Get two cars, one to drive/cruise enjoy.
The other one a stripped out looney-mobile that looks the same!

How fast do you want to go???

how fast, nothing above 70 with stock brakes

its how fast i go from 0-70 is what i WAS concerned about....but then i realized to look at the car as a driver/project. I can drive it anytime i want, and work on it when i want!.. Best of both worlds!

[440]

You can gain a little bit quickly by a cam, intake, exhaust and a good ignition system which is all weekend bolt on stuff, but there is no quick way to make big power without a total engine/drivetrain  rebuild.

Anything that doesn't need to be sent off for a major overhaul or fabrication is a weekend project.  The more prepared you are the quicker the project.

These cars have character and you learn to love the idiosyncrasies. I much prefer driving a 70's car than a modern car.