True or False? Page 64 of mopar performance. circa 1978

[500Jon]

The Daytona Grand National Sock Car Race,
On July 4th had four ''RB'' powered cars on the qualifiying grid!
They were specially-prepared 426 wedge blocks with ported 440 head castings!!!

Chrysler went on to win 1-2-3-4 Whoopee!!!
Year in question, maybe 1971???

With or without 440 heads???

500Jon

[odcics2]

With.    How much porting, we don't know.    Whatever it looked like would have had to pass Nascar inspection and resemble stock!

I have a valve cover from the #6 Plymouth that Pete Hamilton drove in that race. 

The hemi was too restricted compared to wedge heads.   

[thehemikid]

Which casting #'s did they use?

[500Jon]

Maybe just maybe, Oval port Heads???

[Ghoste]

Wouldn't they have to be approved as stock?

[500Jon]

Who really know's what happened back then?

Racers-Reunion says that 1234 was acheived at the Firecracker 400 by four wedge headed Mopars!
With so many races and so little documentation how could the 'powers to be' keep control.
Everyone was building prototype engines to win against the hemi's.
Bill French tried everything to stop Factory backed teams getting all the GLORY!!!
But even the lesser monied Mopar teams had to go 426 wedge to save on costs!
With Hemi cars going nearly 250mph on the straights it was Mopar Mayhem!!!
The gradual change to 358 smallblocks was inevitable.
40 years later and Mother Mopar is no longer at the races!

Glad I saw some Dodge Nascars when I did Lol.
5J

[Ghoste]

I care. 

[500Jon]

I know you care Mr.Ghoste!

But how many Wingcars were left to rot in fields, backyards and Junkyards?
I heard a good story about an LA Daytona with Hemi enginess was left for over ten years at a dealership with nose damage that couldn't be repaired even at a main Dodge dealership!
It seems the factory backup for road-going Wingers was poor at best?
In the modern throwaway era we live in now thats fairly commonplace, but back in 1969 man was walking on the moon and we all dreamed of a Jetson lifestyle.
I THINK THE PROBLEM LIES IN THE APPEARANCE OF WINGCARS!!!
Just too outragious for most tastes.
Although they were built as Roadcars, they were a step too far for most Folks.

All we can do now is thank those who laboured through thick and thin to keep the Wingcar legend alive!
This seems even more relevant now with Mother Mopar missing in Action!!!

[wingcar]

A lot of people would point and laugh at my Superbird back in the late 70's.  Many though the car looked funny and wondered who in his right mind would own one of those things......

(I knew something they didn't back then, so perhaps the real joke was on them....)

[HPP]

A lot of people would point and laugh at my Superbird back in the late 70's.  Many though the car looked funny and wondered who in his right mind would own one of those things......

(I knew something they didn't back then, so perhaps the real joke was on them....)

I used to do that. My dad did point out that they were a special interest car and not for everyone but still thought their best attribute was the ability to locate them quickly in a crowded parking lot.

I still respect their historical significance, would love to have one if I inherited it, but in all honesty, would never pursue getting one over other models.

[Aero426]

Bill French tried everything to stop Factory backed teams getting all the GLORY!!!
But even the lesser monied Mopar teams had to go 426 wedge to save on costs!

There would be no cost savings to the teams in going back to the wedge design.    The only reason it was attempted was the rule change that the wedge got a larger plate opening.     Hundreds of race Hemi engines were in circulation and had trickled down to the independents.    If anything, the better funded Mopar teams had the benefit of the wedge engines before the little guys.    The little guys ran the Hemis they had. 

[500Jon]

Interesting point there Aero426.

Petty passed on the smaller wedges due to high costs and higher failure rate.
But I don't see any mention of him going Bigblock wedge?
I'm thinking more of the Hemi failure rates in both Nascar and drag racing combined.
Hemi's were hard to find in the early seventies, which prompted Bob Mullen in 1971 to invent the Donovan 417.
Then Keith Black redesigned the 426 hemi for drag racers.

I suppose I am comparing the cost of 426 Hemi today $15,000 to a stout 440 wedge $5000!
What were the prices back in 1970 for each?
Mother Mopar made over a MILLION 440 heads, how many Hemi's???
5J

[Ghoste]

I thought the 383 was over a million but the 440 was quite a bit fewer?

[Aero426]

Petty passed on the smaller wedges due to high costs and higher failure rate.

There was no small block engine ready to race in 1971.   The 305 engine that Brooks ran at Daytona was an experiment and a starting point.   It would not have worked at the smaller tracks.    Bud Moore led the way to the small block in 1972 with the Ford engine.   Mopar followed shortly behind.   The Hemi was gradually phased out by Petty, but still was used at certain tracks where they felt it had an advantage. 

But I don't see any mention of him going Bigblock wedge?

I thought that is what we are talking about here.

I'm thinking more of the Hemi failure rates in both Nascar and drag racing combined.

In NASCAR, the immediate reason to look outside the Hemi head were favorable carburetion rules for older style engines. This applied to Ford as well.

Hemi's were hard to find in the early seventies, which prompted Bob Mullen in 1971 to invent the Donovan 417.
Then Keith Black redesigned the 426 hemi for drag racers.

At the time the big block wedge heads went back to NASCAR, the Hemi was still in production.     

I suppose I am comparing the cost of 426 Hemi today $15,000 to a stout 440 wedge $5000!
What were the prices back in 1970 for each?

A new NASCAR Hemi from Ray Nichels would have had a street price of a few thousand dollars back then.    Gently used or rebuilt engines less.

Mother Mopar made over a MILLION 440 engines, how many Hemi's???

In 1971, perhaps there were a couple hundred Hemi engines in service for NASCAR racing at any given time.   That number might even be high.   Most teams did not have as many engines one might think.   The point being there was never a need for high production capacity for the Hemi. 

[500Jon]

Wicked replies there AeroDuDe!

I must do more homework before going on an aero site methinks?
In 1971 you could buy a house in London UK for $2000 lol!

If Mother Mopar was looking for an advantage at the tracks then a 'W2' head would have helped.(Bigblock and Smallblock)
When you say 'hemi phased out' over what time period?

Maybe there were a Million 440 heads then?
Even though they were the same as 383 and 400's LoL.

If it wasn't for Petty's Ford encounter in 1969, Superbird's and 426 Hemi's,,, Plymouth would never have won a season at Nascar!
Our Lord moves in mysterious ways???

[6PakBee]

According to the old DC performance book, through 1971 over 3 million 383's had been produced and over 3/4 million 440's were produced.

[500Jon]

Nice replies Guys!

If the 426 wedge was outta production in 1965 how would it be eligible in 1970???
I think it would have been a (long stroke) 383 short 'B' block with a turned down 440 crank.
Or a 440 'RB' with a sleeved down block at 4.250?

Obviously all race engines were standard bore only, overboring was strictly illegal.
All the worn 426 hemi blocks must have been reused by Drag racers?
All the ex-race blocks I've found have all been +60!

5J

[Ghoste]

It would be eligible because it still met the 7 liter cube limit as established by the rules would it not?

[Aero426]

Obviously all race engines were standard bore only, overboring was strictly illegal.
All the worn 426 hemi blocks must have been reused by Drag racers?
All the ex-race blocks I've found have all been +60!

Running an .020 overbore in NASCAR was typical.  This gives you 429.xxx CI against the limit of 430 CI stipulated by rule.

[500Jon]

Hi Guys,

I thought the engine had to be in current production in 1969/70.
Obviously the 426 were superceeded by the 440 in 1966?
I have two 1965 440 blocks at the moment.
Were 426's used in something till the 70's?
5J

[Aero426]

This is an old post from Bruce Lear (learical1).     

For 1971 (at the beginning of the season):
7 liter engines = restrictor plates (wedge heads bigger holes in the plate, hemi heads smaller holes)
6 liter (366 CID) = no restrictor plates
5 liter (305 CID) = no restrictor plates [required size for limited production Aero cars]

Ford had run the 427 Tunnelport as recently as early 1969, and there was already plenty of development on this engine, so it was a quick and easy step to return to the 427 from the Boss 429.  Now, Mopar hadn't run the 426 Wedge since 1963, and they were way behind the 8 ball.  Hemi blocks, like the side-oiler Ford 427's, had cross-bolted main bearing caps for strength at hi RPM's; 426 Wedge blocks were not cross bolted.  The Mopar teams welded up the Hemi block (where the stud from the bottom of the intake port passes through) to take a bolt.  From what I read, the Mopar teams used 440-6bbl head almost straight out of the box, not the Max Wedge heads because the new intake manifold had the smaller ports.  

The Ford boys screamed that Mopar never made a cross bolted wedge block, Mopar said Ford never built a street tunnel port engine.  Nascar told them both to shut up and race.