lets talk new 440 heads

[Stegs]

ok guys, quick question

with the holidays approaching, and a Christmas bonus on the way, I want to buy a new set of heads for my car

its a bone stock 440, new 600cfm edelbrock carb and firecore ignition....eventually (years down the road I want to add a little bigger mopar purple cam

What heads would you guys suggest for me? or should I just have mine ported and polished?

I want something that will work both now being stock, and later when I add a little bigger cam

Would it make sense to have new heads put on or just have mine worked?


please give me your input

or would my money be better spent on a new intake manifold?

[c00nhunterjoe]

What bottom end is in it? I will assume an 8-9:1 motor. Since you want to stay "stockish" with a mild cam, I will say stealth or edelbrocks.

[BSB67]

Well, I'm probably the only one that will tell you that....."it depends".  It depends on you.  You can make 500 hp with a factory head.  At the end of the day, you will probably spend more on these than on aftermarket heads if you are looking at this level of potential power.  If you have 250 hp today and want 350 tomorrow, you can use the factory head.  Or maybe you like the idea of using the factory head, you just might choose to do so, just because.  Everyone thinks they want 600 hp, but I'm not too sure they really know what that means.  A factory head, without professional porting can make about 500 hp, and move a B body down the track fast enough to require a roll bar (i.e. 11.50).

If you have no personal loyalty to the factory head, and want to leave the door open for more than 500 hp, the easiest, low cost solution is an aftermarket aluminum head.  There are like 5 different ones that are similar.  If you have a low compression engine, I would look at the small chamber Edelbrock head, or the yet to be available TrickFlow (Spring 2015).  But you also need to consider the future case too.  Specifically, what cu in and what piston in the future case motor.  That might effect the chamber choice today.

So, what do you have, and what is the plan?

[polywideblock]

make sure you look at whether the accessory holes have been drilled and taped in whatever you get   
  its really hard to bolt everything back on when there's nowhere to bolt it to   

[RallyeMike]

.... and do you want to run stock exhaust manifolds, or are you open to switching to headers now or in the future?

[myk]

make sure you look at whether the accessory holes have been drilled and taped in whatever you get   
  its really hard to bolt everything back on when there's nowhere to bolt it to   

Is that something that regularly happens?

[Cooter]

Stealth heads with a newer aluminum intake. I'd spend the bucks and have heads CNC'D.

[Stegs]

sorry guys, should have gave you more info

the 440 is stock right now, stock bottom end, stock pistons, stock heads, stock everything (but the carb)

My goal is to make a good "dependable" cruiser. Car will never see the drag strip I don't think, and if it does it wont be taken serious. It will be done in fun

I don't need 600hp, what I have now is fine, I just want to improve upon the 440 and make HP while doing it. I want to make HP in a dependable fashion, meaning I don't want issues.

I want known bolt on items that are known to wake up the 440.

lets say I want somewhere around 400 HP to the rear wheels?

is that possible with factory heads port and polish?

can I do that with the factory cam? factory intake?

I guess what I really want to know is what combos make what HP?


lets say I want to add another 50-75 hp to the rear wheels? what will do that?

lets say I want to make 100 more to the wheels....what will do that



Im all for keeping what I have (saving money) and just modding it, but if I port/polish the heads and it adds 15HP....probably not worth it...

and again, I want everything to "work together"....and make dependable power without any issues



one last thing, I want my car to sound like this (talking about the cam with a little bump  )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuP3p338uSE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZrXX3HdxVY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpEdypMHKWo (especially this one.....WOOOOOOOOOOOO)

[Ghoste]

400 to 500 horse at the rear wheels is considerably more than a stock 440 is putting back there so you will need to get ready to open your wallet.

[Stegs]

400 to 500 horse at the rear wheels is considerably more than a stock 440 is putting back there so you will need to get ready to open your wallet.

well tell me what is possible?

If I port and polish the heads that I have, add a mild cam and do a aluminum intake, what kind of HP increase should I expect? I would assume id want to bump compression too right?

is it worth it or no?

im a jeep guy, and horsepower is all new to me   I don't know what to expect in relationship to cost

with jeeps I dealt with a cast iron straight 6 that made very little power, but still managed go like crazy in a little Cherokee unibody!

[Ghoste]

Very rough estimate but if you wanted 450 at the rear wheels you likely need 550 from the engine.  Others here are way way way more qualified to talk about that than I am though.  But going with that as rough figure there are a few builds in the proven combos section that duplicate that without becoming exotic by any means.
Are you opposed to a stroker?  Could be the cheapest and easiest way to get there.

[Stegs]

Very rough estimate but if you wanted 450 at the rear wheels you likely need 550 from the engine.  Others here are way way way more qualified to talk about that than I am though.  But going with that as rough figure there are a few builds in the proven combos section that duplicate that without becoming exotic by any means.
Are you opposed to a stroker?  Could be the cheapest and easiest way to get there.

no, not oppose, but I think you might be confused. I was talking about new cylinder heads b/c I thought that was the best way to make power.

Then, someone said you can make power with stock heads, so that's when I started talking about port/polish heads, intake and maybe a cam


I don't need 500 or 600 hp

I want to increase the power but do it as reliable as I can (and prefer the cheapest)


so, to clear things up.

If I were to redo the factory heads, and a nice intake (whichever one is proven on the 440) and a mild cam (something a little bigger than stock, but not overkill)

what kind of power should I expect? is it a noticeable increase or is it not?

[Challenger340]

Sorry Stegs.... simply not sufficient information on the current Engine to make any valid recomendations.

"Stock" 1969 440 Pistons were .060" down the hole
"stock" 1969 440 6-pack Pistons were only .020" down the hole(W/4 Flycuts)
"Stock" 1974 440 Pistons were .090" down the hole
and
by 1978 "Stock"440 Pistons were .110" down the hole ?

Heads can range anywhere from 78-80 CC's .... right on up to over 90 CC's depending upon year ?

Which,
depending upon what "stock" heads are on there currently.... you could be anywhere from 7.7:1 Comp Ratio....  up to 10:1 Comp Ratio currently ?
and moving forward with NO IDEA where you are currently for Compression Ratio....
is just no way to select ANYTHING, especially Aluminum Heads, little-lown what to do with the Iron heads if you keep them, without a high probability of wasting your money,
especially,
when it comes to selecting ANY Cylinder head or Cam change in a "current" bottom end setup ?

What year "stock" 440 engine ?
Pull a valve cover.... What casting # 440 Head ?

[BSB67]

Actually, there was only the 2.03" Compression height piston for 69.  Same used in the 69 six pack.  70 and 71 had the 2.06" height piston w/ reliefs.  But we're splitin' hairs.

I also think it can be even worse, as I believe that there is a 1.910" CH piston, putting it about 0.160" in dah hole.

[1974dodgecharger]

Everyone's advice is dead on!!!!  My 383 does 400 to the wheels and 500 engine dyno....so a 440 should get it up even more.

[moparnation74]

If I am reading this correctly you want a little more lopey sound, along with some increase in HP, reliability, on a budget, and for cruising on the street.

Is your current combo not reliable?

Are you running stock manifolds?  If not you can go with long tubes and a new muffler for better sound.

Maybe a cam upgrade depending on your configuration but if your current combo is reliable, why change it?

If you have a good tuning shop, you could get it dynoed tuned.

What distributor are you running?  Maybe that can be upgraded and tuned.

As far as heads the members that chimed in here have pointed you in the right direction but if your current combo is reliable, why mess with it.

With any increases in horsepower there are sacrifices you will have to make.  My suggestions above can keep you on a budget and retain/improve your reliability.  I would never sacrifice reliability for horsepower any day but that opinion is only pertaining to cruisers.

[BSB67]

Ok, to the OP, I think you can see that you will not get a "....do these 4 things and you will make 450 hp...." answer.

Like I said earlier, if you want 500 hp, that is one answer, if you want to go from 250  to 350 hp, different possible answer.  The details of what you have now make the difference.  Maybe you don't know.

So, let me say couple of things here.  

1) You keep saying rear wheel hp, you do realize people generally talk about corrected engine dyno hp, not RWHP.  So right away, you've added 100 hp to your goal talking RWHP verses engine HP.  To put it in perspective for you, If you have a stockish 440 with an unknown history, or it is original,  It will probably have less than 220 RWHP.

2) No one can tell you what to do for 400 hp without knowing what you have now.  BUT, it probably does not matter.  This I can tell you.  If you remove your current heads, have them reworked and comp valve grind, update your cam, and add a decent intake and carb, you add 80 hp, it will be noticeable, you'll be happy, and you'll probably spend $3,000.

[Stegs]

sorry guys

engine is a 69 or 70 440 out of another charger

the original 383 was blown up by the original owner 

anyways, yea bone stock 69 or 70 block, I was told buy the guy I bought it from that when he put it in it was a 70 440

im not sure what heads are on there now....where/how would I determine that?


also, Im running a firecore ignition....car runs great, has a new carb.....and is very reliable....


What I meant is I don't want to add parts that cost a lot of money and end up with more problems than its worth

lets just assume that I have your "typical" 440, stock compression


Now I want to throw this out there....lets just forget all the post above for 1 min

Lets say in the spring, I have the 440 tore down and freshened up.

do all the rings maybe
all new gaskets

would a fresh motor make sense to do? would that add power?

only down fall is I think if you go that far, that's the time to add a new cam and intake etc...

[gsniegow]

I'm no expert by any means but I will share my experience with you and offer up some advice.

Last year I purchased a top end kit from Edelbrock, new headers, carb, MSD ignition, rear gear, rockers, and more for my 383.  Working with a friend using desktop dyno software I made my purchase expecting a particular result.

Once the speed shop completed the installation and dyno tuned the car.  I was really depressed with the results.  They were nowhere near what the software predicted.  Why?  Well, I left the bottom end alone and I now realize I need some work on the bottom end as well.  This mistake was mine because I didn't work with a reputable builder.  I didn't seek their hands on advice.  Rather I gave direct instructions to the speed shop.  They never questioned me, they just collected my money.  LOTS and LOTS of money.  Looking back, I probably should have done the bottom end and waited on some of the top end.  IDK - Like I said I'm no expert here.  Actually quite the opposite!  LOL

My hindsight / advice is this...  It may not be a good idea to approach this like I did.  Rather, if you are having someone do the work for you then I suggest you find a reputable shop.  Bring the Charger to them and let them diagnose and make recommendations.  If you are on a budget, then let them know and come up with a plan together on how to best achieve your goals.  They may suggest heads or some other items that need to be done in order to truly recognize the benefits of the heads, like a bottom end.  I spent allot of money and while she performs much better than she did, I'm still disappointed in the results.  My only saving grace is knowing I have already done allot of the work already. 

[Dino]

Rebuilding to stock specs may give it more power if the engine is a little tired.  Personally I'm removing my go fast parts to enjoy the reliability of a stock engine again.  My cam will be roughly the same as stock, maybe a tad hotter and I may keep my performer intake because going back to the 71 stock intake will likely not  make it run better anyway.  

If you really want power you'll have to go full out, if you just want a strong reliable engine then I'd stick to stock or close to it.

[moparnation74]

If it runs great and is reliable, why even tear it down?

I do understand your search for HP on a budget while keeping it stock looking.  

My next question is what's your budget?

That will also give everyone an idea on which way to guide you.  The last motor I had done, the head work, mild can, and the standard machine work, cost around 3500 with the motor assembled.

[Stegs]

yea I think I have a budget around 2000-2500

that's why I initially thought new heads

But yes my motor is reliable as can be, runs great, it might be a little tired, but it don't show it or act like it

Judging by the last posts, I think what I may do is do little odds and ends until I save up enough to go all out (stroker most likely)

In the spring I will take it to a engine shop and see what they can do for me, and get an idea on cost

Honestly im thinking what would help with a stock motor is a new intake (thinking rpm edelbrock) and a shift kit for the 727...

I think that in itself will help some, but we will see in the spring

Thanks for the info guys, glad I didn't spend a bunch of money and end up disappointed !

[rt green]

you might want to think about putting that cash into some suspension up grades. with that budget, you could do pretty good. would make a different car out of it.

[myk]

you might want to think about putting that cash into some suspension up grades. with that budget, you could do pretty good. would make a different car out of it.

Amen to that...

[Challenger340]

sorry guys

engine is a 69 or 70 440 out of another charger

the original 383 was blown up by the original owner 

anyways, yea bone stock 69 or 70 block, I was told buy the guy I bought it from that when he put it in it was a 70 440

im not sure what heads are on there now....where/how would I determine that?


also, Im running a firecore ignition....car runs great, has a new carb.....and is very reliable....


What I meant is I don't want to add parts that cost a lot of money and end up with more problems than its worth

lets just assume that I have your "typical" 440, stock compression


Now I want to throw this out there....lets just forget all the post above for 1 min

Lets say in the spring, I have the 440 tore down and freshened up.

do all the rings maybe
all new gaskets

would a fresh motor make sense to do? would that add power?

only down fall is I think if you go that far, that's the time to add a new cam and intake etc...

Just my 
You can NOT "assume a typical 440 stock compression"... based upon what some guy told you, or even from the casting date on the Block iteself... that is a recipe for DISASTER !
IMO,
PULL a Cylinder Head...... and VERIFY the Piston Height to the deck @ TDC
or,
at the very LEAST.... PULL a Valve Cover and get a CASTING # off a Cylinder Head.

You can NOT assume "stock" anything by year of something 45 years later !.... especially with available Cylinder pressure to work with as it relates even to bolt-ons for enhanced power, wasting your time.
Even if it is a 1969 or 1970 Block, it could have smogger Pistons in it... no way to tell.

Don't WASTE your money... if that is your intent ?
Quality of the "imput" information here, is directly proportional to the quality of the "output" answers.
Garbage IN = GARBAGE out !
ASSUME on anything, especially with engines...  as the saying goes.... makes an ASS of U and ME

If you are at all serious about wanting to spend money wisely for BEST results in your 440.... get to work acquiring the RIGHT information... before contemplating spending nickel-one !