Looking to buy a rifle. First time gun owner, need advice, opinions.

[charge69]

I agree with redmist!  Get a Colt 6920.    Got to say a un-bubba'd SKS or a Mosin-Nagant would be a nice choice if a 30 caliber weapon was your choice. Both the SKS and Mosin-Nagant with 1000 rnds. of ammo would probably come in under 1K but, you are messing with the weight factor again!

[John_Kunkel]

Nice try, John but, THAT is not a FN FAL.  It is an IMBEL built on a surplus parts kit.  Even this "parts kit gun" is pushing the 1K mark after shipping, and local FFL transfer fees. That thing barely resembles a real FN and you may count on your life with an Atlantic Firearms parts-kit gun but, not me.   

Since the FAL (FN or no) was originally select fire, 99.99% of the FAL's in civilian hands are, by definition, kit guns. Ownership of a full auto receiver/bolt is highly restricted so the original FN receivers are now long gone. There are so many variations of the FAL (90 countries used them) it's impossible to say that any particular gun "barely resembles a real" because one would have to ask "which real one?" My Atlantic Imbel FAL runs just fine, pic below is it.

And, back on subject, the OP isn't looking for a restoration-correct museum piece but for something to "reach out and touch" and the FAL has been doing that quite well for seventy years. 

[bordin34]

Or if you want to have some fun, make your own AK-74 or AK-47 from a flat. The 5.45x39 and 7.62x39 round is still cheap even the new manufactured stuff.

[charge69]

Nice rifle, John.  So, I guess I can buy a rifle like yours and carry just as much ammo as an AR (colt 6920) as yours pictured!  I, absolutely love .308 as a cartridge but, that IMBEL copy, as well as an original FN, is certainly no more accurate as any decent AR at any practical range and I'll take a Colt 6920 at 5 1/2 lbs. empty any day over an Imbel, especially if my budget is 1K or less.

My opinion only, but, a "newby", selecting a new and first, rifle would be much better served by a Colt 6920 although they would have to look around a little as Colt hasn't made a 6920 for a couple of years.

bordin34: making an AKS patterned rifle by a "newby" might be a little too intimidating for most people. I, myself, would not trust an AKS made with a parts kit and put together by an individual.  Just me! True, the cartridge is more affordable than the .556x45 or, especially, the 7.62x51, but, buying a SKS in 7.62x39 or AKS made up already by a Communist Country in that or 5.56x39 probably is the way to go if you like 30 caliber better.

[redmist]

They still make Colt 6920's   so much so, that you can buy one at Walmart.

http://answers.walmart.com/answers/1336/product/21677322/questions.htm

http://www.colt.com/Catalog/Rifles/LE6920Series.aspx


In fact you can buy the SOCOM version of the 6920 right now for $899 with free shipping!

https://www.gunbuyer.com/p-58950-colt-mfg-le6920-socom-16-with-knights-armament-quad-rail.aspx#.VFBdkPnF9MV

I would stay out of the AK-74 game as the 7N6 Ammo has been banned from importation, and it is driving cost of ammo up on that platform.

[stripedelete]

6920 LE     grab-a-gun was just  under $900+ $5 shipping.  Went up about 100 after Canada and school shootings.
Magpul version still cheap.

[charge69]

A new 6920LE would definitely be my choice now.   

My mistake about saying Colt does not produce them anymore. Now, the 6920 is a whole series of rifles.  I was thinking they do not produce the original 6920LE in the original configuration.  I got mine back in early 2008 and it has the A3 receiver with the removable handle that holds the rear sight assembly. It, apparently, isn't available this way today. This configuration is listed at 5.9 lbs. and is a full pound lighter than today's 6920LE listed at 6.9 lbs.

The 6920 is now a "series" of AR's made by Colt with 5 different configurations. Get whatever configuration you can buy right now at the cheapest configuration they sell. You cannot go wrong!

If it were me, I would search out a rifle bought in 2007 or 2008 and, maybe just before the Sandy Hook incident!  These people paid a lot for theirs and, with prices falling to more reasonable levels, they just might "take a hit" on the price just to get out from under it! Depending on where you live, buying from an individual would stop the paper trail of ownership at the person BEFORE you at the very least.  The .GOV doesn't need to know how many firearms I own and what they are!!

[myk]

Lots of choices for what you want.  I, probably would buy a Colt AR as they are cheap right now. Second choice would be a S & W AR but an older Marlin 30-30 or Winchester 30-30 could receive serious consideration.

If you are really buying for a SHTF situation, remember, lighter is better and all that "tacticool" stuff just adds weight! A bare-bones AR is always going to be my choice!

Can't argue with that one.  Go with Colt and go forth with confidence.  An A2 configuration with iron sights and a traditional hand guard is the way to go...

[John_Kunkel]

My opinion only, but, a "newby", selecting a new and first, rifle would be much better served by a Colt 6920

Sure, if ya wannabe like everybody else get a Chevy and an AR clone.

[charge69]

Pretty ironic that you would say "an AR clone" when you show a "Parts Kit Imbel"   as his choice!  Whatever !   I'm just giving him informed options for SHTF-scenario rifles.  HE can make up his mind now that we have given our differing opinions.  Does buying an AR automatically make you want to buy a Chevy?  Certainly didn't me but, maybe where you live. 

My first purchase was a .308 and then a couple more then,  I got a few AR's and, if you buy a quality rifle and run it "wet", it is amazing how reliable they are. At any practical range that you care to shoot, a 5.56 will do it's job if you do yours! So will a .308-based rifle. I know as I qualified "expert" with a M-14 in 1966 at Marine Corps boot camp. Nowadays, my old azz would take a much lighter AR and twice as much ammo every time.  AND, I can guarantee you I would not be taking shots at 500 meters! Inside 200 meters is a possibility but not a probability.

[bordin34]

My AR

[charge69]

Very nice, bordin34 !! A fairly light "red dot" scope really doesn't add much weight.  Probably not much more than my handle/rear sight does on my older models.  That said,  none of my AR's have a red dot sight added. As my eyes get older and actually seeing the sights get harder, I probably should get some of them.

Big fan of the Trijicon ACOG (no batteries) but, not their price! I have their 3x9x40 hunting scope on my Mannlicher Mountain Rifle in .308 and it is an amazing scope! In all but pitch black situations it doesn't need IR to see what is going on. Hoping patience will reward me with a great deal on one!

[bordin34]

Since zeroing it I havent used the red dot. I prefer irons on everything. I have this set up with 1/3 co-witness so I can use both with either really interfering.
I have this one. Its one of the best cheap red dots available. Eventually I'll be getting a real aimpoint.
https://www.primaryarms.com/Primary_Arms_30mm_Red_Dot_p/primary-arms-30mm-red-dot.htm

[myk]

My opinion only, but, a "newby", selecting a new and first, rifle would be much better served by a Colt 6920

Sure, if ya wannabe like everybody else get a Chevy and an AR clone.

I know both a Chevy and a Colt will fire every time I need them to; anything outside of that is just personal preference and opinion...

[John_Kunkel]

I'm just giving him informed options for SHTF-scenario rifles.

Therein lies the difference, you evidently envision a SHTF scenario where one would want a rifle that allows him to travel cross country (ala the Book of Eli) packing enough ammo to fight a small war. My scenario is based on simply defending ones life/property from such scavengers.

Does buying an AR automatically make you want to buy a Chevy?  Certainly didn't me but, maybe where you live. 

AR fans seem to follow the herd, like Chevy owners.

[charge69]

If you stay in place in a real SHTF scenario, you will surely die. With me, contact with others, as in The Book of Eli, just would not happen.  Minimal contact would be my preferred scenario and movement to ensure minimal contact.   No herd here and, no Chevys either!

[twodko]

Nicely said Myk!

In a real SHTF event the majority of us home & property defenders
will be dead in short order by neighbors who want what we have, scavengers
whose intention is to rob the rest of us then there is the SHFT event itself.
Lots of bodies rotting where they fall.

The "preppers" will be the first sought out for provisions and slaughter. Speaking of provisions,
those who feel they can "bugout" are in for a big surprise too.
The only provisions that will count.......if you have time to kit up, is ammo and water.

First responders..........LEO's...........our military?

Confidence would be high that a great many of them would be dead, the rest
would be fighting for their very lives.  

I'm not a doom and gloomer or a defeatist but there is nothing more
frightening or deadly than a mass of stupid people hungry and thirsty with weapons.  

[myk]

Nicely said Myk!

In a real SHTF event the majority of us home & property defenders
will be dead in short order by neighbors who want what we have, scavengers
whose intention is to rob the rest of us then there is the SHFT event itself.
Lots of bodies rotting where they fall.

The "preppers" will be the first sought out for provisions and slaughter. Speaking of provisions,
those who feel they can "bugout" are in for a big surprise too.
The only provisions that will count.......if you have time to kit up, is ammo and water.

First responders..........LEO's...........our military?

Confidence would be high that a great many of them would be dead, the rest
would be fighting for their very lives.  

I'm not a doom and gloomer or a defeatist but there is nothing more
frightening or deadly than a mass of stupid people hungry and thirsty with weapons.  

Reminds me of a discussion I was having about the Walking Dead series: the REAL threat is from none other than our own human race, bent on self preservation and the release of civility and morality. 

People have criticized me for not investing into stockpiles of weapons and ammunition; however what you and I know is that most of us will not be able to "hole up" hiding behind crates of bullets.  In the event of a catastrophe most of the population will be moved, either by the government or various threats...

[greenpigs]

Note:

Do NOT break into bordin34 place!


I do not hunt so no help on that front but a .44 mag lever action Henry "Big Boy"  would be my choice. Someday when I get a real job I will own one but chambered in .357 to go along with my revolvers.

Retail is $899

[gtx6970]

Me personally I wouldn't consider a 223 a SHTF caliber.
UNLESS, you have at least a 30 round clip in it .

[John_Kunkel]

Rifle calibers are often rated by their "killing power".

Energy at 100 yards (in foot pounds) x Sectional Density (taken from reloading manuals) x Bullet Frontal Area (in square inches) = Killing Power figure at 100 yards.
------------------------------------------------------
.223 WSSM (64 grain at 3600 fps) - 10.1

.30-30 Winchester (150 grain at 2390 fps) - 22.8

.30-30 Winchester (170 grain at 2200 fps) - 25.4

.308 Winchester (150 grain at 2820 fps) - 34.7

.308 Winchester (180 grain at 2620 fps) - 46.2

So it's easy to see, if you just want to piss off an adversary the .223 is your caliber, if you want to stop them you want .30 caliber.

[myk]

If we're talking about SHTF scenarios then we're most likely talking about door to door, room to room, close quarters encounters.  .223/5.56 is more than adequate in that regards, and I would venture that caliber will be easier to find than anything else in a world of scavenging.  

And they're called magazines, not clips...

[redmist]

Don't buy anything from anyone selling something based on "Killing power," "Stopping power," or any variation  Just, nod, say Mmmhmmm...  and walk away.

5.56mm has turned many folks into basketball sized wound channels, and canoed out heads. Ammunition selection is key to getting it to function as intended in your barrel length of choice. It's a flat out nasty round when applied correctly.

[John_Kunkel]

Elephants have been killed with a .22LR....so that makes a .22 a good SHTF rifle?

[draftingmonkey]

Elephants have been killed with a .22LR....so that makes a .22 a good SHTF rifle?

Well in that case how about a nice lightweight rifle like the Henry Survuival (AR-7)




You can pack a heck of a lot more .22LR than anything else when it comes to having to travel.  As for hunting big game you may want to take a read of the article below before relying on big game for food.  You would be better off looking at small game which a .22LR is perfect for.

http://www.prepper-resources.com/why-you-shouldnt-count-on-hunting-after-t-shtf/

It makes a difference in choice between a weapon you will travel with and the room/weight that ammunition will require you to carry vs. defending your home and not planning to move around.