Cold start procedure

[Dino]

It's embarrassing but I honestly don't know how I'm supposed to start my car when it sits for a while.  It's a 6545S Thermoquad and I do not have a choke, at all.  I know that if it had I would have to pump the pedal once to set the choke but since it does not have one, what is the correct procedure?  It takes minutes for this thing to fire up if it sits for more than a few days.

Can I assume that the crappy fuel has left the carb and I need to fill the bowls before it can fire up?  At this time it won't even give me an indication it would fire up, it just cranks and cranks and I pump and pump.   

Should I pump several times to let the accelerator pump squirt gas down there before I attempt to start it?  I really don't want to install an electric pump as I am hoping to get this system back to stock specs with a choke and heater air cleaner but if all else fails I may have to do just that.

Maybe there's an easy way to install a manual choke? 

[1974dodgecharger]

I know its not as cold as MI but we do get down to to 35 degrees here in AZ.  I pump it to fill the up and crank and press gas pedal and hold for 1500 rpms for nearly 5 mins....,what a waste of gas.....

[Dino]

We're currently a little warmer than that although not by much.  I put my plugs back in, reset the metering tree which was only off by a quarter turn and tried to start.  I pumped 5-10 times and cranked for 5 seconds, repeated this about 4 times before it started to indicate fuel was getting ignited.  A few more pumps and it fired up.  Once it does I can keep it running just by holding it around 1100 or so rpm (guessing here).  It seems that there was simply no fuel in the bowls but I'm guessing again.  At least it was a little easier to start compared to yesterday so pumping seems to be the thing to do. 

[RECHRGD]

Dino, I have a Holley D/P with a proform main body and no choke.  I normally just crank it over a couple of times to get the oil circulating a bit and then pump the pedal eight or ten times before turning the key.  It will usually fire right up, but I need to feather it for a bit until it will idle on its own.  The colder it is, the more pedal pumping you have to do.  

[Dino]

Alright that seems to be pretty much what I have to do.  It used to start up easier when cold but so much has changed on this car that it is hard to pinpoint what the cause is.  It probably ran way too rich before. 

When I change the cam I intend to install some type of choke to make this a bit easier.  Funny how long it takes before it acts like this.  When I took the car out last week it sat for about 5 hours and fired right up.  A day more and it's cranking time.  So it seems this fuel evaporates slowly, but surely.   

[b5blue]

  After fiddling with my six pack choke, replacing the vacuum pull off and thermal do-dad checking this and that I started looking in a manual choke. When I posted about it a member showed me how and it took about 12 bucks and 1 hour. I had to enlarge one hole a bit but just removed a few parts but honestly it works like a charm!
  Several factors make a manual choke a good idea especially on an automatic transmission car. Firstly if the engine is having to be revved up to keep from stalling buy your hitting the gas if you put it in gear to move backwards, your slamming the crap out of the reverse solenoid. It can jam or stick engaged leaving you stuck binding forward and reverse battling it out inside your transmission if you try to go forward. Even if that's not happened (yet) your slamming pump pressures as they drop from near zero to too much as your struggling to keep the engine running. Other factors are things like our cars can sit for days or weeks while we work on them. We could be changing parts or adjustments to the engine, have stale fuel or other issues like weak spark/battery that an automatic choke can't compensate for.
  I'm not saying only have a manual choke, when everything is stable and tuned/adjusted it's probably better. In my case I use my Charger to go to work about 2 miles away. Florida is so hot 90% of the time I want to pull off choke ASAP just to keep extra fuel out of my cylinders. The 440 tells me when exactly I can kill choke so I plan on keeping manual choke. I'm certain there is a kit, mine came with a bunch of adapters and nothing was destroyed to install so you can put it back to stock later.       

[b5blue]

Alright that seems to be pretty much what I have to do.  It used to start up easier when cold but so much has changed on this car that it is hard to pinpoint what the cause is.  It probably ran way too rich before. 

When I change the cam I intend to install some type of choke to make this a bit easier.  Funny how long it takes before it acts like this.  When I took the car out last week it sat for about 5 hours and fired right up.  A day more and it's cranking time.  So it seems this fuel evaporates slowly, but surely.   

Keep in mind with no choke it's harder for the engine to get fuel when it needs it the most, mine can sit for days but fires right up with the choke on. The choke plate being closed sucks fuel out of the bowls to get the engine lit. Your not moving much fuel cranking.

[Dino]

That was my though as well, this pump is fine once there's fuel in the bowls, but it takes a while to get it there.  I'm going to look into installing a manual choke, I think it'll work fine for me.  Heck it works great on my little lawn tractor!   

[b5blue]

Here is a bunch of info, it said a manual choke kit is widely available: http://www.carbkitsource.com/carbs/tech/Carter/pages/thermoquad%20-%20AUS.html

[John_Kunkel]

From my personal experience the TQ is one carb that really needs a functioning choke.

[tan top]

on a daily , better to have a choke   ,
if your running with out a choke , be an idea to richen the  idle mixture up a little , spin the motor over on the starter for a bit , to get the fuel up into the float bowls , if left over night  , pump the gas 3 or 4  times  , then fire it up , if it just dies again nother couple of pumps of the gas , when it fires , slowly ( gently ) ease down of the gas pedal increase the rpm to 900 - 1300 or  ( what would be considered a fast idle for your set up ) , depending how cold the ( temperature )is ,  hold it there for a bit till the  motor gets a bit of heat in it  , &  away you go  , (( there are a few variables ie what climate conditions & how rich your idle mixture is , as to how many pumps / cranking time , holding the rpm at a fast idle etc , ))  don't start jabbing on the gas pedal while the motor is still cold & or your cranking it over , will end up shooting ducks out the top of the  carb & prolly  stalling the motor & or maybe setting the air filter alight.

[flyinlow]

As a fellow owner /operator of the plastic fantastic, I have to agree with John that the TQ needs a choke in the winter.  With Eddy heads, an unheated Street Dominator intake and a cold air system the TQ is not exactly in its comfort zone. I soldered a lever too the existing choke rod attachment  point . A manual choke cable was installed an the cable routed around the carb in front with the sheathing ending near the front passenger side of the carb  at a fabricated bracket. The bare cable extends back to the new lever. This lets the choke on position be with the knob pulled out.

To operate, pump the gas a few times ending with the gas pedal down about 1/2 way . Pull the choke knob  out all the way ,then push in a slight amount. Release the gas petal. Start the engine. The engine should idle 1000-1200 rpm at first. After about 10 seconds you can open the choke about half way. After about 1-2 minutes depending on temp. you can turn off the choke. It will idle a little slow at first then gradually achieve a normal idle as the engine warms fully. Not perfect but it's passable. Without a choke you will need to pump the gas petal 10 or more times to prime the engine assuming you have enough fuel left in the bowls and then feather the gas petal until it will run on it's own.

As far as the carb being dry after it sits for awhile there are three choices.
1. leave as is crank the engine alot.
2. install a small electric pump on for priming the carb. 
3. Pull the evap vapor hose off the carb , the large one going to the air horn high on the passenger side. Put a length of 3/8 fuel hose on the nipple. Using a squirt bottle of gasoline , bottle feed enough gas to the carb to start it. It works but don't over do it or it floods the engine. 

[1974dodgecharger]

that what I do, but with less pumps usually 2 pumps and she fires, but I gotta hold gas down for awhile.....I don't have a choke.

on a daily , better to have a choke   ,
if your running with out a choke , be an idea to richen I idle mixture up a little , spin the motor over on the starter for a bit , to get the fuel up into the float bowls , if left over night  , pump the gas 3 or 4  times  , then fire it up , if it just dies again nother couple of pumps of the gas , when it fires , slowly ( gently ) ease down of the gas pedal increase the rpm to 900 - 1300 ( what would be considered a fast idle for your set up ) , depending how cold the it is ( temperature ) hold it there for a bit till the  motor gets a bit of heat in it  , &  away you go  , (( there are a few variables ie what climate conditions & how rich your idle mixture is , as to how many pumps / cranking time , holding the rpm at a fast idle etc , ))  don't start jabbing on the gas pedal while the motor is still cold & or your cranking it over , will end up shooting ducks out the top of the  carb & prolly  stalling the motor & or maybe setting the air filter alight.

[Dino]

Plastic fantastic     That's priceless.

Thanks for the info guys.  I'm actually happy to hear it's quite normal for a TQ to have starting issus with a choke.  I almost bought a TQ with electric choke a while back, but the price was pretty high and I felt it was a bit overkill to buy another carb yet again.  I'll do some homework and see what I can come up with to get a choke on this thing. 

[1974dodgecharger]

chokes nice, but I do look like a oddball in morning going home from work idling at 1200 to 1500 trying to keep my foot in place for the right RPM and being a muscle car its loud....especially at my company that's all about being, 'green' 

[don duick]

Dino, heres a photo of a manual choke I made for a carter avs

[Cooter]

Think it's bad with a non functioning choke? Try a Holley with no choke horn/tower at all. (Think Dominator). When it's really cold, forget it.

[71 SE3834V]

Dino, Do you have a choke plate but it's not hooked up? I should know this having looked down your carb before.
If you have the choke plate there I have a push/pull cable you can have if you want to try to rig something up to try. It's only 39" long though. Don't know if that'll work.
Oh, and I have some cable clamps you might be able to attach to the carb like don did.

[Dino]

Thanks Don for the picture and Jeff for the offer.     I do have the choke plate.   

I'll bring the old beast over this weekend Jeff, did you still want to check the compression?

[71 SE3834V]

Thanks Don for the picture and Jeff for the offer.    I do have the choke plate.  

I'll bring the old beast over this weekend Jeff, did you still want to check the compression?

Yeah we can do that. Shouldn't take that long to shove my trans up in place. Looks like some nice weather coming. Might be the last nice days for a while.

[Dino]

Yep but we can't complain, we had a good year.

Trans comes first, we'll look at mine only if the time is there.  I'd drive the car regardless, I always do.   

[68CoronetRT]

This seems odd to me. I give it two pumps and hit the key and it might turn 1 revolution before firing and idling. I do have to hold the RPM up for 20-40 seconds depending on how cold it is.

Running a Holley 770

[Dino]

This seems odd to me. I give it two pumps and hit the key and it might turn 1 revolution before firing and idling. I do have to hold the RPM up for 20-40 seconds depending on how cold it is.

Running a Holley 770

Is this without a choke? 

With the Edelbrock carbs and electric choke the car starts up fine, but they run like crap so the TQ is back on.

I'll rig up a choke for it and when finances allow i'll be efi time but that may be a while. school is draining my account faster than I can fill it.  I barely drive the car anymore because it's such a pain dealing with all this.  It was disappointing to find after all this work the car runs worse than before and it really took the wind out of my sails.     

[don duick]

This seems odd to me. I give it two pumps and hit the key and it might turn 1 revolution before firing and idling. I do have to hold the RPM up for 20-40 seconds depending on how cold it is.

Running a Holley 770

yep that sounds right. I have  750 holley VS starts straight away no choke and idles and I can drive off  in warm weather. when cold weather needs 1/2 choke for about a minute.

[Dino]

I took the car out today, turned the key and it rumbled for a split second so that must've been what was left in the carb, fumes probably.  Pumped it several times and cranked for a few seconds, repeated this and it started to come to life, did it again ad it fired up.  Not ideal but a lot better than before.  This is after sitting for a week or more so the fuel must've evaporated.  71 SE3834V rigged up a choke for me today so I'll test it out tomorrow.  At this time the car had been sitting for about 4 hours and was still warm enough to fire up without a choke.  Starting is only an issue when it sits for a while.  I sure had a blast on the freeway again.   

[fy469rtse]

Dino, must be my least favourite thing with these cars,
Modern fuels are formulated for pressurised systems , and these cars are not , car is normally hot when you park it, vented carburettors hot engine vaporising fuel ,
Fuel is gone by the next time you go start it ,
I install priming pump wired to crank only , short secondary line installed with pump parallel branched in to main feed line so when pump not active , fuel drawing up through main line uninterrupted , only other thing I install is a one way check valve to ensure pump pulls fuel up the branch line and not trying to draw it from carburettor source ,
Mind you I also have fuel reg and return line installed in line after this to ensure carb floats are not over powered
Has worked great on my other cars, instant fire, still have to wait for them to warm up though ,
But this cuts down on the unnecessary cranking of engine and wear on components like starter,
Still haven't checked how it functions on this car though , still unknown as chasing electrics, but getting there

[fy469rtse]

Sorry ment to add ,
Main result is instant priming of fuel line Dino,

[ChargerST]

Dino, must be my least favourite thing with these cars,
Modern fuels are formulated for pressurised systems , and these cars are not , car is normally hot when you park it, vented carburettors hot engine vaporising fuel ,
Fuel is gone by the next time you go start it ,
I install priming pump wired to crank only , short secondary line installed with pump parallel branched in to main feed line so when pump not active , fuel drawing up through main line uninterrupted , only other thing I install is a one way check valve to ensure pump pulls fuel up the branch line and not trying to draw it from carburettor source ,
Mind you I also have fuel reg and return line installed in line after this to ensure carb floats are not over powered
Has worked great on my other cars, instant fire, still have to wait for them to warm up though ,
But this cuts down on the unnecessary cranking of engine and wear on components like starter,
Still haven't checked how it functions on this car though , still unknown as chasing electrics, but getting there

This is exactly what I want to do! 

[Dino]

Fy I'm on the fence regarding carb vs efi.  The megasquirt thing looks just way too complicated for me.  Nothing I can't learn but time is always a factor and a bolt on application looks real tempting right now.  Still I'll look into all these things bit by bit and see what I can come up with.  If I stick with the carb then I'll do exactly as you described.

So I went to fire up the car a few minutes ago.  It has only sat since about 5 pm yesterday so the fuel had probably not left the building so to speak.   
Thanks to 71 SE3834V I now have a functioning choke!   

I pumped the gas pedal once and turned the key and the car fired up immediately and settled into the fast idle.  I was shocked to say the least.   

The evaporating fuel is a whole different matter I'm sure so I'm going to leave the car alone for a few days and try again.  Having a choke will sure help from now on though! 

Oh, the choke is the coil thingie with the single wire adapted to fit the TQ.  I have it hooked up to the Firecore coil which has constant and keyed 12v hooked to it.  That's okay right?

[71 SE3834V]

Next thing to try is leaving the carb on fast idle like I mentioned. It will involve popping the hood and possibly removing the air cleaner but it should close the vent and hopefully retain some fuel for a longer period. Like I told you I tried it one time w/my car but at the time I had a weak fuel pump (started leaking the next year) and an unknown worn out engine and I really didn't pay attention to how it started.
The funny thing is I don't seem to have this problem with my Galaxie unless it sits for more than a week or more. A few days, no problem.

[Dino]

Well I let the car sit all week and took it out yesterday.  It was around freezing outside so figure 5-ish degrees warmer in my unheated or insulated garage.  I set the choke with the gas pedal and cranked for about 4-5 seconds until it fired up and settled into the fast idle.  I'm happy with that!   

I guess I didn't leave it running long enough because it died when I put it in reverse.  It stalled again at the first stop but was fine by the next one so next time I just need to leave it alone a bit longer.  Overall it seems the choke solved the issue so that's one less thing to worry about.

[71 SE3834V]

Yep, pretty much how I remember these beasts running back in the day. I remember more than once rolling to a stop in neutral so I could feather the pedal to keep it running. Should get a little better if you get that stock air cleaner on and rig up a hot air intake.

[Dino]

I think so yeah, I should probably up the idle a tad as well, it's a bit on the low side even when the engine's hot.  But more than anything I should be a bit more patient and let the engine warm up a bit before I take off.   

I have 4 more weeks before the car goes into storage so I'd like to get the air cleaner working.  I have all the hoses and when tested everything works fine, all I need is a metal tube to connect the air cleaner to the headers somehow and that should do it.

[1974dodgecharger]

That's when a manual comes in very handy, lol....I get to feather the gas so I don't stall out....vroom, vroom,

[Dino]

No kidding!  I can't wait to turn this car into a manual shift.   

[1974dodgecharger]

you will still get backfire though  it happened to me at light one morning I didn't let it warm up enough I started it and instantly drove off with the gas feathered to keep it going and had to come to a stop and even with gas on, let go clutch, she backfired a bit, felt like a dumb ass, lol...car was not even 100 degrees warm yet my car likes 160 in the cold for it to even think about going anywhere.

[Dino]

Just one of many reasons why I want sequential efi to go with that 6 speed.   

This car's gonna ruin me financially... 

[1974dodgecharger]

Just one of many reasons why I want sequential efi to go with that 6 speed.   

This car's gonna ruin me financially... 

that be nice right there.....I keep telling myself im done with this car im happy, let it be, it drives a lot better than most old school chargers out there, I take it places that most never thought of, drive it daily vs others who drive weekends only if that, but sometimthing about this one keeps me going back to make it better and better, but I want a 1970 and a 69 and this car keeps me from doing it.

[Dino]

I've been driving the car more and more and it's a joy to finally be able to start this thing easily!  When it sits for a while I need to crank a few seconds but it fires up and runs great on the fast idle.  I let it be for a minute and drive off with no issues.  I do have to pop it in neutral at a stop until it warms up but my idle should probably be raised a bit.  Still, it's a small price to pay.  I drove it yesterday and when Iturned the key today it fired right up.   

I'm actually enjoying driving in the cold weather a lot more than during the summer since I don't end up stinking like raw fuel when I keep the windows closed, and now that the heater is fixed it's all the more enjoyable.   

3 more weeks before it goes into storage so I'm taking it out any chance I get.   

[71 SE3834V]

I gotta put some miles on my beast. I'll meet you half way somewhere. I'll be the guy with no hood on his car! 

[Dino]

Ha!  That'll be easy enough to spot.   

I'll be the guy going way too fast in the left lane, try to keep up and ignore the flashing lights behind me.   

[71 SE3834V]

"Just some good 'ole boys, never meaning no harm..."

[Dino]

I think the sheriff here agrees with that statement because I passed three of them this morning at about 10 over and they all ignored me.  I guess they didn't want to ruin their breakfast.   

I should probably consider a radar detector.