My 73' Charger will not crank..help....help please.

[BMOTOXSTAR]

OK, here we go...help me please.

My 73' Rallye Charger will not crank, nothing to the starter. I broke down a month ago at a car cruise & I had to run a lead to the positive of battery to the coil to get home.

It is dead at the ignition switch....I get the interior lights, horn, blower motor, radio, turn signals. No click even.The coil has power, starter is getting the volts, I pulled out the volt meter, power to the starter relay.

So, right before this happened I had an issues where the Charger would not stay in park, I would have to rock her. Then I could only start in neutral. I replaced the NSS so maybe the linkage is stopping it from starting?

I replaced the following...
Ignition Box
Ballast
Starter/Wires
Ignition Switch
NSS
Battery/wires
Starter Relay
Voltage Regulator
Has a new engine harness
Checked the bulk-head

Help, any would be appreciated.

Nacho..where are ya' man?

[ODZKing]

Just because you put a neutral safety switch on and it may be "new" doesn't mean the switch was any good.
Just a thought.  

[BMOTOXSTAR]

I grounded the NSS wire at the starter relay and nothing...so I would think that the NSS not the problem?

[flyinlow]

I am confused. The starter is getting volts  but will not crank the engine ? You have battery voltage to both the large wire to the starter and the smaller wire that powers the starter solenoid.   That's easy ,the starter needs repair.

The large wire from the battery to the starter should be hot all the time. The smaller wire from the starter relay on the firewall to the solenoid is only hot during cranking... ignition switch to start and the car in park or neutral.

With the car in park jump across the starter relay terminals with a screwdriver and  the starter should crank the engine.

'74 cars had a seatbelt interlock, but your '73 should not.



A fellow '73 owner.

[BMOTOXSTAR]

Nope, brand new, not even 2 days old Starter.

I just did the big positive cable with the voltmeter & not the little wire....I will test the little wire with someone turning the key or me cranking it, have a hard time with my arthritis & crawling around with these damn' jack stands and floor jack.

If I take a screw driver to the relay on the firewall it will make the starter work.

[moparnation74]

Any adjustments done to your tranny linkage?  Sounds like it is out of adjustment.

[BMOTOXSTAR]

Well, the linkage is sloppy. It is the slap stik. How the hell do I adjust the linkage?
It looks like there is a side bolt and a top cotter pin on the shaft that make the shifter move on the tranny, is this where I adjust & how?
It is rusty down there...

I also did notice that I have to rock the car real hard forward for it to engage in park, will not start in N or P. 

[John_Kunkel]

I grounded the NSS wire at the starter relay and nothing...

That eliminates the NSS as the cause.

If I take a screw driver to the relay on the firewall it will make the starter work.

That tells you the starter is working OK. Can you hear a click when you turn the switch to Start?

[Nacho-RT74]

Sorry it took so long. Being busy

ok.. first... do you get power at red wire ign switch down the column ?

then on IGN1 position ( run circuit ), do you get full 12 volts at blue and black wires ?

then on IGN2 position ( starting circuit ), do you get full 12 volts on yellow and brown wires ?

those are the first test.

If you are getting juice on yellow wire at starter relay ( which is the one coming from ign switch ), are you getting power from SOL terminal on starter relay when crancking ?

if not, you have a ground issue from NSS switch, or a bad starter relay

otherwise, is a starter motor problem or solenoid wire

[BMOTOXSTAR]

I grounded the NSS wire at the starter relay and nothing...

That eliminates the NSS as the cause.

If I take a screw driver to the relay on the firewall it will make the starter work.

That tells you the starter is working OK. Can you hear a click when you turn the switch to Start?

Yep, I can hear the starter solenoid making a little click...that starter is brand new.

[John_Kunkel]

There are two possible sources for a click, either the firewall starter relay or the starter solenoid...you eliminated the starter solenoid when you applied a screw driver to the relay on the firewall and the starter worked.

If you can hear/feel a click from the firewall relay and the starter won't turn, the relay is bad or the wiring from the relay to the starter is bad.

[Nacho-RT74]

Yep, I can hear the starter solenoid making a little click...that starter is brand new.

starter SOLENOID or starter RELAY ?

IF solenoid ( mounted on starter motor ) makes click ( loud ) but doesn't crank, is a starter motor fail... armature, fields, brushes or bushing. Yes I know you say is new

IF Relay, then solenoid wire or starter motor or solenoid fail.

diagnosis is pretty much simple... Dunno why is becoming hard LOL

if power at yellow wire at starter relay trying to crank, we know ign switch &/or cranking circuit is working correctly. If not, problem is on bulkhead, steering column plug or ign switch itself.

then you have to get ground from NSS on brown traced wire to close the circuit when cranking. If not ground there in P or N, posible NSS or wiring failure, or linkage adjustment

you can jump the GR prong to chassis to discard that, and try again with ign switch ( be sure is on P or N ). I think read you already did it.

then you can jump out the Ign prong with a jumper wire between stud and Ign prong to try to crank it from engine bay. If notresponse, it's a relay problem.

with a wrench or screw drive, short the big stud with SOL terminal ( will spark ), and starter motor must crank. If not, starter motor or solenoid problem.

That's pretty much all the testing procedure.

[BMOTOXSTAR]

Nacho,
    No power at the hot wire for the starter on the solenoid, just at big hot cable, no click at all on starter.

I put in another new NSS.

The wires from the ignition switch to harness are getting power. New Ignition switch as well.

Starts when I jump at the starter relay & stays running nice. Lights turn on, etc, no dimming. The volt meter on dash is pegged all the way to the C though? Normal?

No power to the wire that goes from relay to the starter, has to be that relay? There is also what looks like another fuse-able link  there?

I am going to order another starter relay, seems like the relay, please confirm Nacho.
Sounds like the click is at the coil & not the relay, relay seems dead.

Yes, I am bad with instructions & I always make the project harder than it is....

[Nacho-RT74]

ok... if you jumped the starter RELAY between stud and SOL terminal and STARTER MOTOR cranked just fine, we discard the STARTER MOTOR OR ITS SOLENOID LOL. Its in working order

no fuse link on that wire. Only fuse link on all the car is the one between starter relay stud and cab

then you can ground to chassis the GROUND prong on starter RELAY, and try from ign key once again. If cranks up fine, fail comes from NSS or harness.

IF NOT, check yellow wire is getting power when trying to crank up. IF YES, then failing device is the relay... IF NOT, the fail comes from cranking circuit ( ign switch, ign plug, bulkhead ).

Note, you can get a combination of fails too LOL

[John_Kunkel]

Does anybody ever read the previous replies before posting? 

[Nacho-RT74]

yes, I did... some are confusing, so I explain step by step how to test it from the begining anyway LOL

[BMOTOXSTAR]

yes, I did... some are confusing, so I explain step by step how to test it from the begining anyway LOL

Nacho, thanks for the help on this man. Yeah, I am having a rough time figuring this out. Thanks for walking me through.

So, I installed a new starter relay. No start. Just with jumping at the relay with a screwdriver. 

Like you have said Nacho, it has to be in the bulkhead ?
The wire to the solenoid looks great.

The only other thing I can think is that the key tumbler is worn? Any thoughts?
I get no power to the starter solenoid.

I am ready to make a fusable wire at the starter relay to a switch by the dash so I can start each time.

Yeah, I put 50 miles on Saturday having to jump at the relay for the time I had to shut down. It just sucks.

[BMOTOXSTAR]

Thanks Nacho, it is hard being the only person where you live that has any knowledge of autos. My wife turns the key & holds the flashlight for me but other than that I am on my own except for the help I get here. So I thank you more than you know man.

yes, I did... some are confusing, so I explain step by step how to test it from the begining anyway LOL

[Nacho-RT74]

not a problem

so you changed the relay and still nothing.

ok, go with a test light and put it to the yellow wire running up to starter relay. Does it light up when trying to crank ?

if not, then you have just to trace the wire from there up to ign switch. It doesn't have any splice anywhere, is just one run from there up to ign switch. check on both sides of bulkhead, steering column plug

another test you can make... feed the yellow wire from inside the cab. fuseblock get two inserted prongs, one is batt the other one is acc. get a jumper wire from the batt prong to the steering column plug yellow wire. If does not crank, problem is mostly sure on bulkhead... if cranks up, problem is on ign switch... OR its plug

[BMOTOXSTAR]

OK, so that yellow wire on that steering column plug goes into the bulkhead behind the gauges, then from firewall to the relay the to the starter solenoid?

I hope I follow you here Nacho man.

Cause' I have that wire from the solenoid to the relay, that is not yellow. Man, thanks again. I will try this.

New ignition switch to man.

[BMOTOXSTAR]

OK, no power to that lower ignition switch wire on that relay.....when cranking to start.

[Nacho-RT74]

OK, so that yellow wire on that steering column plug goes into the bulkhead behind the gauges, then from firewall to the relay the to the starter solenoid?

yes

ok, you can unplug the steering column plug, and jump the red and yellow wires on undedash side ( male terminals )... should crank

[BMOTOXSTAR]

Nacho,  jumped them 2 wires & nothing., I swear I hear a click sound in the dash by the glove box..maybe ......

So, I almost have my gauge cluster out...there are a few not so good looking wires in there...I will update....this has to be the issue.....

When you would turn the key all the way to crank, it is like there is a huge draw on the current & that is why it will not start. One of these wires has to be the culprit. Man, it is a messy jungle in there....

The car has started & ran great for 10 years....now all of a sudden...


Time to make all the wires right & make sure all the buzzers, etc are connected properly...oh man...

[Nacho-RT74]

My friend, IMHO EVERYTHING is pointing out to the bulkhead... burnt main alt-amm-batt wires. Nothing than Mopar owners don't know LOL

[BMOTOXSTAR]

Nacho,
  All the wires on the dash cluster look nice. The burnt was from the radio which was not connected...

So I trace the yellow wire from the ignition switch connector...into bulkhead under dash...to the outside of bulkhead by engine firewall...trace to the starter relay. The bulkhead and the wires going into look nice & are getting power on both sides.Even leading from bulkhead to the starter relay...

I did notice that the starter buzzer I think it is called wires are cut on the factory ignition switch plug & the piece that would go in by the ignition switch is not there. The car came to me like this and has ran for 10+ years for me....I don't know.


No power at the relay where the starter solenoid wire goes (the post that has the screw head with the connector that slides into it) . Looks like that wire has a fusable link. I cut it, run it with a fuse in the middle, back on relay. No power.
Run + straight to that wire, starts, turns car starts.Runs great actually....

That relay is getting no power at that stud. Brand new relay.
Could it be that the key cylinder is so worn that when it turns the last connection cannot be set? The key tumbler is loose and sloppy. I just don't know what to do. Power at the ignition switch plug, power at the bulkhead...

Would it really be a bad idea to run a toggle start from the relay + to the starter just so I can drive the car ?
It will turn off with the key & all the lights, accessories etc work great. Once it starts running the voltmeter does go to the middle as normal.

Nacho, I know this sounds so easy but WTF, I mean WTF !!! I must just have some horrible bad gremlin that lives in my dash.

[Dino]

Run a pulse or momentary switch instead of a toggle switch so you don't burn the starter.  You can definitely do this to get by.  I'm going to read this whole thread now so I can see if I can help.  I can tell you that if something is missing and not hooked up I would start there.  Forget how it used to work, that has passed so time to fix it right.  Bring it back to stock specs and it'll probably fire right up.

[Nacho-RT74]

ok... let's see... first need to get patiente.

power to the cab runs like this:

BATT----> Relay stud----> bulkhead with a fuse link in the way----> red wire into cab to ammeter red post----->ammeter black post-----> black wire up to splice down the tape----->becomes red from there up to ign switch.

so, the first you need to be sure is... you have power on red wire down the steering column AND a good contact between male and female ignition switch plugs down the column

If you unplug that ignition switch plug you have acces to male terminals coming from underdash harness. If you have power on red wire there and yellow wire between ign switch plug and starter relay is running nice without any cut, jumping them simply should crack on. Not start, just crank on

Starter relay:
the wire running to starter motor solenoid ( the one which you slide up into the relay provision with an screw ) has no power untill you trigger it from ign switch. Thats the only moment will be hot into relay and wire itself up to starter motor sol.

BUZZER WIRES... they come from underdash harness in two tiny black wires and become red into the column. They doens't have anything to do with ign. they drive ground and is just the KEY IN warning buzzer... this is the switch inside the column for that:



and makes buzz the device plugged into the top of fuse box, which is the horn relay and key in buzzer at the same time.... same piece for all 71/73 Mopars. Some with brackest ( A bodies ) some not since its hold by itself being plugged.

Buzz function is driven by the offset prong




but once again this has nothing to do with ignition... just ilustrating how it works this

[BMOTOXSTAR]

Nacho, thank you.
That is the part that is fried.
The wires from that going into the  ignition under dash plug are fried as well. As you said, nothing to due with starting.

I will take some pic's. I just started putting it all back together & was going to just add a push switch and rig it . This is also my driver right now so I am just frustrated...

I am going to take my time and trace those wires again as you described Nacho...

The weird thing is, & I mean it really sounds like this....when I take the red + & jump it to the yellow wire on the male plug prong on the ignition plug harness it gets power & sounds like a buzzer or something behind the glove box is making a small noise...really...not under the cluster or any of that...but by the glove box...

[BMOTOXSTAR]

I think that noise is from the coil....btw..I did do a coil swap. Power to coil & starts running after relay jump.

Nacho, I just found this...so the stud son that could be bad ? Could I run that direct cable and how to b pas the bulkhead?

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php?topic=107803.0