Mild street build heads

[c00nhunterjoe]

Sure. What do you want to know? Its a real M code roadrunner 440 6 pack car with 3000 origonal miles on it. All gained 1/4 mile at a time. It runs in nhra stock.

[Ghoste]

To be fair though, those stock iron heads in that car which are unmodified have likely had more money and time spent in them to blueprint to perfection than many well modified aftermarket weekend warrior racers.  He could well have more money in his Stock Eliminator heads than some guys on the street spend in their shortblock.

[c00nhunterjoe]

To be fair though, those stock iron heads in that car which are unmodified have likely had more money and time spent in them to blueprint to perfection than many well modified aftermarket weekend warrior racers.  He could well have more money in his Stock Eliminator heads than some guys on the street spend in their shortblock.

The point was that power can be made with stock valve sizes and unmodified bowls/runners. And to add more head scratching to the mix, its a stock lift, hydraulic cam in it. .470 if i recall for the 6 pack cars? Dont quote me on the actual lift but it is whatever stock was for a 69 440 6 pack car.
  And it further backs up the famous quotes that are frequently uttered among many members here, heads are the key followed by a build that is properly matched.
   The stock eliminator class answers all of your questions from the origonal post: are stock heads enough? Will they choke tye motor, will they make power. The bottom line, as always, is what do you want to spend, and what do you want to do.

[BSB67]

To be fair though, those stock iron heads in that car which are unmodified have likely had more money and time spent in them to blueprint to perfection than many well modified aftermarket weekend warrior racers.  He could well have more money in his Stock Eliminator heads than some guys on the street spend in their shortblock.

The point was that power can be made with stock valve sizes and unmodified bowls/runners. And to add more head scratching to the mix, its a stock lift, hydraulic cam in it. .470 if i recall for the 6 pack cars? Dont quote me on the actual lift but it is whatever stock was for a 69 440 6 pack car.
  And it further backs up the famous quotes that are frequently uttered among many members here, heads are the key followed by a build that is properly matched.
   The stock eliminator class answers all of your questions from the origonal post: are stock heads enough? Will they choke tye motor, will they make power. The bottom line, as always, is what do you want to spend, and what do you want to do.

And the Pure Stock guys are running in the 11s at 115+ with considerably less rule bending and $$$ on the heads, and more restrictions on the equipment around the heads.  Not to confuse it with factory original,  but still shows what can be done in the realm of factory heads without too much work.

[c00nhunterjoe]

To be fair though, those stock iron heads in that car which are unmodified have likely had more money and time spent in them to blueprint to perfection than many well modified aftermarket weekend warrior racers.  He could well have more money in his Stock Eliminator heads than some guys on the street spend in their shortblock.

The point was that power can be made with stock valve sizes and unmodified bowls/runners. And to add more head scratching to the mix, its a stock lift, hydraulic cam in it. .470 if i recall for the 6 pack cars? Dont quote me on the actual lift but it is whatever stock was for a 69 440 6 pack car.
  And it further backs up the famous quotes that are frequently uttered among many members here, heads are the key followed by a build that is properly matched.
   The stock eliminator class answers all of your questions from the origonal post: are stock heads enough? Will they choke tye motor, will they make power. The bottom line, as always, is what do you want to spend, and what do you want to do.

And the Pure Stock guys are running in the 11s at 115+ with considerably less rule bending and $$$ on the heads, and more restrictions on the equipment around the heads.  Not to confuse it with factory original,  but still shows what can be done in the realm of factory heads without too much work.

Yup. Ive never wandered the pits to see or talk to the pure stock guys though. I know several of the stock guys and the roadrunner is really a work of art. When you look under the hood, she looks bone stock other then headers and an electric drive water pump. It has leaf springs and torsions bars. No funny busniss. Full and functional interior and full factory weight. The car is amazing on a 9" tire. If you ever want to experience mopars and what the factory components are capable of, you need to watch stock for sure.

[Ghoste]

I'm quite aware of the restrictions in Stock and PSMD so I do understand your points.  Also not exactly a newbie either so I'm also aware of how much power cubic money can provide.  Perhaps I should put the word cost behind mild.  Or maybe I'm just asking the wrong question too. 
All good, your answers are all welcome and all helpful.

[c00nhunterjoe]

In my opinion, the best "bang for the buck" for someone who isnt racing or cares about origonality, is the edlelbrock heads. From what i have seen, out of the box, they are "good enough" to bolt on and go and mKe decent reliable mild power. The stealth heads are a close 2nd but when you have to replace springs locks and retainers out of the box, you might as well buy the eddys. Either one is a good choice for a mild street engine though.
   But nothing is better then blowing the doors off a mustang, popping the hood, and saying "yup, my stock headed 383 just busted your a#$!!!!!

[Ghoste]

Or a smallblock Chevelle. 

[don duick]

don't know about using eddys out of the box. Their locks and retainers don't look good. I had mine checked and needed 2 exhaust valves re-faced and 2 seats recut. The inlet ports need a bit of cleaning as the casting is rough.

[rt green]

that road runner must be a work of art. amazing time. you answered a lot of my questions on it already. what do you guys think that guy did to his heads to be that competitive?

[Ghoste]

Blueprint the hell out of it.  Make sure every chamber and port is exactly the same as the rest.  Valve seats must be perfect, spring heights, pressures.  They can't can't change anything so they make sure every single dimension and tolerance is precisely where it was engineered to be.

[c00nhunterjoe]

Blueprint the hell out of it.  Make sure every chamber and port is exactly the same as the rest.  Valve seats must be perfect, spring heights, pressures.  They can't can't change anything so they make sure every single dimension and tolerance is precisely where it was engineered to be.

Cant change ports or bowls. Decking is allowed but i cant recall the minimum cc for the chambers. You also have to remember, the cam is stock lift so porting the heads for high lift flow would be pointless.......

[firefighter3931]

Stocker heads are far from stock...anybody who thinks otherwise is diluting themselves. 

The rules get bent and broken all the time. Extrude porting is common and not visible to the naked eye. The cam profiles they use must be stock lift but that's it. The valve opening rates and duration are nothing like you would ever find in a typical street engine. Duration is off the chart. Big spring pressures to control the valve action. Open headers and high rpm launches (6500 rpm) are standard fare. The Chassis are superbly dialed in as well.

Just about every trick in the book is used to make these cars run as good as they do. 


Ron

[rt green]

wish I had a book of tricks.

[BSB67]

wish I had a book of tricks.

More accurately, these guys are the authors of the book of tricks, and their work is not published, and they don't talk much either.

I think what they are doing is far more sophisticated than extrude honing.  But I don't know anything.

[c00nhunterjoe]

Stocker heads are far from stock...anybody who thinks otherwise is diluting themselves. 

The rules get bent and broken all the time. Extrude porting is common and not visible to the naked eye. The cam profiles they use must be stock lift but that's it. The valve opening rates and duration are nothing like you would ever find in a typical street engine. Duration is off the chart. Big spring pressures to control the valve action. Open headers and high rpm launches (6500 rpm) are standard fare. The Chassis are superbly dialed in as well.

Just about every trick in the book is used to make these cars run as good as they do. 


Ron

i can assure you that his heads are not ported and pass all of the tear down measurements and tests. they dont just look at the parts, they go over them with a fine tooth comb. im not saying he doesnt have a ton of time and effort into them because that would be a lie, but they are not ported. same towards the cam. the stockers have a distinct sound to them because of the crazy custom profile cams. there is no mistaking the idle of a stocker. my buddy is very open, unlike alot of the guys are as you mentioned. the stockers are alot more open to talk then the superstocker guys. alot of them are very secretive and dont like it when you are trying to drool over their cars...lol. if you see this roadrunner in the pits, he is more then happy to show you the car and talk to you about it. he is a real class act and makes racing fun.

[Ghoste]

Makes sense though since the Super Stock guys are allowed to put a few changes in there.

[rt green]

I guess my goal is to be very competitive with my buddies. most are in the low budget bracket, but even still, they are getting very close to the 12 second mark. some are more modified than others. to be quick with these guys and have a close to stock 440-6 would be cool. I did buy a cam from bob k. he also said do a plunge cut on the 906's. I also have a 4 speed. engine is rebuilt but not in the car yet.

[c00nhunterjoe]

I guess my goal is to be very competitive with my buddies. most are in the low budget bracket, but even still, they are getting very close to the 12 second mark. some are more modified than others. to be quick with these guys and have a close to stock 440-6 would be cool. I did buy a cam from bob k. he also said do a plunge cut on the 906's. I also have a 4 speed. engine is rebuilt but not in the car yet.

I seriously doubt a stock rebuild 6 pack, 2 ton charger is going to be very competitive against 12 second cars. Only way is if they cant drive. You will need alot more work put into the engine and chassis.

[rt green]

well, that kind of goes down like a bad lunch. but i spose i'll have to eat it.

[BSB67]

I guess my goal is to be very competitive with my buddies..............they are getting very close to the 12 second mark.

This car was running 13.0s (at about 107) with about as stock of a car as you can get.

Good grief...forgot the pic the first time

[c00nhunterjoe]

well, that kind of goes down like a bad lunch. but i spose i'll have to eat it.

Lol. Not trying to bust a bubble. But I dont want to lead you on either.
 4 speed cars require a great deal of skill to drag race. Not to be mean, but can you actually shift? Ive seen plenty of cars go 3/4 to a full second slower then they should because of the driver's shifts.
  Then we have your engine. You said its basicly a stock rebuild with a cam? Do you know exactly what was done? Ie pistons used, decked block? You could have anywhere from an 8:1-10:1 engine depending on how it was done.
  If you have a healthy rebuild, sticky tires, decent gear, and your 4 speed sounds like a 727 when you shift, then I would say you can give your buddies a run for their money but to dip into the 12's is a stretch. Its not impossible, but dont get discouraged if it doesnt do it.

[BSB67]

Good grief...forgot the pic the first time

[c00nhunterjoe]

Good grief...forgot the pic the first time

Lol. I figured you were talking about your charger.

[rt green]

lets see. about 4 years or more ago I assembled this engine together. back then, I was buying High Life 30 packs and left alone in the garage with my own inventions. now I have to go through it again and double check myself.   I remember is sealed power 9.5 to one pistons at 30 over, six pack rods, '71 hp block and crank. arp rod bolts. don't know deck height. stock 906 heads. repo 440 mopar cam. decided to get a cam from bob k. and go through it again. when I get in there again, i'll know more. the machine shop said it passed for balance, but I see no marks anywhere.