73 rear tail light socket changing do I have to remove whole bumper?

[WH23G3G]

I shouldve done this when I got used tail light assemblies when I put on my rechromed rear bumper now I'm sorry I didn't. It was almost impossible to get the old sockets into the new/used housing. Now I've got a bad connection on one of the brake lights. I got new sockets that are easier to install and remove. But getting the old ones out is causing trouble. I removed nuts in the trunk and the license plate bracket. I was able to access the reverse light sockets but couldn't get to either of the other two sockets through there. The plastic pins that hold the tail light assembly are impossible to get out now. I already broke the top off of one of the pins. I don't want to break the already fragile tail light housings. Is there anyway to easily access the sockets without removing the whole bumper? Why isn't anyone remaking these tail light housings? Everyone I see is pretty much destroyed but they remake stuff that doesn't really get cracked or broken.

[ODZKing]

Is there anyway to easily access the sockets without removing the whole bumper?

No. And it is a stupid design that not only do you have to remove the bumper to replace the housing but that the sockets are moulded INTO the housing.

Why isn't anyone remaking these tail light housings? Everyone I see is pretty much destroyed but they remake stuff that doesn't really get cracked or broken.

VERY good question.  According to Mike at BE&A, "Charger guys won't pay the price for the repops". I asked him about grilles and housings for 73/74. 73 was the largest production year ever. And all these either look crappy or are broken front and rear.

[Nacho-RT74]

mmm actually is it posible remove the housing without remove the bumper, however if you have the bumper guards, need to remove license plate bracket to get room and play here and there to be able to do it.

But wondering now ( this can be some kind of highjack )... how do you have attached the tail lights housings to bumpers ?

My car got originally plastic plugs going through  bumper provisions/brackets and holding tail lights. When resintalling, fit plastic fasteners attached to housing and using selftaping screws. So I remove selftaping screws, and remove housing from bumper as mentioned.

[ODZKing]

The tabs on mine were broken. They are now bolted on. They're going nowhere!

[WH23G3G]

That's what I thought. I'm wondering if I could sneak up through the valance panel. Still it would be hard to cut and splice these new connectors without removing the whole assembly. After all this I hope these connectors work. They are the Dorman 2 wire 1157 connectors. I'm going to try anyway.

[WH23G3G]

Well I was able to get to the socket and now I'm sorry I did it. I got the Dorman universal 85860 1157 sockets which I thought would work because it has the stop prongs to keep it in place. Well when I went to put it in it didn't work out quite like I thought. Also I didn't anticipate being the 3rd wire on the back of the original socket. I'm guessing it's the ground wire. How do I make it that work since I only have to wires coming out of these 85860 sockets? I don't see how I'm going to get these 85860 sockets to stay put in the housing because those prongs don't hold it from falling out, they hold them from falling in. I stopped before I messed it up more. I was planning on getting it out and driving it around Saturday or Sunday evening. Now I don't think I will be able to. Is there any new aftermarket sockets that will hold in the housing. They were turning when installing the bulbs and pushing it everytime because it was so hard to reinstall original sockets that weren't made to ever come out.

[ODZKing]

Only thing you can do now is mold the new socket in with something like JB Weld or epoxy.  Maybe put a tiny screw in the give it support and keep it from turning. And be sure that no water can get in so it is water tight and secure.
Told ya , it's a terrible design!

[Nacho-RT74]

actually there is more "correct" sockets for our application than those Dorman, which even still needs some trim out into the housing, are better fit.

The problem is CAN'T RECALL WHICH ONE IS THE ONE. Will search

ground wire... sold it to the socket. There is not replacement socket with ground wire attached... closer available is with a prong, but they are like that Dorman one, with big diameter socket seat.

[WH23G3G]

Well this was a disaster before I got any further into it. So I had my friend come over and we rewired the orginal socket that I had already cut and put it back in. I partially broke one of the tail light housing pin tabs but not totally. The others are still in tact and they are overall good housing assemblies. He told me I could use a dot of JB Kwik on the mounting flange of each tail light socket to hold it in the housing from spinning if I ever have to change a bulb. But I would never be able to get the sockets out without breaking them. So I haven't figured out what to do about that yet. Is there any other pins I could use that aren't so tight to hold the housing in? I think the push pins I had in were too big and they were really hard to get all the way out. Anyway the brake lights work correctly when the headlight switch is off, signals too, no reverse lights though. Now if you would be driving at night with the headlights on and you hit the brakes the passenger side rear middle brake light bulb goes out, but all other three work. And also at night with headlights on the tail lights light up fine, just whenever you hit the brakes the middle bulb goes out and the other three work. Also right now I don't know if it has anything to do with this problem, I don't have a bulb in this side's reverse light socket. I broke the bulb. Any ideas?

[Nacho-RT74]

if you ask me this is a "more correct looking and fitment" replacement socket... which anyway will still require some trimming to the housing, glue and ground source to chassis

http://www.oemsurplus911.com/automotive/lightsockets/8536.htm

more options:

http://www.oemsurplus911.com/automotive/ligtsockets.htm

this is the one which provides a ground tab to chassis:

http://www.oemsurplus911.com/automotive/lightsockets/8543.htm

but as mentnioned, to bigger holes provision... requires a bigger trimming

[WH23G3G]

Those are like the Dorman's I got. Looks like it will be too much work to get them working. So I rewired the one old socket back into the original harness and am going to try and fix it. I also found out what caused the middle passenger side rear brake light to not work when the headlight switch is on. The ground wire in the socket was just about broken in half, and now it is. I'm only going to do it on this side for now since the other side works right. But I'm cutting back the wires on each socket, derusting the socket housing and internal spring, and installing the socket in the housing first flared out so it won't turn and then soldering the wires back to the harness. I think it might work. One small problem though why is it so hard to get the solder to stick to the copper wiring? Am I using the wrong solder? Hopefully this won't keep me down too long because it's been a month since I've even had the car started and I need to get it out on the road.

[ODZKing]

One small problem though why is it so hard to get the solder to stick to the copper wiring? Am I using the wrong solder? Hopefully this won't keep me down too long because it's been a month since I've even had the car started and I need to get it out on the road.

Rosin core.  But I have had the same issue with some of the older wiring.  Solder just won't stick. I don't know why.

[Nacho-RT74]

Those are like the Dorman's I got.

the one with the ground tab yes, not the other one. diameter is WAY smaller on the one I suggested, easier to fit

[Pete in NH]

Those are like the Dorman's I got. Looks like it will be too much work to get them working. So I rewired the one old socket back into the original harness and am going to try and fix it. I also found out what caused the middle passenger side rear brake light to not work when the headlight switch is on. The ground wire in the socket was just about broken in half, and now it is. I'm only going to do it on this side for now since the other side works right. But I'm cutting back the wires on each socket, derusting the socket housing and internal spring, and installing the socket in the housing first flared out so it won't turn and then soldering the wires back to the harness. I think it might work. One small problem though why is it so hard to get the solder to stick to the copper wiring? Am I using the wrong solder? Hopefully this won't keep me down too long because it's been a month since I've even had the car started and I need to get it out on the road.

The old wire gets oxidized with age and the flux in the solder can't break it down enough to get the solder to flow. Many of the new fluxes are also not as active as the older fluxes. The EPA has forced a move in the electronics industry to get the lead out of solder and go to water wash fluxes, neither of which was an improvement in solder performance.

Yes, use a rosin core solder. I use a single edge razor blade to scrape the strands of the oxidized wire until it is shiny copper and then the solder will stick and flow. Scrape the wire strands and then re-twist then together before tinning with solder. 

[workworkwork]

One of my taillight housing moves around in the hole while the other side doesn't move at all. Took the lense out and didn't see anywhere that is screwed into anything. From this thread is sounds like there are some form of plastic pins. I guess mine are likely broken. So, what is the repair that can be done regarding bolting them in place? I didn't quite understand that. If I understand this thread you have to remove the bumper to do anything with this housing? Did I get that correct?

[WH23G3G]

I know on my 73 I had to at least loosen the bumper in the trunk and remove the tag bracket just to get at the back of the housing. There were three push pins holding the housing into the bumper, 1 on top, and 2 on the bottom. We were able to get the pins out but I have to now get new pins because we had to destroy them but they are just regular push pins. I think it was hard because the push pins I had weren't original and the diameter was too big so they were really tight. The heads broke off and I had to push the remaining through with the hold soldering iron but be careful not to melt the plastic tabs the pins go through. We broken one halfway. If I repair this broken wire the lights should function correct. Then I won't mess with the other side since it's working fine right now.

[Nacho-RT74]

ok, so they were push pins like my Charger assemblied in Venezuela

[WH23G3G]

Actually I was looking at the Chrsyler body manual and according to the illustration the housings are held to the bumper with Speed-nuts and screw. Two on the bottom and one on the top. Does anyone have those originally? I don't know what size they would be? It would make more sense too, a lot easier to get out than push pins.

[ODZKing]

I've never seen speed nuts on the housings.  Only push pins and always broken.  

[Nacho-RT74]

as far I know, pot metal housings where like that ( 71 R/T-72 Rallyes and all the rest 72s )

[VegasCharger]

Never seen a speed nut mount? I never seen or heard of push pins
Here are pics of my old housing mounts. Each housing had one on top and two on the bottom. Yes a poor design. I believe on the top mount that the thickness of the bolt head would interfere with the clearance of the rear bumper mounting flange  Also I believe that the speed bolts were a 1/2" hex head. And just when you think you know everything about a 73 Dodge Charger. I would like to see the push pins just to appetite my curiousity.

Pic #1 is top mount

Pic #2 is one of the bottom mounts

[ODZKing]

Never seen them on the tail lamps, no. My original 73, this one and every one I have seen in a yard were the plastic pins and ... broken!
And the plastic on the housing usually broken as well as seen in th epic I posted.

[Nacho-RT74]

All manuals ilustrate that kind of assembly, C nut and bolt, but is true, my car assemblied in Vzla ( as well those stated here assemblied in USA ), were with plastic pins going through bumper and housing. These push pins or plastic fasteners or whatever, were AS FAR I RECALL ( maybe 14 years ago since I removed mine ) something like this:

[VegasCharger]

That is strange, I've dealt with 3 of these cars in my life (2 - 73 SE's & 1 - 74 coupe) and all of them had the C nut/bolt design. These cars came from:

73 SE Ohio
73 SE Colorado
74 Coupe Ohio

Thanks for the info & pics ODZKing & Nacho

[WH23G3G]

I was able to find some spare 1/4 speed nuts and 1/4 body screws and fasten the housing back to the bumper. It goes together a lot easier. But I imagine after years of rust when you take those screws out the plastic tabs will come right with them. Bad design using either the push pins or speed nuts. I got it  back in now unfortunately the 1156 and 1156 LED bulbs I ordered won't fit the sockets because they can't be pushed in enough to lock because of the led diodes are too close to the base. I'm putting it standard 1156 and 1157 bulbs and just hopefully won't be driving it when it gets dark so my brake lights won't work properly.

[VegasCharger]

Do yourself a favor and use die electrical grease on your sockets/bulbs. Makes it easier to remove the bulbs when it comes time to replace them.

[E5 Charger]

Interesting. My tabs are broken and I don't have the fasteners. I guess both are correct. I'm sure the correct plastic fasteners are impossible to find, so bolts it is! What size and length are they?

[1973rallye]

I installed the housings on my white charger with the c nuts and smaller bolts. You have to be careful not to over tighten or you will snap the plastic tabs. Still run the risk of breaking the tabs installing the c nuts. My silver car has the push pins that hold the housings in place and that car has been pretty much untouched. Did you want me to snap a picture of what they look like Bryan?

[E5 Charger]

I think that would be a great idea 1973rallye. I've seen this discussion in the past, but no one had a photo of what they looked like.

[ODZKing]

I wonder if it is another St Louis vs Lynch Road thing.
Did you know the bumper/grille assembly is assembled differently depending on where the car came from? 

[E5 Charger]

I didn't. In what way?

[ODZKing]

OK, let me see if I can explain this properly. In the two pictures, you'll see one bracket has the bolts up with the nuts showing (St Louis) and in the second bolts down with the head showing (Lynch Road). That requires the four brackets that secure the grilles to be mounted in such a way so they have an even amount on either top or bottom of the grille.  They can be mounted either way and one way it will sit tight to the bottom or not depending on how the bolts go in. Mounted down they will hit the grill, again, if not mounted correctly.  I know it sounds stupid but when I was assembling my bumper and brackets I discovered this and asked for pictures from several members. Comparing the pictures I could see there was a difference in the way the were assembled, visibly by the bolts up or down.  Then discovered the square holes in the brackets where the plastic mount goes is ever so slightly higher or lower on the bracket, thus making the grille sit differently.
Another note, by adjusting these you can also install the grilles reverse - left/right - right left.

[E5 Charger]

Great detective work! 

[1973rallye]

I think that would be a great idea 1973rallye. I've seen this discussion in the past, but no one had a photo of what they looked like.

Well Bob. May have jumped the gun on this topic. The bumpers have been rechromed on this car, which means that the original method of securing the housings would have been removed. I had a look underneath and each of the two housings have a different style black nylon push retainer. I can't be sure if any of them would be original, but they hold the housings in place nicely. Ray