BudW 400 engine build (updated).

[BudW]

I'm building a stroked 400 for my ride and would like some advice.

I do have a Charger, but it draws too much attention from the friendly local police (pocket book frowns after I drive it).

My daily driver is a 4 door which I want to turn into a sleeper.  About 4,500 lbs (with my lard behind and kids in it) and is driven on the street 75% hwy 25%, about 20k miles a year.
It currently has a 318 2 bbl.  The entire powertrain is getting changed and parts for the transformation are almost gathered.

My main goal is to be QUIET and wife has to be able to drive it without giving me "the glance" (in other words, needs to be drivable).  Secondary goal is to wipe those rice burners off of the road and to last me a long time.

I've got a pair of (never been into before) 400's not yet torn down - but no noise nor smokes (yes, I know, I need to get apart and to machine shop – but I believe I have at least one good block).  The other engine may be built and put under the workbench, as a spare (it might look great next to my all original A12 440 and brand new '77 440 block under there).

I plan on running A/C, P/B and P/S.  I doubt I'll ever let engine get over 5500 RPM's.  I want the most torque I can muster, preferably at 2500 RPM's.  91 octane (100%) fuel usage, is a must.

Parts already purchased:
New stealth heads (unported.  Not yet gone through, but will be).
Performer (not RPM) 2186 intake and TQ
Alum water pump and housing.
727 been built to my specs and "should" have WoT shift points at 5100 RPM (not yet tested).
8¾" differential has been built with 2.94:1 Truetrak (I have a few lower and higher gearsets, but this is one I want to use).
Hi-Po Exhaust manifolds – cleaned up inside but not ported.  Heat riser tossed (won't work with Stealth heads).

Parts not yet purchased:
- Stroker kit.  
I'm not set on any one brand - but I do want only bore the cylinders least possible amount to clean up to be compatible with stroker kits.  
So far, the best I've seen (yes, I know I'm getting ahead of myself without engine disassembly) is 0.010" oversize which would give me a displacement of `470ci and a compression ratio of roughly 9.8:1.  If cleanup takes 0.035" then CR will be 9.9:1.  Both would give me a rod ratio of 1.67 (not sure that I want to go any lower than that).

I'd love to go 512 (or 540ci), but I don't like the idea of the connecting rod ratio's being that low, for long term lead foot use.

- I want to use Beehive valve springs – but I can't find much information about people actually using them (without issues) or who to use/what recommended part numbers.

- Camshaft selection  
440 Source recommendation ranges between 0.507" to 0.525" lift for stocked engines.
Comp Cans recommend their 21-222-4 (EX262H) – but I don't think they took into consideration the 400 will be stocked (I think ...).  That cam has a lift of Intake 0.462" /Exhaust 0.470".
(a huge difference).
I want a strong running engine that idles smooth, has max torque down low & max RPM at 5500.  Decent fuel economy would be nice, but being a QUIET (sleeper) daily driven torque monster, that wife wouldn't object to driving - ranks higher.   My 318 is only getting 10 MPG, as is.

Any input would be much appreciated!
Bud W

[Challenger340]

We did similar just for shits & giggles many years ago in a 440(worked) Black 1967 New Yorker, 3.23 cogged 8 3/4, stock exhaust, etc.
What a HOOT that Car was !
Plenty of room for 4 Idiots in Toques with a two-four of Beer( Great White North Canadians eh ?)
Back in those days there was lots to pick on.... Tin Indian Trans Ams, Gen II Camaro's etc., usually all piloted by John Travolta "grease" era wannabe's.
Dunno what was worse for them... losing to that BOAT in their white bell bottom pants in front of their chicky-poo... or having to watch us drunken window lickers peeing ourselves laughing out the windows as we went by ? (and usually complimenting on said co-pilot Chicky-poo's anatomy) 

Anyways IMO, (sounds like a fun project BTW)
* Camshaft is too small for stroked, and most certainly moreso carrying to 5,000rpm even with worked Stealths, Exhaust Manifolds, etc.
Play with the lsa, try opening to 112/113/114 lsa and add some .050 duration(228* to 234* ??), play with installed against Dynamic pressures once you have your low-lift Stealth Flow data, and set your final D.C.R. with Block Milling as req'd.
A very slightly "looser" than stock Torque Convertor might not be the end of the world either ? like maybe 2-400 rpm max ? your call. Personally I like the 3.23 depending upon actual rear tire "diameter" ?

* 1.47" to 1.48" C.D. Piston won't be too terrible for extended useage... I am assuming here a .400" long Chub 6.535" Rod ? on the 2.200" journal ?
Just make sure they have a BB Mopar Torque Plate no matter the final sizing ! 4032 Alloys can be fit VERY quiet running these days... NO noise at all !
* H-Pipe Exhaust ?
* Decent Mechanical Fuel Pump for the 5/16" Fuel lined 318 Body ?
* Spend some "time" on that 2186 manifold !

[BSB67]

We did similar just for shits & giggles many years ago in a 440(worked) Black 1967 New Yorker, 3.23 cogged 8 3/4, stock exhaust, etc.
What a HOOT that Car was !
Plenty of room for 4 Idiots in Toques with a two-four of Beer( Great White North Canadians eh ?)
Back in those days there was lots to pick on.... Tin Indian Trans Ams, Gen II Camaro's etc., usually all piloted by John Travolta "grease" era wannabe's.
Dunno what was worse for them... losing to that BOAT in their white bell bottom pants in front of their chicky-poo... or having to watch us drunken window lickers peeing ourselves laughing out the windows as we went by ? (and usually complimenting on said co-pilot Chicky-poo's anatomy) 

Anyways IMO, (sounds like a fun project BTW)
* Camshaft is too small for stroked, and most certainly moreso carrying to 5,000rpm even with worked Stealths, Exhaust Manifolds, etc.
Play with the lsa, try opening to 112/113/114 lsa and add some .050 duration(228* to 234* ??), play with installed against Dynamic pressures once you have your low-lift Stealth Flow data, and set your final D.C.R. with Block Milling as req'd.
A very slightly "looser" than stock Torque Convertor might not be the end of the world either ? like maybe 2-400 rpm max ? your call. Personally I like the 3.23 depending upon actual rear tire "diameter" ?

That is pretty funny.

I agree with your recommendations too.

To the OP, with a larger cam and a 114 LSA with a 112 ICL you might find 10.4 CR is what you should shoot for.  I hate to leave power on the table.

[firefighter3931]

Hi Bud....welcome to the madness ! 

Here's a build that is exactly what you're looking for :

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,43911.0.html

Just use the 440 source low deck stroker kit with your 400 block and you can achieve the same results. 



Ron

[BudW]

* Camshaft is too small for stroked, and most certainly moreso carrying to 5,000rpm even with worked Stealths, Exhaust Manifolds, etc.

This is reason I was asking.  Things were just not adding up.

A very slightly "looser" than stock Torque Convertor might not be the end of the world either ? like maybe 2-400 rpm max ? your call. Personally I like the 3.23 depending upon actual rear tire "diameter" ?

I'm not going to disagree.  My thought was to use a "stockish" converter I currently have and re-evaluate after install.  I don't want the tire frying experience at initial takeoff so was thinking the stock converter would help with that.

Same goes for the 2.94 with my 27" tires.  I have good 3:23's and I love 'em, but not sure if I want that ratio for this application.   They can be changed later if needed.
Side note: I have plans on keeping the factory wire locking hubcaps on the car with wider wheels/tires, to keep the appearance I want.

* H-Pipe Exhaust ?

Exhaust (after manifolds) hasn't been thought fully yet.  I don't like having exhaust drone noise from too big of exhaust pipes.  A thought I have on the backburner is maybe going with 4 mufflers with a BMW style valve that opens the secondary mufflers using a carb microswitch or RPM range.  Need to get engine done first before getting too excited about the exhaust system.

* Decent Mechanical Fuel Pump for the 5/16" Fuel lined 318 Body ?

In my collection, there are several good mechanical fuel pumps.  Another item I have on the backburner is maybe going with electric fuel pump for anti-theft purposes, maybe.  I need to get a new fuel line installed (due to rust or "not yet" rust prevention) and this model didn't come with 3/8" lines.  I think I'll be OK with (new) 5/16" lines.

* Spend some "time" on that 2186 manifold !

Can I get more information on this?  Port match and cleanup is on my list of "to do".  I want the car to look stock/untouched to all but the necked eye and have auto choke operation.
 

Hi Bud....welcome to the madness ! 

Here's a build that is exactly what you're looking for :

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,43911.0.html

Just use the 440 source low deck stroker kit with your 400 block and you can achieve the same results. 

Ron

Do you think the Engle K60H Camshaft is what I'm looking for?

Thank you,
BudW

[Cooter]

Like the idea. I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss those "ricers"....some here on the streets are loud, but make over 700 HP. Gonna be kinda hard to 'leave' em in the dust with no gear, hardly any stall, and dump truck engine. Just my .02

[BudW]

Like the idea. I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss those "ricers"....some here on the streets are loud, but make over 700 HP. Gonna be kinda hard to 'leave' em in the dust with no gear, hardly any stall, and dump truck engine. Just my .02

Well, I can't disagree with that thought at all (other than I kinda look like an adult version of a dump truck – so maybe Cooter knows me ... ).

I'll admit that my foot is part lead/part iron but that said, there is no intention to take on just anyone - nor do I punch it from the line that often.  I kinda like to go at least 10-15 mph before exercising the secondary's.

About 25-30k miles, is what I plan on driving this car each year, so "no gear" makes sense for me long term.

Does anyone have any advice on Beehive springs for a big block?

Thank you,
BudW

For the heavy lifting, there is a Cummins in my 1 ton Dodge.

[firefighter3931]

* Decent Mechanical Fuel Pump for the 5/16" Fuel lined 318 Body ?

Here's a build that is exactly what you're looking for :

Do you think the Engle K60H Camshaft is what I'm looking for?

Thank you,
BudW

Yep, if you're looking for a mil manner street stroker the K60 or something with similar specs is a good choice. 


Ron

[BudW]

I finally got my 400 block stripped down and ready to send to machine shop (to get cleaned/bored/prepped for stroker kit) - but also been waiting to get my pickup fixed to take it (which pickup is finally fixed). 
Measurements indicate it will take about 0.020" (or more) to clean up – so that should work with the stroker kits I've seen.

Meanwhile, I stumbled across and promptly purchased a NOS 400 short block (about 99% rust free) - for about the amount I budgeted for machine shop expenses (I purchased it a whole lot less than I'd expected to) – so now I'm in faced with a dilemma.


Do I put the new short block away for future use and send the old to the machine shop – or put old block put away for future use (or sell) and use the new block?
The new short block has a cast iron crank and low compression pistons – which will get tossed for stroker crank (actually, both 400's have cast cranks – which will get tossed).

To use the new block, I assume one would need to get custom pistons made for it (boring a perfectly good (i.e. new) cylinder is simply out of the question). 
If so, anyone have recommendations for pistons, for long term durability?

The pros for using old block:
-   Already seasoned
-   Will accept off of the shelf strocker parts
Cons:
-   Need to find new $ for machine shop expenses.
-   ?

New block Pro's:
-   Should be longer overall engine life (i.e.: stock bore).
-   No machine shop expenses (I would "assume" the factory used torque plates on assembly line – but not really sure).
-   99% rust free (just need to clean the Cosmoline -  )
Cons:
-   Cosmoline cleanup
-   Need non-standard pistons (for stroker kit).
-   ?

Anyone have suggestions or recommendations on which block to use (and why)?
If people are recommending using new, anyone have recommendations for (standard bore) pistons (and why)?
Any "good" way to clean/remove Cosmoline?

Thank you for your input,
BudW

[BSB67]

In my opinion the "new" short block is nothing more than a bare block.  Especially if you are going to  stroke it.  The only machining that you'll save would be on boring the block, which is not much, and you'll likely need more expensive pistons.