Headlight door options for a 2nd gen.

[keith88]

Hi everyone When i bought my charger the headlight doors did not work most of the parts are missing from the lights back. My questions what is out there to either convert to electric or is there a vacuum motor that you can buy to rig something up. I already have an issue with not enough vacuum for the brakes so i dont think it would be a good idea to bring it back to stock. I know charger specialties sells a kit to convert to electric motors but that is costly and dont want to spend that type of money if i dont have to. Looking for options.

[TexasStroker]

I believe a member on here had made something with electric motors, but I honestly can't remember who or how long ago?!  I'm sure someone else can spec it out.

Seems like several have used the Charger Specialties kit with good results.

Do you have the canister under the battery tray?  A lot of people chuck it and then subsequent owners are unaware of it etc.

[keith88]

No i am missing the canister as well.

[TexasStroker]

Might be worth trying the canister before you shell out any more money than that...The doors don't always open lightning fast, but they are good enough.

[keith88]

I have nothing from the lights back. And im running a can on the brakes and its just enough ...almost to make the brakes work.
Thinking heavily on electric set up but did not know  what is out there and if there is some sort of vacuum pump set up that might work.

[A383Wing]

the aftermarket electric set up will set you back just under $500

[JamieZ]

I converted mine to electric using some linear actuators off ebay, some relays and some metal to make the brackets.

Around page 3 on my For B Bodies Only restoration thread has some details:
http://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/showthread.php?60200-JamieZ-s-68-Charger

It helps if you have some experience with wiring.

[Mike DC]

                       
                             

[Ghoste]

If there is nothing in there now couldn't you adapt almost anything in there, like door motors from a later model Firebird or something even?

[keith88]

I have the actuators and some of the hose but that is it. Just trying to see what is available to make them work with out a big bill. just looking to see what people have done to fix theirs.  Im open to any thing that would work.

[A383Wing]

do you have the headlight switch assembly and does it work?? (The vacuum part)

[keith88]

I have the assembly but the vacuum lines are there but not attached.

[Dino]

Sounds like all you need is the vacuum attachment at the switch and a vacuum can.  These parts are readily available so it should be easy to restore back to stock specs.  New vacuum hoses are costly if you want the factory correct ones but it works just as well with the cheaper autoparts store hoses.

[keith88]

I'm looking to get away from the vacuum operation unless i can run some sort of pump to run it off. I don't believe that the vacuum is good enough to run them seeing that i already have brake issues with the vacuum.

[Dino]

Sorry, I missed the part on the brakes.  A pump would do it but you're probably better off doing what Jamie did.

[keith88]

Yea that's what im thinking been searching actuators all morning just to see whats out there. Going to need to know the travel of the headlight door arm to go much farther.

[JamieZ]

If i remember correctly you only need about 2" of travel.  the actuators i got are internally limited too so i did not need to wire in limit switches

[keith88]

Really looking hard at what you did found a couple of possibles on eBay. How did your end up fitting?  and do you have any finished pics of it and maybe the bracket that attached it to the door rod.

[A383Wing]

that's why there is a can there to store the vacuum ......it has a check valve in it

[keith88]

I have a can on the brakes that is why i have the brake that i have dont want to push it.

[JamieZ]

If you can make the bracket well enough you can just use the stock brackets to attach them to the bar. 

Here are some other photos during the assembly.







The only real fitment issue I had was the actuators were a bit wider and would hit the bumper brackets if not positioned right.  Since the arm is off center you can flip them left to right to get them aligned.  As you can see from this picture the actuators are both mounted the same way (arm on right)

I had to flip one of them so the arm was on the left to clear the bracket.  It was just a matter of unbolting it, flipping it and bolting it back on.

[keith88]

Thanks for them pics would you happen to still know the size of the actuators ,like how tall, wide, length open/closed?

[keith88]

Would this work:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Set-of-2-Linear-Actuators-2-Stroke-225-Pound-Max-Lift-12-24-Volt-DC-Heavy-Duty-/330766925725?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d033ebf9d

[JamieZ]

They look the same let me take some measurements this weekend

[c00nhunterjoe]

Why do you feel you dont have enough vaccum to run them? You said you dont want a big bill so it sounds cheapest to hook yours up via the factory style. How much vaccum does your engine produce? I highly doubt its less then mine and my doors function fine. I also am not running a reserve canister so you are a step ahead of me. Worth a shot to just hook them up and try before sinking alot of time and money into an electric conversion.

[keith88]

Car has 20 at idle 1st brake pedal hit 18 at 2nd hit 15 and hard pedal at 3rd,at that point i have to hit the gas to get the vac up again. I always liked the electric idea anyway and would probably have done it any way at some point.

[A383Wing]

20 at idle is enough...way more than enough...just get a newer small plastic storage can from a Dakota or something from the mid-90's and you are set...maybe less then $30 total in parts including hoses

[keith88]

Those measurements are taken at the vacuum can already shows you how it drops as it hit the brake. Stops fine when i 1st hit it so i try not to many times. 

[A383Wing]

so you must not have a check valve in the line, right? I would look into getting yer brakes fixed correctly before spending that needed money on something else first

we ain't talking about brakes here, all we are talking about is getting a little can to hold the vacuum for the headlight pods. They don't take to much to operate.

[keith88]

The brakes are new including booster master proportional valve and rotors and pads and bearing,Yes there is a check valve. Nothing wrong there. The issue is the engine dose not produce enough vacuum to replace it at idle. I really dont want to do a vacuum system for the lights i want to convert to electric.

[A383Wing]

so all you do is idle around with the car??

if car is driven normally, you will get 20-25hg of vacuum in the tank or vacuum can every time you let off the gas. Check valve is what keeps it in there until needed

[keith88]

Your not understanding what happens the car is fine when you drive it at idle the engine is not producing enough vacuum to replenish what is being used.  The idle in drive is around 700 rpm  in order to produce vacuum it has to be around 1200 than it is fine so if your just crawling under that rpm there isn't any vacuum to replace what is used unless to rev it up. The vacuum will slowly go down the more you hit the brake under that 1200 rpm. I have always been in the habit of pumping the pedal, not good after the 1st few times at a lower rpm.The booster is new so it needs all the vacuum it can get.

[keith88]

The biggest issue i have is at cruises where you are at an idle already and not going that fast to build up vacuum.The stop and go along with the backing up at such low rpms is where most of my problem happens.

[A383Wing]

Why do you feel you don't have enough vacuum to run them? You said you don't want a big bill so it sounds cheapest to hook yours up via the factory style. How much vacuum does your engine produce? I highly doubt its less then mine and my doors function fine. I also am not running a reserve canister so you are a step ahead of me. Worth a shot to just hook them up and try before sinking a lot of time and money into an electric conversion.

I agree, he's not understanding how little vacuum it takes to operate the doors for the headlights....

[keith88]

Well if i dont run a can i dont have brakes. I dont want to spend a LOT of money to do this via the kit that is out there for 500 but if i can do it for a couple hundred that's OK. And i believe that i can do it for less than 150 by the way that Jamiez did his and that's all right with me. I want to convert and what he said it will be a good winter project.

[Dino]

Nothing wrong with going electric, but it seems something is just not right with your vacuum system.  I don't think it's normal to lose vacuum while braking.  Seems to me there's a leak or a busted check valve somewhere.

[JamieZ]

My conversion used 3 relays.  All the 87/87A variety (meaning they have one normally open and one normally closed output).

Here is the wiring diagram I put together.

[Troy]

I'm late to this thread but Charger Specialties makes an electric headlight kit:
http://www.chargerspecialties.com/new_product.htm

I'd assume you could make them cheaper if you had the time and expertise.

Troy

[keith88]

There is nothing wrong with the vacuum it been looked at by a mechanic It is normal,some cams dont produce vacuum at low rpms. And i don know that i wouldn't have enough to make them work but i want to make them electric. I know about the charger specialties kit but i believe i can do it for under $150  with a little work my self.

Jamiez.. I an interested in the dimensions of the brackets that you made to hold the actuators as well especially if they are the same dimensions as the ones you used.

[keith88]

jamieZ have you had the chance to measure what your using yet? I also would like some dimensions on the brackets you made to hold them as well. Thanks 

[JamieZ]

Sorry for the delay, the alignment and a few other things have been frustrating me to the point where I don't want to look at the car.


I took some measurements, but they are very rough as the stuff is all mounted on the car and it's not easy to get to.  When I constructed it, I just took the actuator, and bent a piece of cardboard around it.  I used that to build my brackets from metal.  Unfortunately I no longer have that piece of cardboard, but the measurements really weren't that critical.  All that matter is they fit on the existing brackets and the 2" of travel was enough to open and close all the doors.

[keith88]

Thank you for that info Before i buy the actuator dose the link i gave look like its the ones you got they look the same to me.

[JamieZ]

They look similar.  I checked my eBay history and found the seller and description of the items I bought.  This is his current auction for them (he sells single actuators):


http://www.ebay.com/itm/171089641267

[keith88]

Thanks just searched on eBay what you had, found the same  for $39 ill go with those.  Thanks for your help, ill be putting the car away for the winter tomorrow and will buy these sometime after Xmas and give them a shot.  You know i will be following what you did closely, again thanks.

[TexasGeneral]

I thought about using a solenoid with a spring return. Using the headlamp circuit to power the solenoid so the doors open when powered on and close when off..

[fy469rtse]

Can some one post photos of vacuum check valve and where it's supposed to be ?
I'm going to have vacuum issues as well , problem I've created with big stroker engine