new member with Auto Trans linkage Q

[Roctania]

Greetings, first post, just joined.
Oldsmobile guy working on resto-mod 1971 Challenger with 440 Auto trans. Learning a lot. 

1) One of the issues is that the vertical bellcrank rod that goes thru the car floor wants to fall out of the lower brace, upwards.  It came right out of the plastic bushing before we put in the new trans aft end mount.  Now it's better but it can still be move up and out of the lower bushing.  Seems like it should be a longer rod.  The car was a basket case so who knows what parts came from where.

2) batter ground cable should go exactly where? I have AL Edelbrock heads and March multigroove Fail-Belt system. 

3) AC operation system evidently feeds vacuum to under dash from engine, but what I have is a tiny line like under 1/8" diameter.  I ordered a proper brake booster vacuum nipple from stevesparts on ePay, but what is the correct method to feed vacuum to the AC controls.  I was not involved in the resto of the dash parts, so maybe the tiny hose is wrong?

4) At the front of the slapstick floor shifter assembly is a spring with fairly stiff wire, about 2-3" per leg on a coil about 1" around.  The obvious place for it, RH front, it just keeps falling off.  I can't find a good illustration as to how this mounts exactly.  Any tips appreciated.

I got the kickdown linkage figured out with internet searches and whatnot.  Hoping the Edelbrock carb has the right length of throw to properly run the trans kickdown, but I can work around that if need be with math and welding and whatnot.

Original air cleaner hits the hood due to the hi rise intake.  Not sure what to do there.  I do have handy at the site three other full vehicles to serve as Life Size service manuals, but neither is AC or Auto Trans.  One is a '68 Hemi, my favorite.

Thanks for any tips.  Hope I can contribute in return.

[c00nhunterjoe]

i wont be much help on a 71 with the exception of the aircleaner problem. summit or jegs all carry drop bases for them to take care of your hood issues.

[Moparparts]

There are 2 common types of lower trans brackets with the bushing for console automatics, one curves upward and the other down ward. The type you are using must correspond with the vertical bell crank you are using or you will have the problem you are describing. There is a bell crank for a 70 E-Body & early B including many year A-Bodies and one for a 71-74 E or B-Body If you post some pics or e-mail them to me i or others can let you know which ones you have. The tension spring mounts in the flat plate with the hooked notch in it that mounts to the front floor hump console bracket and the other end goes into the hole on the lever that is on top of your bellcrank where the upper rod fastens.

Greetings, first post, just joined.
Oldsmobile guy working on resto-mod 1971 Challenger with 440 Auto trans. Learning a lot. 

1) One of the issues is that the vertical bellcrank rod that goes thru the car floor wants to fall out of the lower brace, upwards.  It came right out of the plastic bushing before we put in the new trans aft end mount.  Now it's better but it can still be move up and out of the lower bushing.  Seems like it should be a longer rod.  The car was a basket case so who knows what parts came from where.

4) At the front of the slapstick floor shifter assembly is a spring with fairly stiff wire, about 2-3" per leg on a coil about 1" around.  The obvious place for it, RH front, it just keeps falling off.  I can't find a good illustration as to how this mounts exactly.  Any tips appreciated.

[John_Kunkel]

I got the kickdown linkage figured out with internet searches and whatnot.  Hoping the Edelbrock carb has the right length of throw to properly run the trans kickdown, but I can work around that if need be with math and welding and whatnot.

You need a special Mopar throttle lever extension for that carb, P/N 1481.

http://www.jegs.com/i/Edelbrock/350/1481/10002/-1?parentProductId=

If the linkage was originally for a 4-barrel the extension is all you'll need, if the linkage was 2-barrel you'll need an extension also available from Edelbrock.

[Roctania]

Thanks for the input, folks

I will get photos.  Part of the problem is that the car is 10 miles away and I do not have a key to the place so I get to work on it about once a week.  The shifter spring thing I go look for internet photos on it. We have a Chilton's vague manual - does not even show kickdown or how to adjust- and sort of a factory assembly manual, photocopied, missing trans section #12...  Oh, and since the car was a basket case initially, the parts might be from this or ANY OTHER CAR at all.  

"You need a special Mopar throttle lever extension for that carb, P/N 1481."

Will get that item.  Will ck exactly what brand/ model the carb is.  

I bought this for the carb and kickdown
http://www.ebay.com/itm/380992453923?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

It does not matter which timing cover hole gets the 1/2" heater hose and which gets the 5/8 hose, right?

I am under the impression this 71 Challenger is an E body- right?
I am used to GM-speak, where
A-body is smallest [Cutlass, Chevelle, Skylark, Tempest, GTO...],
B- and C-body are Big Cars [88, 98, Bonneville, Caprice..., and
E-body is Toronado/FWD, Eldorado maybe, etc

[fy469rtse]

Yep E body , looks nice , yes doesn't matter where the heater box gets vacuum , of port at the back of engine base of carby, where power booster vacuum is sourced,
Yes you can get up to a 2 " inch drop base for air cleaner clearance , just make sure it clears linkages, usually the only issue,
Photos will help, rather then lost in car translation lol

[John_Kunkel]

It does not matter which timing cover hole gets the 1/2" heater hose and which gets the 5/8 hose, right?

A '71 pump housing would have two different pipe threads for the heater nipples, 3/8"NPT at the rear (upper) and 1/2"NPT at the front. If yours has equal sized holes the rear hole is where 1/2" hose would go.

[Roctania]

One of the problems is that NOTHING on this car is stock  
The timing cover is chromed or polished AL.  
As I recall we had

1/8 NPT driver side appears correct for gages sender for engine temp

Three 1/2" NPT fittings RH side:

one appears to go to the low pressure portion near the center of the water pump, for suction.  One heater hose went to this hole on the passenger side.

The other two NPT holes are nearer the intake or head, and are adjacent [therefore at the same pressure].  So, I used one of the equal pressure holes for temp sensor for the electric fans, one for the heater hose.  

pix later, working on it today if i can get off the couch
Thanks, Roctania

[John_Kunkel]

The cast part that you're calling the timing cover is actually the water pump housing and is originally cast iron, aluminum is aftermarket; the timing cover is stamped steel.

The upper holes are hot coolant out to the heater, you'll need a 3/8"-1/2" reducer bushing to allow the nipple for the 1/2" hose to be used there. The lower hole is return from the heater and is the 5/8" hose.

[Roctania]

Perfect
Thanks for the help, and proper names of these parts - water pump housing for example.

I ordered the 1481 carb adapter, $12 delivered, Amazon

let me try another photo:

If you work with spring ring hose clamps, GET THESE SNAP-ON PLIERS !!

[Roctania]

OK, here is why I think I have the wrong vertical shifter bellcrank rod and/or lower support.  Fixed FOR NOW by hammering more bend into the bracket that mounts to the trans.  Still not really adequate.  Shifter rod adjustment is not finalized yet in these photos- more on that later. 

[Roctania]

Now for the horizontal shifter rod from lower end of vertical bellcrank to selector arm on trans.  Meh.  Struggles.  The rod hits on the new trans cooler line- bend line towards inboard. Rod hits on ear sticking out of trans - welded on ear? Then, with slapstick in Park, I can't quite put the trans selector arm in Park to make the rod adjustment, because the fatter part of the rod hits the adjuster before the trans arm is back far enough.

I have tried two different arms on the trans, neither seems correct.  Either way, the fat part of the rod hits the adjuster at the aft end before the trans feels like it is in Park properly. Maybe the "upstairs" [in the console] horizontal rod from slapstick to bellcrank is too short?  [see other note here about grinding the bellcrank in order to allow the shifter to go all the way into Low]

The trans selector rod is about 10.3" overall length, with the fat part ending about 8" from the center of the fwd-end pivot.  The trans arms cannot be flipped over, or the arm would stick into the trans, so that orientation has to be right. The straight arm was initially used, but then we found that the kickdown [KD] rod interfered, so the offset PRNDSL arm was tried, and it solved that issue.  

Orientations:
The fwd end of the P--L [Park to Low] selector rod enters its trans arm upwards, with the convoluted springy hard to install retainer clip on top of the trans arm.  At the aft end of the undercar P--L horizontal rod, the adjuster's pin goes upward thru the bellcrank arm, with a retainer and anti-rattle clip residing atop the bellcrank arm.

The lowest kickdown [KD] rod enters its trans arm downward, with a hairpin clip retaining it under the KD arm.  So, just a little rod and a retainer from each resides between the two arms. Note that I was not happy with the lowest KD rod entering the trans arm at an angle of about 20 degrees, so I bent the lower end of this rod to better match the trans's KD arm where it enters. But, let's not get into the KD linkage just yet.  I need Park thru Low to work.  


First pic shows that with trans lever in Park [not sure which trans lever... but both do this] and slapstick in Park, we see that the fat part of the rod wants to reside -in- the adjuster.  So, rod has to be shorter, or bellcrank lower end arm has to be further aft- by quite a bit- it would take about 1-1.5" to get in the middle of the adjustment. 



second pic shows the two P-L rods that were tried, and the length of the horizontal rod under the car from vertical bellcrank to trans selector arm.  

[Roctania]

OK, Slapstick shifter "upstairs", in the car

I believe my partner in crime here was putting the spring in wrong, with coil out forward, but otherwise mounted to these ears:



With his method, every time the shifter moved, the spring popped out.  With this installation, it feels right and has not popped out yet. 

Turns out the floorpan has been replaced.  The floor pan brackets were TOO CLOSE TOGETHER by almost 1/4" and so the shifter could not be mounted w/o cross threading the screws.  I procured the proper HARD to find 10-24 SEMS screws with dog point, then noticed the measurement was wrong when the screws would not go in the freshly tapped holes.  Hammer was used to relocate the aft bracket to get spacing correct to match shifter.  ~JOY!~

Well, not quite.  Now the shifter hits on the trans tunnel.... owner shows up.... says, "dent it out of the way".  Good call.  1 minute later the shifter is properly in place and slaps 1 to 2, 2 to 3, not into N, goes into Park, all is well. 

Uhm, until the horizontal rod to the bellcrank is attached.  Now the shifter will not go into Low. ^@%$%!@#% !!!
Inspection reveals interference at the bellcrank arm to bracket. 



Owner says "grind that part away" so after removing oh 1/4" of steel.... Shifter and bellcrank in the car now work right and mounted right. Well, sort of.... 

I am a little worried that the body guys left off part of the bellcrank support bracket or something. This bracket comes off the trans tunnel, then horizontal to hold the top end of the bellcrank, then starts down but just ends.  I feel it is too flimsy for a shifter function. Remember that I am not the Dodge expert, anything and everything might be wrong about this car.  Replaced with poorly fitting aftermarket, missing, off another car that came in the pkg, etc. 

I am considering adding a stiffener to the RH side of this bracket as seen here.  What say ye experts, is this bracket supposed to be so flimsy that light finger pressure bends it oh 1/8" or is a stiffener in order?

[Roctania]

Next up the HEATER HOSES
I think we are all set here now:



New Valve mounted to fender liner with proper bracket.  I assume the control cable from inside goes to that valve.

Valve to heater core are both 5/8".
Valve 1/2" goes to engine water pump housing, outboard hole of the rearmost two holes, where the nipple uses a 3/8 x 1/2 NPT bushing. 
Valve 5/8 hose runs to water pump housing, forward hole, lower, requiring no bushing in the 1/2" NPT hole. 
All hose clamps will be in place eventually, this is a mockup test fit. 

The inboard hole of the rear pair of coolant access holes was used with a reducer bushing to place the sensor for the electric fans. BTW, this hole is a total PITA to access with fancy bolts and March Belt system.  Wrench?  Fuhgeddaboutit.  Socket... will not go on with horizontal bolt nearby in the way.  Bolt won't come out because March bracket is in the way.  Have to slacken ALT belt, remove Alt upper bracket, then remove the horizontal bolt, then at long last you can have your way with the coolant fitting. 

Engine temp sensor for dash gage goes in the smallest 1/8" NPT hole over on the LH side of the water pump housing.



I am wondering what secures the heater core and hoses at the firewall- it seems like the heater core is loose and moving around while test fitting the hoses.  I see we have a clamp that goes from both tubes to something.  Is this clamp supposed to be soldered to the heater core nipples, or clamped to the hoses, or what?  [too late to solder it to the tubes]  Anyone got a close photo for details?

I have spring ring clamps galore, or if it is better, I can use Oetiker type crimp in place clamps- I have a proper tool for those, which was handy on the fuel lines. 

http://www.amazon.com/Oetiker-Style-Single-Clamps-13-3mm/dp/B004TO0WJW/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1411922082&sr=8-9&keywords=oetiker

[Roctania]

OK, to wrap up recent progress or struggles with the 1971 Challenger...

with fewer photos... 

It looks like PCV will come off the rear of the carb base, though the front nipple might be used.   Another Nipple at the carb rear can provide vacuum to the teensy hose that runs the underdash AC controls.  Why not the $30 factory 3-port intake nipple with correct 3/8 NPT threads? Because.... the hi rise intake hits the nipples and it cannot be screwed into place.  *sigh*

Vacuum port in intake behind carb can provide power to the brake booster- a non-original steel line and fitting from some other brand makes a good start to that project.  The vehicle is far from stock anyhow. 

The spring that goes from carb linkage peg to aft end of kickdown rod is readily found at restoration suppliers. 

Trans cooler lines went right in, more or less.  One poorly manufactured end had a shard of metal inside waiting to break off and cause havoc, and the line near the shifter rod interferes, but that might be due to incorrect shifter parts.  The proper 1/8 NPT to 5/16 flare fittings were found on Amazon for a good price. 

Carb cable and kickdown are now waiting on the Edelbrock adapter part.  Proper cable peg with extra long outboard peg for kickdown rod and spring has arrived. 

Throttle cable bracket and kickdown bellcrank I'm sure are aftermarket... because they didn't make the holes line up for the kickdown linkage adjustment process.  Bracket had to be removed again and a drill run thru the holes to remedy this.  Kickdown rod to carb had to have about a 1" Left/Right offset bent into it in order to match the alignment of the mating parts at both ends.

Speaking of the intake bolts- I assume they need sealant on the threads?  I probed one hole with a zip tie and it was evidently leading to the coolant passages. 

The pistol grip? slapstick shifter's plastic slider that is used to indicate the current gear seems to be a loose fit on the shifter stalk, leading to an indicator line being a little out of position.  We have a piece of heater hose? over the shifter stalk, but there is still a little gap at the front and rear of the slider's opening- maybe 1/4" total.  Are we missing a plastic part maybe that positions the slider correctly on the stalk?

I hear a drop base air cleaner has been ordered...

[A383Wing]

intake bolts do not go into coolant passages....it's the exhaust studs that go into coolant on a big block

[John_Kunkel]

Here's a diagram of the E-body Slapstick shifter.

[Roctania]

intake bolts do not go into coolant passages....it's the exhaust studs that go into coolant on a big block

Edelbrock AL heads, sorry, forgot to mention.
zip tie went in about 3-4" so that can't be a blind hole. Better to have sealer and not need it than vice versa.

As for the shifter linkage illustration- OK, that looks like what I have done. But it lacks detail.

Example: I cannot tell if that fwd bellcrank bracket is secured to the tunnel on its RH side or not.  Seems too flimsy to me.  Surely one of you experts knows if this bellcrank support is supposed to be sturdy or flimsy.

It looks like I have all the rods in the right way and oriented the right way.  I assume the no-go-into-low until bellcrank bracket is carved is due to the usual inept manufacturing and no quality control or test fitment by aftermarket vendors.  Or... maybe there are 4 different bellcranks and I have the wrong one in this car.  That's where I need specific help. 

I can't tell by the illustration if, say, the bellcrank arm lengths I have are proper or way off, causing the inability to get the adjuster rod right ne matter what trans selector arm is in place.

[John_Kunkel]

The sheet metal front bracket should be spot welded to the floor on both sides and shouldn't be flimsy.

Inability to get into low gear is often the result of an incorrect shift lever on the trans.

[Roctania]

The sheet metal front bracket should be spot welded to the floor on both sides and shouldn't be flimsy.

Inability to get into low gear is often the result of an incorrect shift lever on the trans.

Thanks so much.  I will sturdify the bracket as needed then.  Too late for welding, so it will have to be bolted in place. 

We have two of the three possible trans arms.  I will use the trans arm required to attain L and Park to both function, hopefully it's the offset one as shown in the illustration above.  Then I will bend the two trans arms [Kickdown and Gear Selector] apart as necessary until their rods' ends clear and do not interfere.

Thanks!

[Roctania]

OK, I cannot find the previous post by Roctania, so...

[here it is: http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,113412.0.html ]

Other-brand person helping assemble basket case well-modified 1971 Challenger. Formerly certified mechanic, degreed engineer [don't hold that against me], and technician with many years of experience.

More work today
Figured out the heater core to firewall solution, just a screw and washer.  That's tight and the hoses are on. There is no rubbery foam seal here? Really?

Also I noticed a huge firewall hole where the brake booster is.  Brake rod has like a 2-3" hole around it.  This cannot be right.  Help?

Bracket at front of console, that holds top end of vertical rod, is flexible.  Folks here say it should be connected to floor on RH side but it isn't.  So I will secure it better.

Shifter is nothing but trouble.  This car may or may not have its correct parts, and anything and everything might be wrong. After some fiddling last week (I had to grind a relief in the bracket that holds the top of that vertical shifter bellcrank rod, else the slapstick shifter would not go into Low), I got the shifter to behave as it should, from Low thru slapstick action, and using the release lever to go into and out of Park.  But, as soon as I tried to put the rod in place underside from bellcrank to trans, it was found that Park could not be engaged just right, and Low was hard to get to work also.  

Underside, we find that the linkage cannot be adjusted to attain both Park and Low.  WTH?  Tried different "904" offset arm on trans.  Not better.  Horizontal Rod under floor from vertical bellcrank to trans arm hits on ear sticking out of trans, hits on trans cooler line, and if you get anywhere near Low the adjuster screw wants to hit on the trans case/ pan.  Adjuster wants to be all the way at the front part of the slim section of the rod [can't be right] else trans arm will not go into Park when shifter is in Park....

Today I took a different approach.  Remembering that NOTHING is known-correct, not even the position of the shifter on the floorboard- car was a basket case and may have parts from any or all other cars instead of correct parts... body panels replaced... etc. Part of the floor was replaced for sure.  

Back to correct? "727" type 71 E-body straight shifter arm on trans selector. Rod connected the only way it fits- Spring retainer atop trans arm.  DISCONNECT CONSOLE AREA ROD FROM SHIFTER TO BELLCRANK. Free to move underside now.  Put horizontal underfloor trans shifter rod in about the middle of its adjustment.  Voila' now we can get Park [perfectly] to Low.  Trans, underfloor rod, and bellcrank are all 100% happy. Rod hits NOTHING, not even the ear on trans [welded on ear from previous race use??]... comes nowhere near the trans case/ pan in Low.  PERFECT.  

Let's go above the floor. Upstairs, the bellcrank now goes all the way to Low w/o requiring that cutaway that I did the other day.  I knew that had to be a sign of some other problem.  

AHA, we now see easily that the rod from shifter to bellcrank wants to be almost AN INCH LONGER.  Ideal center to center would be 16.25" or so.  We have maybe a 15.5" rod. 

Anyone got one for sale? Must be 16.2 to 16.3" or so center to center.  

So, now the solutions are evidently:

1) cut and weld the shifter to bellcrank rod longer to suit, or

2) remove the vertical bellcrank rod and twist it CW such that the top arm is about 1" further aft than it is now, so that it meets the existing 15.2" or so shifter rod properly when the bellcrank's bottom arm is well positioned at about the middle of its adjustment, and the Park to Low features all work between trans and bellcrank.  

The problem I have with solution #2 is that I like the way the shifter mech works right now- the spring at the bellcrank seems to be there to help keep the shifter [and thus the trans] in Drive.  At least, it does that now.  It's hard to believe that the bellcrank needs a twist to be correct.  Easier to believe that we have the wrong rod from shifter to bellcrank, or shifter is in wrong place on floorpan, making the correct rod now incorrect.  


In other news, the Edelbrock carb adapter arm was installed, seems OK.  Throttle cable attached pretty much in line, using the proper Mopar long stick for cable and kickdown mechanism.  Verified that gas pedal opens the carb all the way and allows it to close all the way, and a little more, for just in case.  I have kickdown adjustment procedure, so that should be easy after we get the shifter all squared away.  And the trans arms bent offset so that the trans selector arm and kickdown arm don't hit each other on the way past.  I do have to put a slight offset bend in the carb kickdown rod, because the Edelbrock carb evidently puts the forward end of the rod outboard a little more.  

Thanks for any input you can provide.
Sorry this was so long winded.  It's a tough puzzle to me.  

[Roctania]

Any input on why this vertical shifter rod is not retained properly at the bottom?

Bending the bracket with a hammer is the only solution?

[A383Wing]

wrong vertical rod or wrong bracket at the bottom

[Roctania]

Added an inch to the shifter to vertical bellcrank rod to get the trans selection to work right.

Brake lights on all the time, perhaps due to brake light switch adjustment.  Interestingly, this caused the front park lights to be on all the time.  One brighter than the other.

Front park lights not working.
RH brake lights on all the time, LH inner too, LH outer never on.

Go to look into this today.
Front side markers- one bulb was wrong type? Naturally dim, even when tested at the battery. Put brighter bulb in, issue solved.

Front park/turn signals- never got fully RESTORED.  No bulbs. Half-arsed install with wrong screws and top one missing. [71 Challenger RT] Got proper screws, cleaned sockets, getting 1157 bulbs for next visit.

rear side markers- has volts, lamp lights if you hold its socket to tail panel screw.
Reinstall bulb holder to marker- nothing.  Test light from tail panel screw [known good ground] to side marker housing burns both test light and side marker each at half voltage. AHA - side markers NOT GROUNDED.  Due to.... PAINT of course. Scraped paint away, tested OK, dismantled and re-assembled with silicone grease at contact points to ward off rust, PERFECT.

Now about that NW LH outer stop lamp. 
Socket loose in light housing, no ground contact. 
Bulb [Chinesium] has loose glass bulb- not tight to its bayonet base.
Some idiot forced a single contact 1156 into the socket.  1156 bulb was connecting brake to park/tail circuit thus the front side markers were on all the time because the brake lites were on all the time.  What kind of special worker forces in place a bulb that cannot fit due to the peg differences? Wow. 
Socket contact holder is not installed right, places contacts poorly.  Even proper 1157 will not work right.
Fix that later with real made in USA old as hell bulbs that fit and work right.

Peek at LH Reverse light
This should have the 1156 single contact.  It has a mangled 1157 dual contact, again forced into place by a previous worker.  *sigh*
Put an 1156 in there. Can't test it yet due to reverse light connector not fitting on trans switch connector properly.

LH inner stop/tail - Hey, a correct 1157 bulb! And properly oriented contacts!

RH Stop/Tail and Backup all appear to be OK

Just need that Dodge repair bulb holder, and some proper 1156 and 1157 Bulbs.

Say,

Does anyone know what sort of BOLT or SCREW fastens the top of the FRONT TURN SIGNALS to the metal?
We have nothing.
The light's hole is a little under 1/4" ID.
Maybe a #10 stainless screw and a flat washer and Nylock nut?

Thanks, Roctania
14320

[Charger-Bodie]

Nice project. I merged your two topics , to avoid mayhem and confusion.