Painless vs Ron Francis

[comet_666]

http://www.ronfrancis.com/prodinfo.asp?number=XP-68

or

http://www.painlessperformance.com/webcatalog/lv.php?sl=10127

If you have pro's con's on either I would love to hear it.

I am planning on mating this to this cluster

http://www.dakotadigital.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=939/category_id=679/mode=prod/prd939.htm

[TexasStroker]

I'm getting close to pulling the trigger on one myself.  I've been very impressed with Ron Francis' customer service, namely in that he personally answers the e-mails.  I am doing a lot of custom stuff to the Charger and he personally suggested the Express.  Painless is a great company as well.

The issue you, and anyone really, will have with aftermarket wiring harnesses is the lack of first hand feedback.  I'm not concerned with what a guy heard from his friend's uncle who knows a guy that used one of the kits.  First hand feedback is very hard to find and without it, you don't have much to base your choice on...Similarly, a lot of negative reviews may come from someone who has zero experience with wiring...Online everyone can seem an "expert" when in reality they are far from it and reflect their own inexperience into a review of the product itself.

Everyone loves M&H as it is plug-and-play.  However, that is not the best setup, imo, for some of the more modern and customized routes.  The best asset there is the factory color schemes.  There have been plenty to go that route who love the easy install, but I see just as much complaining about the long delivery times etc.  Those reviews have been first hand.  The overwhelming feedback I got just a few weeks ago from the board, was to go M&H and modify it.  Unless people with Painless or RFW kits come out of the woodwork, I imagine that is what you will see as well.  It is certainly possible to pickup the M&H and modify it, but will come down to how much you want to spend, rewire, and customize.

I may turn an order in as early as this week and will see how it goes...

If the gauges are all that you are doing different, you can pick up several reasonably priced "aftermarket gauge" harnesses...something to consider there...Keep the factory wiring, and then have it modified and easy to disconnect.

[comet_666]

In my case all the wiring as well as the cluster was shot so I thought I might as well go with a chassis wiring harness and the dakota cluster, will actually save me some $ in the long run. Also, I have a friend who does car wiring and he is going to do it all for me. I could do it myself but with something like that I may want to see a professional. Let me know what you do when you pull the trigger!

[TexasStroker]

Will keep you posted...

I honestly think short of going full on concourse resto, or perhaps just replacing a pirated portion of the harness, the aftermarket has better options.  I trust what others have said here about M&H and the ease of installation...It is also nice to have everything tie back to factory schematics, but if you are starting from scratch, going heavy with custom accessories, or simply have an in-tact harness showing its age, it makes sense to me to go aftermarket and take advantage of the technology.  Based on your gauge selection, it seems you err on that side too so I'd support the aftermarket option. 

The very limited first hand accounts with Painless and Ron Francis have been good.  The knocks with either seem to be the lack of connectors, or reusing the factory sockets and issues wiring in factory switches (ignition, headlight, wiper, etc).  Some view that as a downer, others like it.  I would personally prefer to have the connectors and terminate them myself, but I realize that would be hard for any company to spec out.  I'm trying to order in some connectors I know I will want and will then go for the harness...My personal selection right now is the Express from Ron Francis.  Seems more A-Body folks have posted up first hand accounts, so I have tried to collectively pool samples from A/B/E and compile the results.  Probably invested too much time doing that, but I like to know what to expect, and what to have on hand before making a purchase.

[John_Kunkel]

I dislike the Painless because the wires are pre-terminated at the fuse block, the Ron Francis gives you the option of stringing the wires toward the fuse block and terminating them with screws at the fuse block.

More crimping/screwing but the option is important to me.

[TexasStroker]

I dislike the Painless because the wires are pre-terminated at the fuse block, the Ron Francis gives you the option of stringing the wires toward the fuse block and terminating them with screws at the fuse block.

More crimping/screwing but the option is important to me.

Thanks for the insights.  I too prefer the "end user" freedom to determine where and how I route and terminate...It can make a big difference in the finished appearance.

[TexasStroker]

Something I have been curious about is how everyone is handling the headlight switch.  If this was my Duster I wouldn't have issues running the RF Synergy switch.  However, the Charger's rocker looks great AND it actuates the headlights doors...

Are y'all wiring to the factory switch, relocating the aftermarket switch and keeping the rocker for the headlight doors or what?

I'm also curious if there have been any issues wiring to the factory ignition switch.  I'll assume it is a non-issue since a new one isn't included, but I also don't know how/if the aftermarket is terminating the wires at that point.

Really need to run out to the shop and grab my wiring diagram to get a better feel for the changes/upgrades...I just keep messing with the dash and always forget.  I am currently pegging down some connectors I want on hand before turning in a final order.

Thanks in advance for any feedback.

[mopar73]

I just recently got done installing the painless 10127 kit on my 73. It was still the 14 circuit one. The kit was of good quality, but as mentioned before, none of the ends come with connectors so you have to use the originals and a service manual is almost a requirement to have.  You will still need to use some of your original wiring or make new, such as the power windows.  That being said, the customer support at painless was great and I never had to wait more than a couple minutes to talk to anyone.  The instructions are generic to cover all the model years so there is some interpolation involved.  Good kit
Btw my 40 year old harness was shot and I'm doing a restomod

[myk]

Something I have been curious about is how everyone is handling the headlight switch.  If this was my Duster I wouldn't have issues running the RF Synergy switch.  However, the Charger's rocker looks great AND it actuates the headlights doors...

Are y'all wiring to the factory switch, relocating the aftermarket switch and keeping the rocker for the headlight doors or what?

I'm also curious if there have been any issues wiring to the factory ignition switch.  I'll assume it is a non-issue since a new one isn't included, but I also don't know how/if the aftermarket is terminating the wires at that point.

Really need to run out to the shop and grab my wiring diagram to get a better feel for the changes/upgrades...I just keep messing with the dash and always forget.  I am currently pegging down some connectors I want on hand before turning in a final order.

Thanks in advance for any feedback.

In my car the Painless kit is modified to fit the Charger's original terminals.  I just reused the original pieces or replaced them as necessary.  My primary goals with the rewire was to install fresh wiring, and a modern blade-type fuse box....

[HPP]

Don't overlook American Auto Wire as a potential provider. I've had several people recommend them over Ron Francis, although both are probably at the tops of recommendations I've received.

I too plan on updating the system beyond stock capability with some additional circuits, removing the ammeter, relocating the battery, and I want extra length to re-route the wire in non-stock locations.

[TexasStroker]

Something I have been curious about is how everyone is handling the headlight switch.  If this was my Duster I wouldn't have issues running the RF Synergy switch.  However, the Charger's rocker looks great AND it actuates the headlights doors...

Are y'all wiring to the factory switch, relocating the aftermarket switch and keeping the rocker for the headlight doors or what?

I'm also curious if there have been any issues wiring to the factory ignition switch.  I'll assume it is a non-issue since a new one isn't included, but I also don't know how/if the aftermarket is terminating the wires at that point.

Really need to run out to the shop and grab my wiring diagram to get a better feel for the changes/upgrades...I just keep messing with the dash and always forget.  I am currently pegging down some connectors I want on hand before turning in a final order.

Thanks in advance for any feedback.

In my car the Painless kit is modified to fit the Charger's original terminals.  I just reused the original pieces or replaced them as necessary.  My primary goals with the rewire was to install fresh wiring, and a modern blade-type fuse box....

So you just adapted the wiring to the factory headlight/wiper/ignition switches?

That is what I am going for...new fuse box, fresh wires, and the ability to easily run more accessories with no issues.  I'm hoping to dive into things after the big show this weekend.  I'd really like new plugs/sockets when it doesn't require spending $$$ for something that is now obsolete.

I really liked the look of the Classic Update for the Cuda/Challenger that American Auto Wire offers...I hit them up a month or so ago to see if they planned anything for the 68-70 B-Body etc...Nothing was in the works, but I'm on the newsletter now.

This isn't really something I have to do, or that needs to be done, but I've got the gauge cluster out, most of the dash disassembled for some work and the new dash pad, and it is about the easiest it will ever be to justify the installation...Plus, it comes with peace of mind and I don't have to rework what other people have done since late 68.

[myk]

Yes, I forgot to mention that with the modern blade-type fuse box I have enough empty slots to add more electrical accessories than I could ever hope to have; power windows, stereo, whatever, and I don't have to make ugly splices into factory wiring or cobble up some messy power junction to run it all..

[TexasStroker]

Yes, I forgot to mention that with the modern blade-type fuse box I have enough empty slots to add more electrical accessories than I could ever hope to have; power windows, stereo, whatever, and I don't have to make ugly splices into factory wiring or cobble up some messy power junction to run it all..

That's where it is at for me...the glass fuses are a total pain.  I cleaned up so much broken glass in the dash frame cavity it was nuts.   I have gotten pretty good with them, but the blades are so easy to change/service.

[moparguy01]

I used ez Wiring for mine. About 1/3 the cost and looked like the painless kit. It is a universal kit but that is what I wanted for mine.

[six-tee-nine]

I have a painless kiton the shelf for my 69.

Lot of people jerk on them since they are not "correct" as they are GM based. colors dont match the factory colors. OK but I know my stuff when it comes to electrical systems. All I want is 100% new wiring. The painless kit is a base kit for ignition and lights.
I dont mind what colors the wires are and I like the fact that i can cut the wires and crimp the connectors of my choosing or the factory connectors where needed.
All the wiring that does'nt come with the kit I will fab myself. i just thought that completely fabbing a wire loom would take a little too long.

About the headlights : My headlight switch will only remain for a basic function. The switch will only operate relays for the lights and vacuum.
I wont run the vacuum lines all the way into the dash. I'm planning on using a solenoid operated valve for the headlight doors wich I will place somewhere behind the grill as close to the doors as possible to keep vacuum line length to a minimum.

[John_Kunkel]

I have a painless kiton the shelf for my 69.

Lot of people jerk on them since they are not "correct" as they are GM based.

You'll see the reason for their criticism when you go to connect the ignition switch.

[six-tee-nine]

Wiring diagrams and headache painkillers will be my friend......

I must admit That the painless kit was not on my personal shopping list, but i got it from a guy who owed me some cash and gave me the kit.
If I had to buy a kit myself i would go with the Ron Franacis kit myself because of the good comments all over the web. i have no expierience with any of them.

So john what will be the headache with the ign switch?

[John_Kunkel]

Mopar ignition switches have to circuits, IGN 1 and IGN 2, few aftermarket wiring kits take this into account.

[TexasStroker]

I've been really busy and my home PC has a virus on it...I've yet to order the wiring kit in, but still plan to...My current hold up is the dash, lol.

If it all comes together like I plan, it will be great.

[Evilcito]

Hi,

I bought and I'm installing Painless Kit, for my 68 charger. I now nothing about wiring before start, so was a big challenge. Right now I'm connecting the dash and tail section of the harness. I need to mention that I'm from Chile, at the end of the world. Painless team support has been great answearing all my newbie questions.

I'm not finished yet, but I think I'll be ok.

I recommend Painless.

Best regards.