BB blueprinting oil pump

[fy469rtse]

What's involved in blueprinting a bigblock oil pump
Brand new mellings , given the quality of parts now days, rather not take any chances on it being correct out of the box, 
Procedures to follow ?, clearances ? ,
Have admit done a few engines and payed attention to detail, but this is one of those parts I just assumed brand new would be correct,
I've heard challenger340 and Ron touch on this subject and want to know more , please, manners first
Bigblock stroker , solid roller, bronze gear wear, turned out the one mistake I have made is I used a HV , near bronze gear , and installing new stock pump, Blueprinted !

[Challenger340]

Rotor Clearance and Rotor Stack Height Dimension, followed by relief spring pressure(length).

Why was using an HV Pump a "mistake" ?
other than....
that you potentially may have "too little" bearing clearance present internal of the Engine, to then accept the extra Oil Flow that an HV Pump can produce... whereby the HV Pump is then constantly in "relief".. harder to then turn or "drive"..  whereby it was tearing up the Bronze Dizzy Gear ?

Is the above the problem you have experienced ?

Not trying to be difficult, but before we get into "Blueprinting" an Oil pump.... any Oil Pump.... you need to know that blueprinting an Oil Pump, is as much relative to the particular Engine as anything else ?

What Engine Oil temperatures were you experiencing when tearing up Bronze gears prior ?

The only way Engine Bearings cool... is by the free flow of lifeblood Oil both IN to lubricate... but more importantly...  OUT AGAIN... to allow new COOLER Oil in again to COOL the bearings.

If I may ask... if this is a street application ?  what "Solid Roller" Camshaft are you using that requires a "Bronze" Dizzy Gear ?

[fy469rtse]

Thanks for replying challenger340,
Street application ,
I just knew you or Ron would, billit roller, comps CRB3 XR274R-10
On my second gear, it's showing signs of wear, discussed this with Ron , he thought it might have been end play in the camshaft, checked that ,
Yes have told that the HV pump was not needed and would be excessive drag on gear,
Have bought standard mellings pump to install
Just been warned about quality of new pumps ,  want to checked clearances and learn ? How a oil pump is blue printed,
Didn't have a temp gauge on oil ? , engine itself was not running hot, oil pressure was at idle 900 rpm 48 psi on after market gauge and showing 40 on fac gauge ,
78psi at 2500 showing 60 on factory gauge , would the following add to the problem, milodon gear drive, so no oil slinger on snout of crank shaft ,
Where does this area get is main oil supply from ? ,

[BSB67]

http://stores.precisionoilpumps.com/

http://www.moparts.org/Tech/Archive/bb/51.html

For starters, just follow the path that the oil takes and open-up, clean-up, radius, enlarge, align and smoothly transition everything from the pick-up to the lifter galley.  Just using common sense you'll find a dozen things to improve without even touching the rotors.  Don't be surprised if the pump body to the pump cover are so misaligned that you need to enlarge the bolt holes to get it close.  When I get it close I use roll-pins to maintain the alignment.  Then you should re-drill and enlarge the passage as much as possible between them without  getting into the o-ring groove.

If the motor is in the car, there are key items that you probably can't or would not want to attempt.

[Challenger340]

Thanks for replying challenger340,
Street application ,
I just knew you or Ron would, billit roller, comps CRB3 XR274R-10
On my second gear, it's showing signs of wear, discussed this with Ron , he thought it might have been end play in the camshaft, checked that ,
Yes have told that the HV pump was not needed and would be excessive drag on gear,
Have bought standard mellings pump to install
Just been warned about quality of new pumps ,  want to checked clearances and learn ? How a oil pump is blue printed,
Didn't have a temp gauge on oil ? , engine itself was not running hot, oil pressure was at idle 900 rpm 48 psi on after market gauge and showing 40 on fac gauge ,
78psi at 2500 showing 60 on factory gauge , would the following add to the problem, milodon gear drive, so no oil slinger on snout of crank shaft ,
Where does this area get is main oil supply from ? ,

That would have been my first guess as well ? being the Cam end-play ?
If a 2nd bronze gear is now showing "excessive" wear prematurely... you may have a problem related to actual LOAD driving the Oil Pump ?
Be aware though.... Bronze gears do show wear right away as "normal" as soon as they are run-in ? just the nature of the beast. Sometimes looks BAD right away... but will run for quite awhile after that just fine ?
They also like some "Zinc" for run-in which acts as an EP Additive.

I like to see no more than .010" Rotor Clearance... but really here, they can be MUCH SLOPPIER and will pump just Fine !
The most important dimension for me is the Rotor "Stack Height".... or the clearance between the Rotors in the Body "up & Down", because that is where the Rotors lose the most pumping efficiency. Again... I like .008" to .010".... but I've seen others pump just fine at higher.

Really, BSB67 has probably the best advice about block gallery mis-alignments ? But alas... as mentioned not practical now on a running Engine to undertake.

Oil Slinger not present.... hundreds have forgotten it over the decades, seems to work anyways, if your front seal starts leaking... worry about it then.
Splash Oiling on gears from #1 Cam Bearing leakage, and # 1 Main Bearing leakage.
For gear drives many years ago we used to # drill the front Oil plug on the Lifter Gallery for some "squirt".... but lots run fine without it, so I think we were wasting our time being young and foolish ?

Good Luck with it... it should be just fine with the std pump.

[firefighter3931]

Something else to look at when contemplating excessive bronze gear wear.....the distributor 

If the dizzy shaft has vertical play the gear will ride up on the cam and cause weird wear patterns. If this is the case you can install a collar on the distributor shaft to keep it from rising up or replace the distributor altogether. If your timing mark is jumping around and not steady you most likely have vertical play in the distributor shaft.



Ron

[BSB67]

The most important dimension for me is the Rotor "Stack Height".... or the clearance between the Rotors in the Body "up & Down", because that is where the Rotors lose the most pumping efficiency. Again... I like .008" to .010".... but I've seen others pump just fine at higher.

The actual rotor clearance is important too (both rotor to rotor and outer rotor to pump body), but not much you can do about it, other than having them coated to tighten them up a bit.

I like 0.003" for the stack clearance and would machine the body if it is more than 0.005" if your serious about it.

[fy469rtse]

Thanks a heap guy's
Yeh Ron , I thought of that too , if shaft was jumping up, but timing not jumping around ,
Have had issues like that with the distributors before, but this was checked and rebuilt at mock up stage engine,
First thing I noticed was the casting slag to pump housing ? It's a mellings, you would expect a certain level of quality ?
Stack Clearance 0.007 thou
Rotor clearance 0.010
Thanks guys for the links good and info, going to get started on it ,
Have taken some photos of gear for reference and will put some hours on it soon , then recheck it and compare against photos , maybe I'm over reacting and this is normal,
Have got another spare milodon coming so will take comparison shots and post soon
It's only use so far has been run in, good zinc additive included, and four conservitive pulls on the dyno, mainly tuning
Learn something every time on here, never paid any attention to the pump, always assumed new so just bolt on and go

[fy469rtse]

Thanks for the links BSB67, paid $ 85 aust plus shipping for the stock mellings
Just ordered that blueprinted one from presision pumps , will clean up the one I have, and keep it for a stock engine they have addressed all the issues with pump, the one I have is a bit loose to rotors, and I liked how quickly they responded to my inquiry 

[BSB67]

Thanks for the links BSB67, paid $ 85 aust plus shipping for the stock mellings
Just ordered that blueprinted one from presision pumps , will clean up the one I have, and keep it for a stock engine they have addressed all the issues with pump, the one I have is a bit loose to rotors, and I liked how quickly they responded to my inquiry 

I've never spoken to those guys.  Pretty good?  Did you actually talk to them?  Curious as to what they like to see for clearances?

[fy469rtse]

No just emails 
But will checking it also , will post on actual clearances ,
The coating closes up tolerances