GYC in hot water over Rex's lime green 70 Charger.

[lukedukem]

So is the video current. By that I mean owner wise. I also don't Facebook. I'm confused about the timeline to all this, pics and video.

Luke

[r4daytona]

First I know most say I'm biased because Mark did my car, but I have to give my thoughts.  We all know Mark slipped on this one, even he admits it.  We all are saying that it shouldn't have left the shop like that and Mark agrees as well.  He, in my opinion, has gone above and beyond to right a wrong and Rex refused.  HE even paid for Rex to get the estimate and Rex didn't get a line item estimate. Would have any of the shop owners accepted that? And even though it wasn't itemized STILL agree to pay it? Rex refused again.

So here's my summary:  Mark agreed to do a "collision repair" not a restoration.  Upon getting into the car and seeing other problems arise communication was lost which shouldn't have happened.  We all agree the work wasn't the best.

Rex gets car back and is unhappy and contacts Mark.  He figures Mark is rich(which he is not) and tries to soak him for what he can.
Mark asks what the problems are and for an estimate and Rex refuses and just wants a big fat check.
Somewhere about this point Rex then asked for a job. Mark didn't answer so Rex then just wanted $35K (if I remember right - I might be off slightly)
Rex finally agrees to get an estimate since Mark said he'd pay for it and it didn't come out to what Rex was hoping for so Rex disagreed and added for mental anguish, etc.
Somewhere during this, Rex, in my opinion, tried Blackmailing Mark with "pay me what I want or I'll go public"    Would any of us tolerate that?
Rex doesn't get what he wants so he starts his FB page and like the Pied Piper has a bunch of mice following. 

                Sounds like Cyber-bullying/criminal harassment/defamation of character - (since Mark tried to remedy it in the first place)

I'm no attorney, but if I was Mark, I would counter sue the shit out of him for the extortion / blackmail he attempted and make sure the insurance knew of the insurance fraud.  Rex claims mental anguish.. what about Marks?  If like you guys have indicated Rex may now be liable for Marks attorney fees, if Mark won and Rex couldn't pay - I'd take his car!  Then restore it and fix it.  If it was me I would make it a show winner just out of spite! 

Here's the problem for Mark - I'm sure he wants this to end, but even if it turned out that Mark had to pay the 10K for repairs, it won't end. Even if Rex was told to delete the FB page, it won't end.  Someone, somewhere will just start a different FB page and still show pictures of Rex's car and talk about it in past tense.  Hell, it could even be Rex with a different name!  I'd sue the shit out of him if possible because this won't end due to social media.

[1974dodgecharger]

It will end and to be honest no one is gonna care for rex facebook page after awhile.  I dont think he even got a lawyer yet...he wants mark to just fork up to what he agreed upon....

[TUFCAT]

With respect to our leader Troy, I'm going to have to disagree with some of his statements.  I didn't want to, but with so many people forming opinions on this shit I think I should. I didn't open the door to the possibility of GYC intentionally doing things incorrect before getting approval. I followed the discussion and offered my "insurance approval scenario" in support how things normally happen (from my experience working for a body shop two summers while going to college)

Mark wants a detailed line item estimate of what has to be done to fix the car so he can see what all his shop is responsible for. He brings up all the things that they had to compromise on to keep from dealing with original problems. Was this list supplied to the owner?

That's a really good question...and the question still remains did GYC advise the owner or insurance company that more repairs were needed?  If they did, then a decision had to be made at some point as to who was coughing up the extra funds. I'm assuming it wasn't Rex, so that leaves either Mark, or Mercury American insurance.  I'm making the assumption that Mercury American Insurance capped the cost of this repair to $30K - since nobody ever mentioned it going beyond that.

It sounds pretty clear to me that Mercury American made an offer, cut a check, and basically washed their hands of this entire enchilada.  You'll notice Rex isn't saying anything bad about them on his Facebook page, even though it seems they still want nothing to do with Rex after writing that fat check to get him to go away.  I should add this is after Hagerty supposedly offered a $58K insurance settlement.... funny how that works.  

If the original floors had to be hammered and patched to keep from opening up a bigger issue was the owner told about this and given an explanation of why it was necessary? It goes both ways. If you're going to intentionally do something incorrectly it better have approval.

I responded whether or not (I thought) GYC eventually determined $30K wasn't going to be enough to repair this car - and advised Rex or the insurance company of the situation. In fairness I think they did but it went on deaf ears....I'm talking about finding evidence of a previous T-bone hack-job to the driver side b-pillar and floor.... (obvious thick bondo visible on damaged quarter panels not withstanding).

My insurance approval scenario actually made a lot of sense in this context. Once again, nobody stated if approvals for additionals were sought through the insurance carrier or Rex (at least not in this thread). My gut feeling is after Rex paid GYC $30K to repair the damage, he felt he'd be getting a complete restoration "while they were at it"

How many times have we seen on this site where a car gets wrecked, reveals crappy previous work, and people say "well, at least the old damage will get fixed while they are in there". If this were my car, that's what I'd be wishing for - to get it back even better than it was.

If a full restoration was expected, then the owner should have coughed up the extra money over and above the collision damage paid. I also realize this was a collision repair but nobody should have to accept such mediocre unsafe repairs and shoddy workmanship on a car!  I totally get that part.  However, many internet "armchair quarterbacks" still assume its the responsibility of Mark Worman to deliver a near perfect show car restoration.  Simply not true. Some insurance companies (not sure about this case) wouldn't have even paid to paint the fenders, doors, hood, or anything else that wasn't damaged in the wreck!

I also disagree with expectations that "previous damage should be fixed while they're in there."  Sure it would be nice, but after finding previously hidden/undetected eyesores not on the estimate who's supposed to pay for it?  In a perfect world it would be nice for the Insurance company to step up. What if they say no?  Is the owner expected to pay?  If the body shop decides to treat the owner like a charity case and do the work for free,  that's their business. (its totally unknown how this case went down).

This would be a simple decision it happened to me.  After exhausting all options with the insurance company and GYC... no matter what's found after things are opened up, everything gets fixed - period!  Even if it means opening up my checkbook. That's just my style. So yes, if I was Rex, I would have paid any extra money to get my car fixed correctly...only if the insurance, and body shop refused to pay. I certainly wouldn't be enthusiastically happy about it... but that's life.

I copied 2592 creston specifically because they are trying to make it sound like GYC is justified because the owner didn't find the crappy work and refusing the car and/or because the car was already a mess prior to the accident. Neither is valid and, frankly, quite ridiculous. I don't care what other scenario might possibly have happened in another reality. GYC has stated that the shoddy repairs weren't sanctioned (if you will) so that whole discrepancy with the insurance scenario is bogus.

The scenario with dealing with insurance companies is not bogus. Its normal operating procedure when body shops find additional work needed (or missed) on insurance estimate.  In this case, I mentioned it was different in the respect that I didn't think Mercury American or Rex would be willing to pay anything more.  If Mercury American didn't budge from their price cap of 30K, and  Rex didn't pay anything,  who's left to cover the extra costs?

These cars are dreams for most owners. You can treat my beat up old truck like "transportation" but not one of my babies! People aren't expected to be rational when it comes to these cars.

That statement 100% true in my opinion !  Rex was wronged by GYC, and now GYC is being wrong by Rex's internet campaign and Facebook page. The interesting question is who's been more damaged?  Rex or Mark Worman?  I predict GYC will win their suit for defamation.

I agree with Troy that people aren't expected to be "rational" about their dream cars... but a jury is expected to be.  Rationality will be applied to determine if Mark Worman was wronged in a defamation case....much more so that any rationality of whether Rex needed to drag his name through the mud, or whether $10K was enough money to correct shoddy workmanship on his 1970 Charger.  

[Bandit72]

 

This seems to be one of them metaphorical "snowballs headed for hell"

[TUFCAT]

Maybe you're right....until we get more information we're just stuck throwin' snowballs.

[1974dodgecharger]

Alot people5o0le will agree with troy because right under his name saids superman admin....no one wants to be the bad guy......

[rt green]

i can't take this anymore. i'm done with this.

[1974dodgecharger]

TUFCAT why do u hate grumpy cat?

[TUFCAT]

Never hate!  Just opinions.  Here's some hugs...  

[tan top]

So is the video current. By that I mean owner wise. I also don't Facebook. I'm confused about the timeline to all this, pics and video.

Luke

well it said video was posted , august 15th  2014 !     be interesting to see the whole car , is it  a real R/T SE ?  

[6spd68]

I wonder what this thread would be like if rex was a member here?   

[familymopar]

I wonder what this thread would be like if rex was a member here?   

I'm surprised he isn't.  This thread has been posted to the DTYMTTG page.  It seems to have then be deleted, but it was there.

[1974dodgecharger]

Always 2 sides to the story....I dont believe both of em, but I do believe both at the same time.

[Charger-Bodie]

I wonder what this thread would be like if rex was a member here?   

I'm surprised he isn't.  This thread has been posted to the DTYMTTG page.  It seems to have then be deleted, but it was there.

and what do these letters abbreviate?

[HANDM]

I wonder what this thread would be like if rex was a member here?   

I'm surprised he isn't.  This thread has been posted to the DTYMTTG page.  It seems to have then be deleted, but it was there.

and what do these letters abbreviate?

D ont
T rust
Y our
M opar
T o
T he
G raveyard

[Chargen69]

i can't take this anymore. i'm done with this.

[fy469rtse]

  ,lesson ,
dont trust you car with anyone paid to do any work on it at all period, dont let your car out of your sight, if you do dont complain when some thing happens to it 

[moparnation74]

,lesson ,
dont trust you car with anyone paid to do any work on it at all period, dont let your car out of your sight, if you do dont complain when some thing happens to it 

Very true statement in today's world.

[familymopar]

I'm no attorney, but if I was Mark, I would counter sue the shit out of him for the extortion / blackmail he attempted and make sure the insurance knew of the insurance fraud.  Rex claims mental anguish.. what about Marks?  If like you guys have indicated Rex may now be liable for Marks attorney fees, if Mark won and Rex couldn't pay - I'd take his car!  Then restore it and fix it.  If it was me I would make it a show winner just out of spite! 

It was I who made that statement concerning Rex paying Marks attorney.  And I want to clarify.  Rex is not "now" liable for Mark's attorney fees.  If Mark keeps doing what he is doing, Rex may very well be liable for those fees.

Once Rex files suit, if then Marks makes an official post-filing offer of settlement (under the appropriate rule) and then the judge/jury finds in Rex's favor for the same, less, or some slight percentage over the settlement amount, Rex will be liable for Mark's attorney fees incurred after the settlement offer.  This is to encourage people to accept reasonable settlements and not clog the courts.

This is a very likely scenario.  First, Rex will have to have an itemized estimate by that time.  His attorney will tell him this.  Otherwise the case won't go far.  Second, with that estimate in hand, Mark is likely to stand up and offer to fix it.  In the event that Rex will not take it and insists on things he is not entitled to, i.e. lost wages and pain and suffering, then Rex will at best get what Mark already offered.  If that happens, Rex will likely be liable for Mark's attorney's fees.

All of this is very unlikely though.  Rex will get an attorney (or already has one) and file suit.  Rex's attorney will tell him that not only will he never get pain and suffering, but it will make him look bad to the court.  Rex's attorney will also tell him that what he stands to win is the cost to put the car back in pre-accident condition (what Mark already offered) and that a suit is a waste of time and money.  Or Rex's attorney will file suit as Rex wishes, and Mark's attorney will file an answer reminding the court that Rex does not have a right to ask for these additional costs.  And that part of the case will be dismissed.  Then Rex would be suing Mark for what Mark has already offered.

If Mark is willing to pay to have the car repaired after an itemized estimate, Rex can't win in my opinion.

All this assumes that whatever state Rex is in follows the new general rule of an unreasonable litigant refusing a reasonable offer pays opponent's attorney.  Or that it gets removed to federal court which definitely has the rule.  When two people from different states sue each other the case can be removed to federal court at the whim of the defendant, which is what Mark would do because this is a "small fish in a big pond" in federal court.  As a caveat, I am not positive that Mark could remove the suit to federal court if Rex files in Mark's home state of Oregon.  But who cares, Oregon has the rule.

So Rex has 3 choices:

1) file in Rex's home state.  i do not know if that state has the rule.  But if he does file there, Mark can remove, at his sole discretion, to Federal court which has the rule (68);

2) File in Federal court.  The feds have the rule (68);

3) File in Mark's home state of Oregon.  This may preclude Mark from removing to federal court, but mark won't care because Oregon has the rule (Oregon Rules of Civil Procedure Rule 54(E)(3).

So no matter where Rex files, he is subject to the rule that may make him liable for Mark's attorney's fees by refusing an offer of full repair compensation. Some states and some courts are undoubtedly crazy, unorthodox, whatever, but I can not fathom a court, anywhere, that would even entertain the notion of pain and suffering, lost wages, and all that.  That is a non-starter.

Speaking of non-starters, Mark should file a counter-suit for defamation.  Mainly just to bring those facts to the court's attention.  But it too is a non-starter.  To win a defamation suit one must show that a) the statements were not true and b) there were actual (financial) damages.  Telling the whole world that someone did a crappy job, when they did do a crappy job, is not defamation.  Truth is an absolute defense to defamation.  Additionally, proving actual financial damages is tough.  Mark would have to bring people in to court who stated (believably) that they were definitely going to send their work to Mark and now they are not because of Rex's untruth.  This scenario is never going to happen for Mark, but it can be filed in good faith I think and put a bargaining chip on Mark's side.  If Mark won the defamation suit (extremely unlikely) it appears that Rex may be somewhat judgment proof anyway (can't pay damages).  Mark could send the sheriff over to Rex's house to collect non-exempt items to sell to pay Mark for the damages, but your only car is always exempt.  So, 1) Mark would have a monumentally tough time winning, 2) if Mark won he would not be able to "take" the car, and 3) Mark should file it anyway as I think it could be done in good faith.

If Mark is still willing to make good on his offer to Rex, Rex will not do better.

EDIT: spelling and grammar

[Cooter]

So.......after all 7 page read, I'm still of the opinion that if one cannot do his her own body work, one should expect while the money paid is perfection, the work is still gonna lack.
The other aspect reminds me of a Duster I tubbed one time for a kid and "pops" paid for.
Tubbed it, took kid AND "pops" for test drive. Beat the piss outta that 340 4spd. To prove the point that my work wasn't going anywhere. Gotta call from pops about two months later stating that my work almost killed his son. "really???"
I ask what happened. "Something broke and caused loss of control"
I ask to see the car. I follow them to where it was and inspected what I could as it had a huge imprint of tree/phone pole in right rear quarter.
I state I'll make it right (wondering where the hell I'm gonna find a Duster body).
Fast fwd. Three months. At a cruise night asking everybody and their brother about a Duster body and up walks this kid who renewed my faith in people a little.
He states he don't wanna get involved, but it "ain't right".
??

He tells me about tge kid and a certain race with another kid and his Fox body Mustang. Something bout no traction and third gear.

I call pops and make sure the kid is there as well. I ask if the kid knows so and so with a Mustang?
kid finally came clean and pops apologized.

Bottom line? People are asses that have unreal expectations when it comes to their "baby"....ESPECIALLY, if they have to pay more than a dollar for work performed. It will be a sad day when NO BODY SHOPS WILL EVER TOUCH a classic again because the owners are asses. Only time I don't see complaining is with MAACO paint. Only because every now and then they do screw up and make one look awesome.

[1974dodgecharger]

Well good if all body shops,close down like u said cooter then we force ourselves to learn it and if u cant then crush the car.

[resq302]

I gotta say looking at the pics, I wouldn't want to take my car back there again either if I were the owner.  After seeing all of the loose hardware, would you feel safe having your life inside of a car like that?  What would have happened if that bolt came out that held the leaf spring to the hanger?  Its obvious the body work was shoddy at best.  Having the primer show through is evident of no quality control or care about your work.  The whole brake shoe retainers are a joke too.  Was the person who did the work the first day at working on car?

Granted, there could have been crappy repair work done before but the work that came out of GYC is just atrocious .  Was it me or were those new AMD quarter panel marker lights not even straight? 

[FJ5WING]

The second I saw GYC sticking 67 GTX tip hangers on a Superbird I realized Id never be surprised by ANYTHING I saw them do. I cant get that out of my head! How does a Mopar specific restorer do that?
On the same restoration I also question the wing bolt breaking. was it ever replaced or even removed.

Im so happy theyre on the other side of the country and I'll never be tempted to visit them or have any work performed.

[Troy]

Alot people5o0le will agree with troy because right under his name saids superman admin....no one wants to be the bad guy......

The whole point of having a "discussion forum" is to share. It would suck if everyone agreed on everything. I don't care if people disagree with me and I don't expect them to. I'd never kick someone off the site just because they said I was wrong. Now, that doesn't mean I'll let it slide if you say something dumb. I'll just point it out publicly. Sort of like this...

Troy