GYC in hot water over Rex's lime green 70 Charger.

[TUFCAT]

Troy makes a good point.... but I wouldn't be surprised if Mark already documented his findings to cover his bases.  Remember he's got quick access to video equipment in his shop, so making a high quality video wouldn't be any problem.  

[moparnation74]

  We are all big boys..don't take it home if its not right,then cry about it later!!  Got what he paid for!!!!POS to start with!
[/quote]

As I stated earlier, "He should have inspected it before taking it home." However, that was a novice error on Rex and in reality most of us have done the same mistake.

However, just because Rex took it home without doing that DOES NOT mean Mark can wash his hands clean of the car and the shotty work.(Understand this is in reference to this Quote only)(Mark did try to resolve this after the fact)

What is this "Got what he paid for!!!POS to start with!"  That is a very ignorant statement.  

[2592 creston]

  We are all big boys..don't take it home if its not right,then cry about it later!!  Got what he paid for!!!!POS to start with!

As I stated earlier, "He should have inspected it before taking it home." However, that was a novice error on Rex and in reality most of us have done the same mistake.

However, just because Rex took it home without doing that DOES NOT mean Mark can wash his hands clean of the car and the shotty work.(Understand this is in reference to this Quote only)(Mark did try to resolve this after the fact)

What is this "Got what he paid for!!!POS to start with!"  That is a very ignorant statement.  
[/quote]

  Mark was willing to make it right.not wash his hands of it..If Rex wasn't scamming the insurance company he could have stopped the payment!

[Troy]

Mud puppy.

Which brings up something else I forgot to mention...

Mark wants a detailed line item estimate of what has to be done to fix the car so he can see what all his shop is responsible for. He brings up all the things that they had to compromise on to keep from dealing with original problems. Was this list supplied to the owner? If the original floors had to be hammered and patched to keep from opening up a bigger issue was the owner told about this and given an explanation of why it was necessary? It goes both ways. If you're going to intentionally do something incorrectly it better have approval. In my business everything gets approval or I don't touch it. Lesson learned there. In my opinion, if his shop touched it and didn't fix the underlying issue then he's still responsible for the full cost of repair since his shop dropped the ball in the first place. Everything on the back half of that car was mangled.

Troy

  We are all big boys..don't take it home if its not right,then cry about it later!!  Got what he paid for!!!!POS to start with!

Once again, what he had to start with doesn't make a damn bit of difference. If everyone on the planet was a restoration expert there wouldn't be a need for restoration shops would there? He paid (or insurance paid) GYC to repair the car and they did a crap job. Mark has admitted to it. It's not like a computer program (garbage-in-garbage-out)! Money was paid to fix the car - correctly I assume. I don't know that I've ever asked someone to take my money and screw up the car! If it was unrepairable then it should have been scrapped or refused by GYC. The shop isn't cleared of all responsibility just because the car left the shop. Many times issues are found after that point (like, say, puking coolant while sitting in line at Carlisle waiting to get a trophy).

Your argument would be valid *prior to the crash* I suppose. The car certainly had issues then as well and was, apparently, bought at a hefty price. A thorough inspection then may have avoided all this mess. Has nothing to do with GYC at all though. Had the car been an original paint survivor prior to the crash would you let GYC slide? Doubtful.

Troy

[72Charger-SE]

Right is right and wrong is wrong. Period.

Well put Brian!

I agree 100%...

[TUFCAT]

Had the car been an original paint survivor prior to the crash would you let GYC slide? Doubtful.

Troy

No Troy, it can't be considered the same as an original paint survivor car.....those cars don't come into body shops with previous collision/rust repairs

Here's a scenario that could happen in real life:

During a collision repair, ABC Body Shop finds hideous amounts of bondo covering up unibody problems and rust from a bad collision repair.   Keep in mind these issues were previously undetected by the insurance estimate and the owner....and its not a "restoration", its a collision repair on a 2001 Ram.

Let's assume this decision requires ABC to call the insurance company to get a new estimate.  After ABC explains their findings, the insurance company tells ABC they're not getting any more money than the original estimate.   I suppose ABC could then ask the owner for the extra money. If he says no, then what?  Is it the responsibility of ABC to suck it up and do these extra repairs without being paid?

This is just a "what if" scenario.  I'm not saying this is what happened with Mark, Rex, or the insurance company....only those people have the answers.  By the way, I still expect ABC to return customers vehicle without noticeable defects like loose bolts, runs in paint, parts installed wrong, etc.  

[familymopar]

I think most of us are in general agreement.  It doesn't matter if it was a daily driver, if there was a loan, what we would have done in Rex's position. What matters is what happened once the car got to the shop, Mark said he could fix it for X amount, and after.  The work is terrible, we all agree.  It says something about quality control (at a minimum) at GYC.  The result says a lot about all this.

But now Rex is here, so what does he do?  I am working on the assumption that Rex is not a time traveler.  So here he is with his 70, returned after paying a lot in repairs, and the work is shockingly bad.  What next?  That is what I am not understanding wit this thread.  What do you think Rex should do? What should Rex receive as compensation?

As I said before, I think what Rex could get from legal proceedings is to have GYC pay to have their bad work repaired correctly.  But that is what Mark has offered.  Should Rex be in the position of needing to do that?  No.  But he is.  And reasonable repairs is what he would stand to gain after pursuing it.

Rex was wronged.  Mark is trying to right the wrong.  Sure, Mark should not have done the wrong to begin with, but that is where they are.

Rex pursuing this legally is silly at this point.  If he wants to just make a point and put GYC through the ringer, fine.  But I think it will cost him.

As to the post while I was typing my post: how do you figure Rex is going to lose? His lawyers will be paid by Mark's insurance also, more than likely. If it drags out then Rex might have to find a way to, financially, get by until it is settled but my money would be on Rex and ALL the lawyers (both sides) coming out ahead in this one.

This is simply wrong.  As stated in an earlier post, when a defendant makes an offer of settlement and the plaintiff rejects that offer of settlement, the plaintiff (Rex) is responsible for the attorneys fees incurred after the offer was made.  So, even if Rex wins in court, he will be responsible for Mark's attorney fees unless the court finds for Rex in an amount dramatically larger than the offer.  Since the offer is "I will pay whatever it costs to fix our terrible work" that won't happen.  Mark wanting an itemized estimate is more than fair.  He may be in the wrong but he doesn't need to pay $30 for $10k in repairs, which could very well happen if he just writes a blank check.  Of course he needs an itemized estimate.

I do not know what state Rex is in but most states have this plaintiff-who-rejects-a-reasonable-settlemet-will-pay-defendants-attorney rule.  And even if they are not in one of those majority of states, the feds have the same rule.  And unless Mark and Rex live in the same state, the first thing Mark's attorney will do is remove the case from State court to federal court, which would be his unilateral right. 

For reference, the federal statute that I am talking about is rule of civil procedure 68, the Texas rule is 167.  I believe that most all jurisdictions have these rules by now.

So it is not that I am siding with Mark, I am appalled with the work.  I just think Rex should be taking Marks repair offer.

Scenario:  Rex files suit against Mark.  Mark makes an offer of settlement for the actual amount of repairs, let's say $10k.  Rex rejects the offer.  Case goes forward and sometime in the future Rex is awarded $10k for repairs.  Because of the settlement rule, Rex is now responsible for all of Mark's attorney's fees incurred after the settlement offer (this is a settlement offer after filing suit, so Mark's offer so far doesn't count).  This is very, very important for Rex, because as much as he, or we, may think other damages are in order, Rex is not entitled to them.  Rex will not be seeing any pain and suffering.  In this instance he is entitled to be made whole, and that is it.  So yes, Rex could easily lose in this scenario.  Mark's attorney fees are very likely to exceed the amount of repairs, by far.  Further, Rex has a responsibility to mitigate his damages.  If Rex is refusing to do anything, including remove the battery leaking acid all over his car (as he stated on the facebook page) then he, and he alone, is responsible for additional damage to the car.

It might not seem fair (although I think it does), but that is how the blood sucking cretins work.

[TUFCAT]

Very well stated!  I'm going to give you an A+ 

[Troy]

Had the car been an original paint survivor prior to the crash would you let GYC slide? Doubtful.

Troy

No Troy, it can't be considered the same as an original paint survivor car.....those cars don't come into body shops with previous collision/rust repairs

Here's a scenario that could happen in real life:

During a collision repair, ABC Body Shop finds hideous amounts of bondo covering up unibody problems and rust from a bad collision repair.   Keep in mind these issues were previously undetected by the insurance estimate and the owner....and its not a "restoration", its a collision repair on a 2001 Ram.

Let's assume this decision requires ABC to call the insurance company to get a new estimate.  After ABC explains their findings, the insurance company tells ABC they're not getting any more money than the original estimate.   I suppose ABC could then ask the owner for the extra money. If he says no, then what?  Is it the responsibility of ABC to suck it up and do these extra repairs without being paid?

This is just a "what if" scenario.  I'm not saying this is what happened with Mark, Rex, or the insurance company....only those people have the answers.  By the way, I still expect ABC to return customers vehicle without noticeable defects like loose bolts, runs in paint, parts installed wrong, etc. 

I copied 2592 creston specifically because they are trying to make it sound like GYC is justified because the owner didn't find the crappy work and refusing the car and/or because the car was already a mess prior to the accident. Neither is valid and, frankly, quite ridiculous. I don't care what other scenario might possibly have happened in another reality. GYC has stated that the shoddy repairs weren't sanctioned (if you will) so that whole discrepancy with the insurance scenario is bogus.

Troy

[TUFCAT]

Had the car been an original paint survivor prior to the crash would you let GYC slide? Doubtful.

Troy

No Troy, it can't be considered the same as an original paint survivor car.....those cars don't come into body shops with previous collision/rust repairs

Here's a scenario that could happen in real life:

During a collision repair, ABC Body Shop finds hideous amounts of bondo covering up unibody problems and rust from a bad collision repair.   Keep in mind these issues were previously undetected by the insurance estimate and the owner....and its not a "restoration", its a collision repair on a 2001 Ram.

Let's assume this decision requires ABC to call the insurance company to get a new estimate.  After ABC explains their findings, the insurance company tells ABC they're not getting any more money than the original estimate.   I suppose ABC could then ask the owner for the extra money. If he says no, then what?  Is it the responsibility of ABC to suck it up and do these extra repairs without being paid?

This is just a "what if" scenario.  I'm not saying this is what happened with Mark, Rex, or the insurance company....only those people have the answers.  By the way, I still expect ABC to return customers vehicle without noticeable defects like loose bolts, runs in paint, parts installed wrong, etc.  

I copied 2592 creston specifically because they are trying to make it sound like GYC is justified because the owner didn't find the crappy work and refusing the car and/or because the car was already a mess prior to the accident. Neither is valid and, frankly, quite ridiculous. I don't care what other scenario might possibly have happened in another reality. GYC has stated that the shoddy repairs weren't sanctioned (if you will) so that whole discrepancy with the insurance scenario is bogus.

Troy

I disagree. It's not a bogus scenario. Unearthing previous body repair wrong doings or hidden damage usually triggers a new estimate.  At that point someone needs to make a call.  If it can't be done under the initial estimate, a typical shop might stop working on it until someone (usually the insurance company) figures out how they'll be compensated for hidden damage.

In this case specifically, it sounds different. The insurance company put $30K cap on a car needing $45K worth of work - according to the Hagerty estimate. Unfortunately GYC made the first mistake of taking this car sight unseen.  Finding that previous hack-job under the skin.... further screwed the deal.  

[Aero426]

I am glad it is not my car.  Before or after.

[TUFCAT]

I am glad it is not my car.  Before or after.

Word!

[charger Downunder]

So this never happens again Mark need an action plan, policy procedure manual which would include a good set of procedures in place while restoring a customers car. Including quality control checks as the car is being restored at numerous stages. His shop needs some factory manuals or parts books to see how things go back together. Videos / pictures of factory correct cars and parts to see the details in Assembly of items.
Good to see he offered a solution, no matter how good you are at your job, in the end you need to get back to basics.

[RJS]

Is there a post/posts of when this POS was purchased with the details?
What was paid for this car?
Where was it bought from etc...?
Ron

[tucknroll]

i think we are all missing the point. the collision shop isn't graveyard carz. i think the collision shop was supposed to fix damage from the wreck, not restore the car. rex sounds like a bloodsucker.

[hemi-hampton]

I've been in this exact situation before. What happened with me is Haggerty offered a Estimate Price. Ends up the car was a Perfumed Pig just like this one but owner had no clue & thought he had a nice car hidden under that shiny paint when in reality it was a POS. As I proceed to fix I see whoever restored it before me did very bad poor quality ameture work. The insurance companies only want to pay for present accident damage, not prevoius accident or shoddy previous work. To make a long story short, I fix all this shoddy Earl Scheibed previous work, for free out of my pocket & don't get paid for it, Front half of car is mint showcar now thanks to my excellent work & owner is pissed off & not happy because he is wanting, expecting the insurance company to pay to have his whole car restored concourse correct 100 point Mopar Nats show car quality. Owners figure Cool, now that my car got screwed up I'll get the insurance company to mint my car out for me. I'll try to get them to fix all the screwed up stuff I never liked about my car, Why not, they got the money. Owners want to take advantage of Insurance company & shop owners & get something for free. Most owners expect more then what they pay for. BUT, I'll have to admit That Charger would of never left like that if I did it, But I also would of never agreed to $30k & 3 months. First big mistake. What I'd really like to know is how much Time & Money Mark from GYC had into repairing this job, Thats whats most important to me. This part always gets left out. LEON.

P.S. The shop I worked at Doubled/Chargered Haggerty twice as much as there estimate & never told me & never compensated me that extra money they scammed me out of.

[TUFCAT]

Leon is correct. Most people still think $30K is plenty of money to restore a car....when the reality is your "bang for the buck" for shelling out $30K of hard earned cash is getting pretty small nowadays....  

Many people like myself still view $30K as a lot of money to get a car restored.  For top shelf show cars (like the ones typically found at MCACN for example) the cost will easily exceed twice that amount... and that's just the body shop bill, without major collision repair.  

My point is that some people think Rex's car should have been perfect for the $30K spent, but like Leon's example it can sometimes take a whole lot more dough...(and I'm not talking about filler).  

[stripedelete]

Hagerty would have kept him whole. Rex got greedy.

Greed kills......

[hemi-hampton]

The biggest problem is it is impossible to accurately estimate a big job. To the exact penyy & time. In my opinion no one can do it, it's all a Guestimate. If you figure & charge for 100 hours or 1,000 hours you can make the job get done in that amount of hours but as a result quality may suffer. Or you go over that time & either charge customer more & if you can't you got 2 choices, Go over time anyways & keep doing quality & don't get paid or start taking short cuts to get it done quick because your now losing money. This is reality & the way it works in the body shops (from what I've seen) unless you charge Time & Material a.k.a hourly like I like to do. Hourly nobody loses. Was $30k to much or not enough? Only way I could answer that was after I was done doing the job the right way. Maybe, maybe not. My  , I'm sure others opinions will vary LEON.

[myk]

The biggest problem is it is impossible to accurately estimate a big job. To the exact penyy & time. In my opinion no one can do it, it's all a Guestimate. If you figure & charge for 100 hours or 1,000 hours you can make the job get done in that amount of hours but as a result quality may suffer. Or you go over that time & either charge customer more & if you can't you got 2 choices, Go over time anyways & keep doing quality & don't get paid or start taking short cuts to get it done quick because your now losing money. This is reality & the way it works in the body shops (from what I've seen) unless you charge Time & Material a.k.a hourly like I like to do. Hourly nobody loses. Was $30k to much or not enough? Only way I could answer that was after I was done doing the job the right way. Maybe, maybe not. My  , I'm sure others opinions will vary LEON.

This is a crucial point.  Body work isn't like changing out a fuel pump where there's a set rate for the job for the most part.  There's no telling how much time or money will be needed once the digging begins...

[1974dodgecharger]

Backyard hillbilly restoration and stilk better than Mark Worman can do...

[Troy]

Had the car been an original paint survivor prior to the crash would you let GYC slide? Doubtful.

Troy

No Troy, it can't be considered the same as an original paint survivor car.....those cars don't come into body shops with previous collision/rust repairs

Here's a scenario that could happen in real life:

During a collision repair, ABC Body Shop finds hideous amounts of bondo covering up unibody problems and rust from a bad collision repair.   Keep in mind these issues were previously undetected by the insurance estimate and the owner....and its not a "restoration", its a collision repair on a 2001 Ram.

Let's assume this decision requires ABC to call the insurance company to get a new estimate.  After ABC explains their findings, the insurance company tells ABC they're not getting any more money than the original estimate.   I suppose ABC could then ask the owner for the extra money. If he says no, then what?  Is it the responsibility of ABC to suck it up and do these extra repairs without being paid?

This is just a "what if" scenario.  I'm not saying this is what happened with Mark, Rex, or the insurance company....only those people have the answers.  By the way, I still expect ABC to return customers vehicle without noticeable defects like loose bolts, runs in paint, parts installed wrong, etc. 

I copied 2592 creston specifically because they are trying to make it sound like GYC is justified because the owner didn't find the crappy work and refusing the car and/or because the car was already a mess prior to the accident. Neither is valid and, frankly, quite ridiculous. I don't care what other scenario might possibly have happened in another reality. GYC has stated that the shoddy repairs weren't sanctioned (if you will) so that whole discrepancy with the insurance scenario is bogus.

Troy

I disagree. It's not a bogus scenario. Unearthing previous body repair wrong doings or hidden damage usually triggers a new estimate.  At that point someone needs to make a call.  If it can't be done under the initial estimate, a typical shop might stop working on it until someone (usually the insurance company) figures out how they'll be compensated for hidden damage.

In this case specifically, it sounds different. The insurance company put $30K cap on a car needing $45K worth of work - according to the Hagerty estimate. Unfortunately GYC made the first mistake of taking this car sight unseen.  Finding that previous hack-job under the skin.... further screwed the deal. 

Right, so why bring it in to this discussion? It's fascinating - but irrelevant since neither side is claiming this is the case.

Troy

[Charger-Bodie]

On a 40 year old car you can hope its never been cobbled up before, but you'd be a fool to bank on it. And as far as not knowing what it will take ie "guesstimate" I agree with this for the most part, but you have to keep in mind these guys are supposed to be specialists in Mopar musclecars. Should have a pretty good idea of what they were up against from the get go for the most part. You could see there was a bunch of filler in the car from the moment it rolled off the truck. Probably before that in pics. Not to mention. It was agreed upon to do the repairs............

[moparnation74]

On a 40 year old car you can hope st never been cobbled up before, but you'd be a fool to bank on it. And as far as not knowing what it will take ie "guesstimate" I agree with this for the most part, but you have to keep in mind these guys are supposed to be specialists in Mopar musclecars. Should have a pretty good idea of what they were up against from the get go for the most part. You could see there was a bunch of filler in the car from the moment it rolled off the truck. Probably before that in pics. Not to mention. It was agreed upon to do the repairs............

Completely
Overall, Mark did step up and admitted to the subpar work and is still willing to correct those mistakes.  Whether it is his shop or another shop.  On that note, what more can anyone ask of him

Should it have left a shop presented as a "High Quality, Mopar Restoration Shop" in that condition, of course not!  Especially, what he stated in the episode earlier this year about that restoration.  But it did and here we are.  Will Goldberg's Road Runner or the guy who chimed in earlier with the 6pack challenger(who previously owned 75 cars BTW ) receive the same end product issues? Absolutely, will not!

[tan top]

  just found this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IE_S3kk_YNc

how did you find that....

luke

    hey Luke  ,     been searching the net trying to find  pictures of this charger  , as it  seems to all going down on facebook, & i'm  into all that FB stuff . so ! out of curiosity was trying  to get some idea what it was like before the wreck ,   in the youtube clip I posted , the car seems to ring a bell with those exhaust tips & that type of rallye wheel  seem to think it was on ebay forsale  or one like it  sometime ago !