Can't install torsion bar ('74)

[Chargerguy74]

I just can't get the LCA socket in the correct position with the adjuster block in the LCA. The suspension is in full rebound, bump stop removed, the UCA is as low as it can go, therefore the LCA is aswell. It's just a hair off. Is it possible new torsion bars could be slightly off? Dumb question I guess. Is it really uncommon to have to pop out balljoints to get a torsion bar into the socket? I have yet to have an issue getting torsion bars in and I'm kind of puzzled as to why I'm having an issue with this bar. Drivers side. Torsion bar marked "L". The adjuster arm would be about 2/3 of the way into where the adjuster block should be when the torsion bar slides in fully.

[chaos52]

They're brand new torsion bars? Have you tried flipping the bar end-for-end?
I'm assuming you've also administered the proper dose of sledge hammer?

I'm just grasping at straws here.

[Charger-Bodie]

Sometimes you need to turn the socket at the control arm a little further with a large channel lock pliers, allowing it to line up.

[bill440rt]

Brian just beat me to it. 

Or... crack the LCA pivot nut loose allowing the torsion bar socket to spin. Line it up with the torsion bar & reinstall. Just remember to put a load on the suspension before tightening up the LCA pivot nut again. 

[Chargerguy74]

Yup. Brand new bars. I've seen some pipe wrench cuts in these LCAs already, but I just can't see it working when there's zero clearance between the arm and adjuster block. The UCA is resting on its mount plate too. First time these LCAs were installed in this car also, but they were fine in the car I pulled them from, and no issue with the old bars/LCAs/crossmember. The pivot stud nuts are loose, and there is physically no more clearance to be gained without popping a balljoint out to allow the LCA to drop. Lots of left handed dead blow hits (I'm right handed) but the bar started to gouge into the socket rather than find its place...even lathered in grease. Something just isn't right. Gonna try old bars, and a different set of new bars to see if it can be narrowed down. I didn't try flipping the bar end for end, as I figured, with respect to each other, each end would line up the same.

I might try to pull the torsion bar crossmember from the car the LCAs came from. It is also possible this one is tweaked, but I definitely suspect the bar right now.

Roadblock after roadblock lol

[bordin34]

What size torsion bars. I want to say that when you go over a certain size bar it either is offset or isnt.
I remember when I put the firmfeel 1.06" bars in they lined up just fine and went in with only a little bit of persuasion.

[Chargerguy74]

What size torsion bars. I want to say that when you go over a certain size bar it either is offset or isnt.
I remember when I put the firmfeel 1.06" bars in they lined up just fine and went in with only a little bit of persuasion.

These are 1". I'll try the 1.06 on my next day off. If they fit, they'll stay in.

[bordin34]

After looking at the stock bars I removed, they are slightly offset. Try swapping your bars end to end. I bet they go in properly.

[Chargerguy74]

I'll try it out tomorrow. Thanks!

[Chargerguy74]

No dice on the endo swap. Tried the new 1.06" and same thing. Tried the factory bar, slips right in, a little slop in it too. These FF bars are tight. Since this isn't going to be the smoothest I'll wait until I get the tranny in and just install this bar once, rather than now and having to remove it to get the tranny in next week.

[c00nhunterjoe]

the heavier firm feel bars have zero offset. if you lay the stock bars on flat ground you will find that one end is flat while the other rests on the point. if you have the road race bars they will sit flat to flat. firm feel designs them this way so that there is less preload on the bars due to the increases in spring rate. you will need to tighten your adjuster until they line up with your control arm. do not try to lower the arm any further as your car will look like it has a lift kit on it.


edit: for what its worth, the labeling of "L" and "R" on the bars means absolutly nothing. you could put them in either side and they will function the exact same way. the sole reason for labeling them is so that once installed and used, if you ever removed them, you would know which side they came out of. once they have been twisting in a certain direction for some time it is importnat to maintain that movement. if you were to swap left for right after years of use, you risk breaking them.

you should also avoid the use of pliers, especially visegrips, on the bars. the marks will act as a weak spot and risk breakage as well. firmfeel will attest to all of my above statements.

[bordin34]

Interesting. Do you have calipers so you can measure the size of the hex of the firm feel bars v. the stockers. Also are the sockets in the crossmember and the control arms clean? Are you sure the LCA is assembled correctly?

[Chargerguy74]

Interesting. Do you have calipers so you can measure the size of the hex of the firm feel bars v. the stockers. Also are the sockets in the crossmember and the control arms clean? Are you sure the LCA is assembled correctly?

Yes to all questions.

[Highbanked Hauler]

 You didn't say but did you slobber some grease into the ends of the bars ? Disconnect the sway bars so the control arms float free.   never really had a problem but there is always a first time.

[Nacho-RT74]

I got more less same problem when installing the forst time my FF 1.06" bars. Had to force in the adjuster socket/LCA untill meet with T bar. LCA totally loosen from spindle

[Chargerguy74]

You didn't say but did you slobber some grease into the ends of the bars ? Disconnect the sway bars so the control arms float free.   never really had a problem but there is always a first time.

Yeah, I did mention grease, they go in just fine, just not when the adjuster block is in the LCA. Gonna try help get it in place with a large crescent while someone swings the hammer. It's only a few degrees from going home.

[Chargerguy74]

I got more less same problem when installing the forst time my FF 1.06" bars. Had to force in the adjuster socket/LCA untill meet with T bar. LCA totally loosen from spindle

How do you like those 1.06 bars? I've got 1.06 and 1". Gonna run the 1" first I think.

[bordin34]

I wish I went to a firmer bar than the 1.06". However, I dont really care about ride quality, its not awful but its not great. The real problem is the lack of good front shock selection. I dont think there is anything out there that is made to control a larger bar, 1.06" is about at the limit of what the GR-2 will handle.

[Chargerguy74]

To tell you the truth, I love how my car handled stock. I love how raw, loud, and rough it was. I'm not really expecting, or hoping for new car handling. These bars will be a huge improvement over stock though.

[Nacho-RT74]

I think we discussed this on another thread.

I went 1.06" however I could get 1" and was to be happy too.

the main "problem" on 1.06" could be for a nice low ride height ( not extreme but a bit less than stock ) the adjuster bolt will be allmost totally threated out. That makes the spring rate ( IMHO ) still some lousy from specs with a 400 weight. Still way better than the stock of course!!!!. Maybe a 440 or Hemi will be better match with 1.06".

I think 1" will be a good option, but being overseas ( and the money exchange rate ) I can't buy one and another and try both. Not too many ppl will buy the ones I will discard.

Can't tell if with 1" TBs and getting a tighter adjuster bolt, the spring rate response would be better than with a 1.06" bars with bolt barelly threated in ? some expert could say if I'm wrong or not

and agreed on shocks... Would wish something similar to what I have heard about Gas-A-Just as a good deal for the price, but GR2s are all what we can get without mods, on an affordable option.

I have read Monroematics could be better Than KYB GR2s ? dunno really, and I can't afford Blinstens ( if they really exist for 73 and lates fronts )

Is not just the TBs, is a Shocks and T bars Combination

[Chargerguy74]

Yeah, I recall, just wanted to see if your mind changed at all.

Got the torsion bar in. What I did was slide it in place until there was just enough hex sticking out of the LCA socket to get a wrench on it. Then with a snipe, I loaded the pig until I could slip the adjuster block into the LCA. Used a bigger hammer to drive it in further after. But it definitely shouldn't be this hard.

[c00nhunterjoe]

Yeah, I recall, just wanted to see if your mind changed at all.

Got the torsion bar in. What I did was slide it in place until there was just enough hex sticking out of the LCA socket to get a wrench on it. Then with a snipe, I loaded the pig until I could slip the adjuster block into the LCA. Used a bigger hammer to drive it in further after. But it definitely shouldn't be this hard.

how high is the front end sitting now after installing using this method? did you call firmfeel as i suggested? did you verify if your new bars are flat to flat, or flat to point?

[Chargerguy74]

c00nhunterjoe, my apologies! I missed your previous post. Not intentionally! Looking at the post times I can see that I assumed bordin34 was the only new post and I replied to that.

I will look into this tomorrow. I did not know this about their bars. My method definitely sounds a lot worse than it really is. But I dont think I shouldve had to do this. It was only a couple degrees off from going in nicely. I will also call FF to see what they have to say as well. I looked at loading the bars (well just having the LCA sockets rotated to a normally loaded position, like I think you're describing) but it looked like there wouldn't be much adjustment left if I installed them in this position.

Also, the car is sitting okay right now height wise. I loaded up the bars quite a bit to get the K frame off the bottle jack, and the car off the lift. It doesn't seem overly high at all. But no measuring or adjusting to proper ride height was done. I quit for the day.

Thanks 

[Chargerguy74]

the heavier firm feel bars have zero offset. if you lay the stock bars on flat ground you will find that one end is flat while the other rests on the point. if you have the road race bars they will sit flat to flat. firm feel designs them this way so that there is less preload on the bars due to the increases in spring rate. you will need to tighten your adjuster until they line up with your control arm. do not try to lower the arm any further as your car will look like it has a lift kit on it.

My 1" bars are as you described, flat down on one side is point down on the other. Spoke with Dick today and the 73+ 1.00" and greater bars have a slight offset. The 72 down 1.06" and up have a slight offset.


edit: for what its worth, the labeling of "L" and "R" on the bars means absolutly nothing. you could put them in either side and they will function the exact same way. the sole reason for labeling them is so that once installed and used, if you ever removed them, you would know which side they came out of. once they have been twisting in a certain direction for some time it is importnat to maintain that movement. if you were to swap left for right after years of use, you risk breaking them.

I asked about this as well, and as long as there is no offset they could go on either side.

you should also avoid the use of pliers, especially visegrips, on the bars. the marks will act as a weak spot and risk breakage as well. firmfeel will attest to all of my above statements.

Dick did say they've only ever had 1 bar break and it was really chewed up by vice grips. If one were to nick or chew up a bar it just needs to be smoothed down really nice and you should be in the clear from future problems. One of my original bars was ground down a fair bit for exhaust clearance. It was really smoothed out and had lasted 40 years and 80K miles, but it scares me to look at it.

I think I'll remove the powder coat on the hex to make things easier for myself in the future. I think a little more clearance would've helped. The factory bars are fairly sloppy in comparison.