Mopar Myths BUSTED

[Cncguy]

I thought this would be a good thread to dispel, or bust any current, or past mopar myths.

I will start. A common myth is that the A833 18 spline was only available in the Hemi. Presumably why it's called the Hemi trans. In fact it was used in all 440, and 426 hi performance applications

[timmycharger]

That having a 440 HP2 block automatically means its from a six pack engine... 

[Troy]

Ones I hear all the time about my cars:
Headrests weren't available in 68.
All E Bodies had sport mirrors.

Troy

[Mytur Binsdirti]

I thought this would be a good thread to dispel, or bust any current, or past mopar myths.

I will start. A common myth is that the A833 18 spline was only available in the Hemi. Presumably why it's called the Hemi trans. In fact it was used in all 440, and 426 hi performance applications

There is a big difference between a myth and being uninformed. Of course, youth and inexperience may have something to do with it.

[Cncguy]

I thought this would be a good thread to dispel, or bust any current, or past mopar myths.

I will start. A common myth is that the A833 18 spline was only available in the Hemi. Presumably why it's called the Hemi trans. In fact it was used in all 440, and 426 hi performance applications

There is a big difference between a myth and being uninformed. Of course, youth and inexperience may have something to do with it.

Yes! But This is a good way to get them informed.

[Cncguy]

Small blocks and big blocks don't require different k members.

Except Hemi.

[Mike DC]

 

Small blocks and big blocks don't require different k members.

That one depends on the year.

--------------------------------------------------



I have yet to come across a real factory 440 Hemi 6-pack car.  

[Ghoste]

That the federal government gave Chrysler money during the Iacocca era.  The feds guaranteed the loan, essentially they were co-signors on money that Chrysler borrowed from the banks.  For taking this risk Chrysler paid the feds a handsome fee.

[bill440rt]

The General Lee was an option package in 1969. 

[ITSA426]

All b body hemi cars came with Dana rear ends

[Indygenerallee]

The General Lee was an option package in 1969. 

[stripedelete]

That the federal government gave Chrysler money during the Iacocca era.  The feds guaranteed the loan, essentially they were co-signors on money that Chrysler borrowed from the banks.  For taking this risk Chrysler paid the feds a handsome fee.

Reality:  Deal included huge Chrysler-only tax breaks.   Government was paid back with their own money.

[TUFCAT]

Chrysler built a running driving prototype of a bright red 1970, 4-door Barracuda....aka 4-door 'Cuda concept car.  It was seen parked on a loading dock at Chrysler Highland Park Engineering complex by a mail-boy in November, 1969.  

[HANDM]

69 Chargers came with headlight bezels.....

[6bblgt]

440+6 engines had six pack rods

[Brock Lee]

1968-1970 Dodge Chargers are rare.

[ECS]

Chrysler built a running driving prototype of a bright red 1970, 4-door Barracuda.  It was seen parked on a loading dock at Chrysler Highland Park Engineering complex by a mail-boy in November, 1969.  

Other than your opinion of it being a "myth", could you please refer us to the documentation that "busts" the 4 Door Story?  Since you demand rock solid documentation for everything, I presume you have absolute proof that debunks Mr. Johnson's recollection of what he saw in 1969.......right?

4-Door Barracuda
As an employee of Chrysler Corporation in 1969-70, I had the opportunity to see many things the "general public" never did.  Not because I was that  important, but because I worked in the mail room and delivering the mail was that important. One such sight was a bright red 1970, 4-door Barracuda.  It was parked for only about two days on a kind of  loading dock attached to the back of Chrysler's World Headquarters building in their Highland Park complex.  This was around November of 1969.  The dock seemed to be a temporary holding cell for an assortment of interesting cars.  It was the same building Lynn Townsend, Virgil Boyd and more importantly Tom Hoover worked in.  Naturally, Chrysler never made a 4-door Barracuda but the one I saw looked surprisingly good.  I always assumed it was created around a B-body chassis because the proportions still looked just right despite the obvious body stretch necessary  to pull it off. Having seen this car is even more significant now since the Autoweek story about Ford using their new Mustang platform to build other, less sporty cars - like a 4-door.   Roger Johnson

[JB400]

Chrysler built a running driving prototype of a bright red 1970, 4-door Barracuda.  It was seen parked on a loading dock at Chrysler Highland Park Engineering complex by a mail-boy in November, 1969.   

Chrysler built a running driving prototype of a bright red 1970, 4-door Barracuda.  It was seen parked on a loading dock at Chrysler Highland Park Engineering complex by a mail-boy in November, 1969.   

Other than your opinion of it being a "myth", could you please refer us to the documentation that "busts" the 4 Door Story?  Since you demand rock solid documentation for everything, I presume you have absolute proof that debunks Mr. Johnson's recollection of what he saw in 1969.......right?

4-Door Barracuda
As an employee of Chrysler Corporation in 1969-70, I had the opportunity to see many things the "general public" never did.  Not because I was that  important, but because I worked in the mail room and delivering the mail was that important. One such sight was a bright red 1970, 4-door Barracuda.  It was parked for only about two days on a kind of  loading dock attached to the back of Chrysler's World Headquarters building in their Highland Park complex.  This was around November of 1969.  The dock seemed to be a temporary holding cell for an assortment of interesting cars.  It was the same building Lynn Townsend, Virgil Boyd and more importantly Tom Hoover worked in.  Naturally, Chrysler never made a 4-door Barracuda but the one I saw looked surprisingly good.  I always assumed it was created around a B-body chassis because the proportions still looked just right despite the obvious body stretch necessary  to pull it off. Having seen this car is even more significant now since the Autoweek story about Ford using their new Mustang platform to build other, less sporty cars - like a 4-door.   Roger Johnson

Considering the fact that this deal between the both of you is old and overdone, it's time for both of you to let it go.  Both of you have been jumping from forum to forum, lunging at each others' throats.  It's time that either both of you step away from the subject, or step away from the computer

[ECS]

Considering the fact that this deal between the both of you is old and overdone, it's time for both of you to let it go.

I don't have a problem doing just that!  I'm curious however.  Had I not commented, would you still have posted to chastise his "old and overdone" initiating jab or does the topic only become problematic when I respond?        

[JB400]

Considering the fact that this deal between the both of you is old and overdone, it's time for both of you to let it go.

I don't have a problem doing just that!  I'm curious however.  Had I not commented, would you still have posted to chastise his "old and overdone" initiating jab or does the topic only become a problematic when I respond?        

Honestly, I was seriously considering responding to Tufcat on this ordeal. I just decided to read another thread while I thought it over.  Being that you responded while I was still deciding, it just frosted the cake and added a cherry on top.  I figured I'd kill two birds with one stone and quote you both, considering my reply applies to both of you.  Tufcat and I agree on quite a few things, but this car isn't one of them.  I'd like to see you build it for the sake of being different.  It could be worse, you could of built a 4 dr. 2nd gen Charger.  Maybe, that would have been better.

Enough hijack, back to topic

[Ghoste]

That the federal government gave Chrysler money during the Iacocca era.  The feds guaranteed the loan, essentially they were co-signors on money that Chrysler borrowed from the banks.  For taking this risk Chrysler paid the feds a handsome fee.

Reality:  Deal included huge Chrysler-only tax breaks.   Government was paid back with their own money.

Government wasn't "paid back"- they never gave them any cash.  The tax break was Chrysler only because Chrysler was the only one about to go bankrupt at the time.  They also got concessions from the UAW.

[wingcar]

Chrysler built a running driving prototype of a bright red 1970, 4-door Barracuda.  It was seen parked on a loading dock at Chrysler Highland Park Engineering complex by a mail-boy in November, 1969.   

Some how I knew you would be throwing that one out at some point in time.....

[stripedelete]

That the federal government gave Chrysler money during the Iacocca era.  The feds guaranteed the loan, essentially they were co-signors on money that Chrysler borrowed from the banks.  For taking this risk Chrysler paid the feds a handsome fee.

Reality:  Deal included huge Chrysler-only tax breaks.   Government was paid back with their own money.

Government wasn't "paid back"- they never gave them any cash.  The tax break was Chrysler only because Chrysler was the only one about to go bankrupt at the time.  They also got concessions from the UAW.

Semantics....
They got a loan that they were able to pay back because they were given a different tax law from everyone else.  
They were also allowed to stiff their suppliers.  Sounds familiar.

Just to complex to simply state they didn't get a loan and bust a myth.

[Ghoste]

It isnt semantics.  The myth is that the federal government loaned them money and they didn't. 

[stripedelete]

It isnt semantics.  The myth is that the federal government loaned them money and they didn't. 

You are correct.  The government only guaranteed the loan.   

Maybe semantics is not the right word.  Lets say you need money, but, you are unwilling to accept charity.  So, I come over and give you $2,000 for your $20 dollar 10 speed bike.   What is that?   

The payback came in large part from the money that was not paid to the government in the form of taxes.

All good fun Ghoste.  Sometime we'll have a beer and you can convince me.      

[hemigeno]

A few common aero-related items:

> Daytona (and Superbird) nosecones were fiberglass

> Daytonas (and Charger 500's) were Charger R/T's randomly pulled from the line for conversion

> Street Daytonas (and Superbirds) were converted into NASCAR Grand National racecars

> 1970 Daytonas were factory-produced (excludes the watermelon car, although that was more or less a prototype anyway)

> On my myth list -- but perhaps not on everyones' -- is vinyl top '69 aero Chargers.  So far, I remain unconvinced that Chrysler ever sanctioned a vinyl top for 1969 aero Chargers (Charger 500 or Daytona) in either a ModTop material or otherwise.  Until credible evidence proves otherwise, I'll stick my neck out and call this a myth.  Dealer-installed or secondary-vendor-installed prior to delivery at the dealership or to the original owner?  Most definitely... but corporate-sanctioned??  This Missouri (i.e. The Show-Me-State) boy has seen nothing to convince me otherwise.

[John_Kunkel]

"Removing the accumulator spring will firm up the 1-2 upshift in a Torqueflite".

[TUFCAT]

MYTH: "front sway bars were left bare cast metal"  

[Aero426]

A few common aero-related items:

> Daytona (and Superbird) nosecones were fiberglass

> Daytonas (and Charger 500's) were Charger R/T's randomly pulled from the line for conversion

> Street Daytonas (and Superbirds) were converted into NASCAR Grand National racecars

> 1970 Daytonas were factory-produced (excludes the watermelon car, although that was more or less a prototype anyway)

> On my myth list -- but perhaps not on everyones' -- is vinyl top '69 aero Chargers.  So far, I remain unconvinced that Chrysler ever sanctioned a vinyl top for 1969 aero Chargers (Charger 500 or Daytona) in either a ModTop material or otherwise.  Until credible evidence proves otherwise, I'll stick my neck out and call this a myth.  Dealer-installed or secondary-vendor-installed prior to delivery at the dealership or to the original owner?  Most definitely... but corporate-sanctioned??  This Missouri (i.e. The Show-Me-State) boy has seen nothing to convince me otherwise.

Add:  Superbirds were built at Creative Industries. 

[histoy]

Excuse my ignorance guys, but where were the Super Birds built?

[TUFCAT]

Built at Lynch Road Assembly without nose and wing. Trucked 5-1/2 miles to Chrysler's Clairpointe Facility on Jefferson Ave and Clairpointe Street (basically across the street from Jefferson Assembly) to have the wing and nose installed and painted...

Once completed, the Superbirds were trucked back to Lynch Road for invoicing, final assembly/inspection, and shipping.  

Clairpointe was also known as the pilot plant where new models (pilot cars) were assembled - partly by hand, and partly using their own small scale assembly line to test and calibrate new assembly line fixtures, etc.

[ACUDANUT]

NICE THREAD. If you bust a myth (so to speak) at least explain why it was false.  

[histoy]

Thanks for the Super Bird info TUFCAT. 

[pettybird]

A few common aero-related items:

> Daytona (and Superbird) nosecones were fiberglass

> Daytonas (and Charger 500's) were Charger R/T's randomly pulled from the line for conversion

> Street Daytonas (and Superbirds) were converted into NASCAR Grand National racecars

> 1970 Daytonas were factory-produced (excludes the watermelon car, although that was more or less a prototype anyway)

> On my myth list -- but perhaps not on everyones' -- is vinyl top '69 aero Chargers.  So far, I remain unconvinced that Chrysler ever sanctioned a vinyl top for 1969 aero Chargers (Charger 500 or Daytona) in either a ModTop material or otherwise.  Until credible evidence proves otherwise, I'll stick my neck out and call this a myth.  Dealer-installed or secondary-vendor-installed prior to delivery at the dealership or to the original owner?  Most definitely... but corporate-sanctioned??  This Missouri (i.e. The Show-Me-State) boy has seen nothing to convince me otherwise.

Add:  Superbirds were built at Creative Industries. 

Add:  Superbirds are Dodges.
The nose cones fit C3 Corvettes
Your neighbor's cousin's aunt's high school crush had one JUST LIKE THIS.

General:
My/my brother's/this guy's (insert any muscle car here) would pull the front wheels in any gear
(Same situation as above) would do 180mph BONE STOCK.

[pettybird]

Built at Lynch Road Assembly without nose and wing. Trucked 5-1/2 miles to Chrysler's Clairpointe Facility on Jefferson Ave and Clairpointe Street (basically across the street from Jefferson Assembly) to have the wing and nose installed and painted...

Scoops and decals installed too 

[TUFCAT]

MYTH:  "White Hat Special" package came standard with a white vinyl top *  

* - Actually buyers had the choice of black or white....and ironically most were black.

[Ghoste]

I believe you could delete the top too?

[ACUDANUT]

NICE THREAD. If you bust a myth (so to speak) at least explain why it was false.  

x2

[Mopar4me]

A limited slip differential is called a Posi!

[familymopar]

MYTH:  "White Hat Special" package came standard with a white vinyl top *  

* - Actually buyers had the choice of black or white....and ironically most were black.

I think buyers of WHS cars could have white, black, green, or tan vinyl tops, but they had to have a vinyl top.

http://www.hamtramck-historical.com/images/dealerships/DealershipLetters/1-2-1969%20letter%20white%20hat%20special%20cars%20p2.jpg

[TUFCAT]

I think buyers of WHS cars could have white, black, green, or tan vinyl tops, but they had to have a vinyl top.

http://www.hamtramck-historical.com/images/dealerships/DealershipLetters/1-2-1969%20letter%20white%20hat%20special%20cars%20p2.jpg

Good catch Chuck!  Thx. 

[Ghoste]

That Road Runners could be had with a 440 four barrel.  (excluding the Superbird and Road Runner GTX)

[myk]

That Road Runners could be had with a 440 four barrel.  (excluding the Superbird and Road Runner GTX)

Wait...they couldn't get a 440/4?

[TUFCAT]

Correct. The 383 was the standard Road Runner engine* (w/hemi optional) until 1971 when the optional 340 was added to the line-up...  

In 1972 the Hemi was gone of course, the 400 became standard, 340 optional, and 440-4bbl added as top engine option (called Roadrunner GTX).

In 1973 the standard engine became the 318.... the 340, 400, and 440 were optional. The same in 1974 (the only variation was 360 replacing 340).

*  excluding 1969 A12 440-6 package.

[Kern Dog]

> Daytona (and Superbird) nosecones were fiberglass

Really? They were not steel?
Some beliefs that I do not agree with:
Torsion bar suspensions are antiquated and need to be replaced with some coil over type design with a rack and pinion steering.
Mopars are straight line cars...handling has never been a consideration.

[Ghoste]

They are steel, he meant the glass ones as the myth.

[Daytona R/T SE]

The Myth:

Left hand threads on the wheel studs are stupid.  




Uh... Turn the lug wrench the other way, Gomer.   

[myk]

Mopars are straight line cars...handling has never been a consideration.

Thankfully the aftermarket keeps that a myth as well...

[Ghoste]

Thankfully?

[Cncguy]

Just thought of this one. NOS when referring to parts means New Old Stock, not new reproduction of an old part.