my new carb

[Stegs]

well guys, I was having trouble with my factory carter.....I had a bad surge going 45 or faster.....plus I had a really bad stumble when starting out from a stop sign.

Car would spit and backfire, and then it would take off like crazy

Anyway, got the carb off and had a 'expert" look at it.

Turns out my accelerator pump was  shot and there were some rods ? for the float that were bent horrible.....

Long story short he pretty much said I need a entire rebuild, but by that time id be better off with a new carb

I told him I was thinking about a holley or a proform......he told me he has never been let down by a edelbrock carb

Well he made me a deal on a new edelbrock and put it on.....and I must say WOW!

really showed me how tired and worn out that carter was. He suggest that I go with a 600 cfm and wait to go bigger until I add bigger cam/heads etc


I must say the 600cfm I thought would be too small, but when the vac secondary's open....wooooo she moves!


im glad I went this way, the car runs and idles way better, no more surge or sputter !

I know you guys said go with holley or proform, but so far I love this edelbrock! I hope it continues to preform this good years down the road

[ODZKing]

What was the Carter?
What engine?
What year/car?

[Ghoste]

The Edelbrocks are essentially knock offs of the Carters so it should be fine for quite a while.  Its kind of a plug and play carb in a sense.  Did you get the Performer or the Thunder?

[Stegs]

the carter was the original that came on a 440

car is a 69, motor i think is a 70, might be a 69


and yes the edelbrocks was a direct bolt on, we only needed a adaptor for the linkage

i went with the performer series, 600 cfm vac secondarys

[Ghoste]

Thats like an AFB then, it'll work well.

[Stegs]

Thats like an AFB then, it'll work well.

so far its a night and day difference....I figure if it can get me by for a few years while I save up to build the 440 a little, that's good with me.

car runs great on it, matched with my firecore ignition.....really woke it up

[Ghoste]

Oh yeah, it'll be more than a few years.  Not a lot to go wrong in one.

[Stegs]

Oh yeah, it'll be more than a few years.  Not a lot to go wrong in one.

good to know...I know a lot of people said not to get a holley, and that I would be disappointed. But This guy promised I would like and I must say, its pretty nice....easy to adjust (if I needed too)

im happy this far

[Ghoste]

The Holley is awesome and can outperform the Carters but in a case like yours I don't think you're as concerned about getting it tuned to that razor edge right now.

[Stegs]

The Holley is awesome and can outperform the Carters but in a case like yours I don't think you're as concerned about getting it tuned to that razor edge right now.

not at all, ill save that for later on when I go thru the motor....but right now to get the car back up to a great running and driving car, this will work and does work awesome

[firefighter3931]

Good to hear the car is running better.  For some reason the eddy 600 carbs are better calibrated than the larger 750 version. I've heard this from a few guys who use them in a race dual quad setup using a crossram.

That carb should give you wicked throttle response due to the smaller venturies and increased velocity 



Ron

[Stegs]

Good to hear the car is running better.  For some reason the eddy 600 carbs are better calibrated than the larger 750 version. I've heard this from a few guys who use them in a race dual quad setup using a crossram.

That carb should give you wicked throttle response due to the smaller venturies and increased velocity 



Ron

its got good throttle response for sure, way better than what I had of course....one thing I really like is the car is very "drive-able" right now....but its like a world of difference once those secondary's kick in.......car moves.....I think I did notice when I got home that I had some knock going on at higher rpms....

now he tuned the carb hooking it up to the vac machine...so that might be off or I need a timing change with the new carb...otherwise from idle to 3/4 car runs great!!

[firefighter3931]

The high rpm "ping" could be a fuel issue....it might need increased jetting on the secondary side. If the carb was just bolted on out of the box this is likely the case because a single 600 cfm carb is on the small side for even a stock 440. 


Ron

[Ghoste]

And is not the issue with the 750's that they are set up lean?

[Stegs]

The high rpm "ping" could be a fuel issue....it might need increased jetting on the secondary side. If the carb was just bolted on out of the box this is likely the case because a single 600 cfm carb is on the small side for even a stock 440.  


Ron

ill have to drive it some more this weekend when it finally stops raining (I hope) I will put some miles on it and see what it does...make sure that's its the carb and not some other noise....

we will see this weekend

and I thought a 600 cfm carb was the correct size for a stock 440, then when you modify you would go bigger? I thought for sure I read that somewhere here on the forums???

anyway, either way the car runs great the way it sits, just got to make sure the pinging, if I have to change the jetting, that's no big deal...

[myk]

The high rpm "ping" could be a fuel issue....it might need increased jetting on the secondary side. If the carb was just bolted on out of the box this is likely the case because a single 600 cfm carb is on the small side for even a stock 440. 


Ron

Question:  why is it that online 'carb CFM "calculators" typically recommend much smaller numbers than what is generally accepted by people who know and build these sorts of engines and setups? 

[Stegs]

The high rpm "ping" could be a fuel issue....it might need increased jetting on the secondary side. If the carb was just bolted on out of the box this is likely the case because a single 600 cfm carb is on the small side for even a stock 440. 


Ron

Question:  why is it that online 'carb CFM "calculators" typically recommend much smaller numbers than what is generally accepted by people who know and build these sorts of engines and setups? 

well according to summit racing carb calculator a 440 with a maximum rpm of 5000 needs a carb to flow 541 cfm

I have a 440, get no where near 5000 rpms with it and have a 600cfm carb

[Ghoste]

The calculators are generic by nature so don't necessarily apply to all engines.  Plus, with car guys if more is better than too much has to be perfect which leads to things like Dominators on your 318 and then with the resulting performance loss from that the carb builder becomes the bad guy.  Easier to recommend small which will give  sharper throttle response and overall more driveability in many situations.  And there are a lot of ways to grade carbs.  So a Holley rated at 750 could be larger than a competitor rating of 800 based on how they were tested.  This can make for a lot of confusion.  In general,  its best to be conservative.
If an engine already benefited from good heads and cam design and such, like many Mopars, then often a bigger carb will bring some more to the table.

[fy469rtse]

i agree with ghoste, too many varibles,
easy way for you stegs is get the tuning kit for your size carb, comes with needles, jets and a chart for jetting up , remember dont do too many things at once , change try it , if its wrong easy to change back or know what you did wrong

[Challenger340]

To Carter Carb sizes....
My '69 Charger R/T factory 440 Magnum Engine, has a Carter AVS Carburetor, which is stamped #4618S. It is Factory original never touched same as the Engine,  until I had to change 1 float that went heavy, but that's another story.
Anyways,
Depending upon who you talk to ? or what spec book and guy refers to ?... the 4618S carter carbs were between 750 to 800 cfm ?

I never liked Carters... I've pitched more of them in the can over the years than I care to relate... until THIS factory one I have here !
It performs flawlessly with good idle, great response, and very good power.

[Stegs]

well ill get my carb jets properly done and then go from there



I hope to get out and drive it but its been raining here for days its seems 

[don duick]

I also have a 600 edelbrock performer carb and it runs great but I do get more performance from my 750 holley. I use this edelbrock carb as a backup when and if my holley plays up, which it has for unknown and mysterious reasons. your edelbrock carb does not have vacumn secondaries they are mechanical. You must be referring to the plate above which opens with the secondaries. If it runs as good as you say I would not touch it. If you do, keep reference of the jets and rods that are in it now. 

[Ghoste]

I agree, don't fix it if it isn't broke.

[69wannabe]

I prefer a holley over an edelbrock but I have had better luck with the 600 eddy's over the 600 holley's. On the other hand the holley 750's are a much better carb than the 750 edelbrock IMO. Since I have had the charger with a big block in it the 750 holley DP was the best carb I ever had. I have an old 625 AVS that is a pretty good carb I use as a trial carb, the larger version AVS's are kinda hard to come by seems like since they were used on all the HP 440 engines and most people that have good one's tend to hang on to them. I have tried only one of the thunder series AVS carbs on a 304 jeep engine and it worked very nicely on there. Haven't heard very muck about these carbs but the one I got for the jeep was a good one. Anybody on here tried one of them summit 600 carbs??? Wonder if they are any good for the price???

[Stegs]

I also have a 600 edelbrock performer carb and it runs great but I do get more performance from my 750 holley. I use this edelbrock carb as a backup when and if my holley plays up, which it has for unknown and mysterious reasons. your edelbrock carb does not have vacumn secondaries they are mechanical. You must be referring to the plate above which opens with the secondaries. If it runs as good as you say I would not touch it. If you do, keep reference of the jets and rods that are in it now. 

I thought they were vac secondary......but I was mistaken .......but one thing I know is when they open up its quite the ride!..

and when I put the car in 1st gear and mash the gas, it will spin the tires thru 2nd gear into 3rd......never did that before either

[Ghoste]

It's a great feeling isn't it? 

[Stegs]

It's a great feeling isn't it? 

yea, my dads truck is a 2012 superduty with the 6.7 powerstroke, it is kinda like that when the turbo spools .....

you go from just cruising to "throw you back" .......give you goosebumps

cant wait to change out the exhaust and get some sound!

My neighbors stop in once in a while and say that there have been a lot of black marks left in the area lately 

[firefighter3931]

Hey Scott,

Glad to hear the car is running much stronger than before. 

A top shelf ignition system and well tuned carb make a huge difference huh ? 

I remember you saying that the car had a hard time turning the tires over when you first got it....now it boils them through 3 gears. 



Ron

[Stegs]

Hey Scott,

Glad to hear the car is running much stronger than before.  

A top shelf ignition system and well tuned carb make a huge difference huh ?  

I remember you saying that the car had a hard time turning the tires over when you first got it....now it boils them through 3 gears.  



Ron

well it did, but when we pulled my old carter apart, turns out that some rods were bent? float was way off, not to mention the accelerator pump was bad too

the motor is strong, not 100% but very close.....Im wondering if in the spring I should replace the xr5 plugs with new, seeing the car ran most of the summer with a crappy carb


as far as the new one goes.....1st gear and mash the gas......those poor tire don't stand a chance......same goes thru 2nd gear...first part of 3rd!  


and will all new drum brakes all the way around....car actually stops in the lane....not halfway to the ditch or oncoming traffic!  


ron your firecore ignition is awesome....before the car almost had a rough, choppy idle, sounded cool but had the distinct unburned fuel smell to it


now the car is much much smoother, idles nicer and cleaner....the exhaust almost has a different note with the firecore......180 degrees in the better direction!!

[firefighter3931]

Those of the kind of reports we all like to hear ! 

It's allways a great feeling when we make changes and there is a marked improvement in performance and street manners. 

As for the plugs ; I'm pretty sure you won't have anything to worry about. The Firecore system has a monster spark and any fouling will get cleaned up in short order once the fuel curve is adjusted correctly. You can allways pull a few plugs to see if there is any carbon buildup but my guess is that you won't find any....they should be nice and clean. 



Ron

[Stegs]

Those of the kind of reports we all like to hear ! 

It's allways a great feeling when we make changes and there is a marked improvement in performance and street manners. 

As for the plugs ; I'm pretty sure you won't have anything to worry about. The Firecore system has a monster spark and any fouling will get cleaned up in short order once the fuel curve is adjusted correctly. You can allways pull a few plugs to see if there is any carbon buildup but my guess is that you won't find any....they should be nice and clean. 



Ron