Ignition just stopped - no starter - no gauges - advice please on trouble shoot?

[XH29N0G]

I went to take the charger out this am and after warm up, the car just stopped dead.  I am looking for advice on how to trouble shoot.

The key does not turn it over.
The battery is charged.
I did checked across the fusible link on the engine side of the firewall and that is continuous.
I put the volt meter on the +/- of the coil and do not see a change key on/key off.

It has an MSD 6AL.

Is there a write up somewhere that describes the way to trouble shoot.

Thanks

[ACUDANUT]

Maybe the MSD electro box ?

[ws23rt]

Battery ground connection

[XH29N0G]

Thank you for the quick responses. 

The key alarm still works and there appears to be 12V (11.8 or so) between the hot cable to the starter relay and the line that goes out from the starter relay.  I have a multimeter to check continuity etc....

I am suspecting something with the key, because it turned off from running (like the key was switched off) and then wouldn't even turn over when I tried the key switch.  My hunch is that both of these happening would rule out something in the MSD box (the ballast is jumped), but I know just enough to get myself in trouble and not enough to solve this (yet). 

[tan top]

 what distributor  is it ?

[XH29N0G]

It is an MSD billet distributor.

Would something with the MSD box cause the key not to turn over the engine? 

Also, is it possible that a fusible link would show continuity but be broken.  I unplugged the end from the firewall feedthrough block and checked continuity to the starter relay.

[flyinlow]

Basics:

turn on headlights.....normal brightness? any change when trying to crank the engine?

hold key in start, move gearshift... park to neutral     or push clutch in all the way with a manual  ...does it crank?

jump starter relay with a screwdriver...does it crank ? do this in park, with parking brake set, do not stand in front of the car while doing this.

nothing on the MSD box that I can think of  would keep the car from cranking. did you wire the MSD box? I put a 30 amp fuse in the power feed to the box, if someone used a fuse maybe it failed. Would still crank.

[XH29N0G]

So here is what I have so far.

The Headlights work,  the Engine turns over if I jump the starter relay.  One additional thing - I noticed the gauges do not move when the key is turned on (no deflection on any gauges that I can tell).

Any ideas

[Brock Lee]

I had two MSD boxes go bad. Where is yours located? Just having that experience, that is where I would start looking.

FWIW, I once had one go bad when I was hundreds of miles from home on a Sunday. Since that event I keep a spare MSD box in the trunk. Haven't had a problem since, but if I ever took the spare out, it probably would die again...lol. 

[XH29N0G]

My MSD box is next to the horn on the passenger side of the engine bay.

I am missing something.  

I did not install the MSD box myself, so I am not familiar with the wiring.  If it went,  would it stop the key from engaging the starter, or make the gauges (e.g., the gas gauge) stop working when the key is in 'on' position?  

Could it have knocked out this circuit?

[Charger-Bodie]

Bad conection at the firewall bulkhead ? Try wiggling the plug ins and try again.

[polywideblock]

wouldn't be the second stop of the ignition switch burnt out would it 

[XH29N0G]

I am completely flummoxed.

I pulled and reseated the bulkhead connectors (no change)

I pulled the plug to the key switch to test the key switch and think it is OK.

yellow wire (starter on when key in start pos)
black wire (accessory on when key in run position)
dark blue wire (ign 1 on when key in start position)
brown wire (ign 2 on when key in run position)
red  assumed main line in
blank (should be orange)
red
red

I checked the current going to the key and the red (in) was 12V.

I reseated this plug, tried the key again and the starter engaged and the engine started.

Since I did not solve this issue and prefer not to be stranded someplace, what is everyone's best guess (key switch?  I think the plug to the key switch looks like it should seat fine, but maybe that was it.  The plug looked well seated when I removed it.)

[flyinlow]

Unless it was wired in an unusual way the MSD Box experiencing a fault or if it became unplugged will not effect the the ignition switch (key) cranking the car. The MSD box main power is supposed to come strait from the battery. Normally less than 10 amps thru the #12 gauge red wire. if this wire was shorted to ground or the box shorted internally ,the 12Gauge red wire would get very hot and melt from the battery's full current, possibly starting a fire. it would not effect the ignition switch or bulkhead connectors. the MSD box gets a very small current from the ignition switch during cranking and running to tell the box to operate. I do not think this is your problem.

I think you have an intermintant connection likely where you reseated it.Possible the switch. Look for loose or dirty connections.

Learn how to hot wire you ignition with a jumper . This is a good thing to know how to do on a car that is running fine, but in your case until you are sure you have found the problem at least you can hotwire the ignition and jump the starter relay to get home.   if I remember its the small red wire. Check you intructions or look at the MSD wiring diagram on their website. 

[XH29N0G]

Thank you for the wise counsel.  I hadn't thought of that, but it makes complete sense.

Learn how to hot wire you ignition with a jumper . This is a good thing to know how to do on a car that is running fine, but in your case until you are sure you have found the problem at least you can hotwire the ignition and jump the starter relay to get home.   if I remember its the small red wire. Check you intructions or look at the MSD wiring diagram on their website. 

[Charger-Bodie]

Also could be bad connection at the volt gauge. I'd check that before driving it anymore. You may have just jiggled it when under the dash by the switch.

[myk]

Also could be bad connection at the volt gauge. I'd check that before driving it anymore. You may have just jiggled it when under the dash by the switch.

I like your previous suggestion about the bulkhead connectors-only time I ever saw my electrical system fall flat on its face was when I was having conductivity issues with those pieces.  'OP, just because you've checked them doesn't mean they're good...

[XH29N0G]

Thanks.  I plan on keeping an eye on this and hope to diagnose.  It is a problem when a problem goes away because I don't know if it is fixed permanently or only until the next time I drive.

Re Volt gauge - do you mean the ammeter.  I definitely jostled those connections, but I also had current running through it, just not from the key. 

I also only disconnected and reconnected the bulkhead connector and agree it could have a problem.  Right now, my bet is on the red hot wire to the key or something in the ignition switch itself.  The first time I tried to check continuity I did not get a response I could see on some key pins.  I then tried again because I thought I could do better at checking and they all worked as they were supposed to.

Then I reconnected thinking OK it is not the ignition switch, but when I tried the key (as I was doing each time after checking something) the car turned over and then started.  I am thinking about buying a spare ignition switch.  The ones on Year one are much more expensive ($95) than the ones listed on the Advance auto site ($45).  Is there a difference in quality of is it just mark up.

[fy469rtse]

Keep your test light and multimeter with you,
I had one do this and was prepared when it did it to me ,
Turned out to be a joint in the battery lead, new
Heated up bad joint , couldn't see it , only showed up when car wouldn't start , once everything cooled down car would suddenly start,
Lesson here is just because its new and been replaced, don't discount it as a cause 

[XH29N0G]

Roger Roger.  Also now have some spares and alternate ways to start the car.  I took it for a drive yesterday - uneventful one, which was good.