My #71 K&K Daytona race tribute

[Indygenerallee]

Never did get to TIG (always wanted to) When I was college I took welding classes and the local union guys used the same shop to re-certify and I watch a guy TIG a pop can back together after he cut it apart in the middle! 

[Stevearino]

All our cages are mig welded. Good up to 250 m.p.h.

[Indygenerallee]

Good to know Steve! I received the roll cage today and it looks really nice, this may be a stupid question but how when you go to say one of those exhibition races how do they know you have a DOM or ERW cage?? Im still on the fence about sending it back for a DOM cage, I am going to call S&W in the morning and ask a few questions, should have done that in the beginning I guess 

[Daytona R/T SE]

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,112061.0.html   

[Indygenerallee]

Yep, seen that a while back pretty cool stuff, although those front stubs are not sectioned I would say those were meant for a later car maybe 71-up?

[Highbanked Hauler]

 ERW is regular mild steel isn't it ?  I saw in the ad  you ordered from that "they" don't recommend DOM tubing for drag racing.  What is it and why does it make a difference. I would think the quality of the weld would be more important than the type of steel.

[Stevearino]

Good to know Steve! I received the roll cage today and it looks really nice, this may be a stupid question but how when you go to say one of those exhibition races how do they know you have a DOM or ERW cage?? Im still on the fence about sending it back for a DOM cage, I am going to call S&W in the morning and ask a few questions, should have done that in the beginning I guess  

I really couldn't say on how they would check that. I know they use a sonic tester for wall thickness on our stuff. The dimensions might give it away though. 1.75" is pretty standard and has been for a while.

ERW is regular mild steel isn't it ?  I saw in the ad  you ordered from that "they" don't recommend DOM tubing for drag racing.  What is it and why does it make a difference. I would think the quality of the weld would be more important than the type of steel.

The DOM  used on a Cup chassis is mild steel.

[Indygenerallee]

From everything I have read ERW is the same tube as DOM they are both seamed tubing but the DOM goes through a second step where it is pulled through another die and mandrel bent, and supposedly the second step gives it more strength?

[Stevearino]

http://www.stockcarsteel.com/dom-steel-tube-drawn-over-mandrel/

[Highbanked Hauler]

http://www.stockcarsteel.com/dom-steel-tube-drawn-over-mandrel/

     That explains it  very well..

[Indygenerallee]

Thanks Steve, That is pretty much what I saw on another site, I did put the main hoop in the car and it fit great, they had left plenty of extra material to cut off and all the bends looked nice also held the A-pillar bars up and they flowed perfectly.

[Mike DC]

  
Get a piece of each in your hand and you can really tell that DOM is better made stuff.  

The shape of DOM more perfectly round & smoother sides.  You don't see or feel the electric weld seam at all.  It seems a little more dense in steel content when you start trying to cut & weld it.  For the same reasons I think ERW can be a bit easier to work with. 

 

[Indygenerallee]

The shape is more perfectly round & smoother sides.  You don't see or feel the electric weld seam at all. 

Yeah, but I can't feel the weld on these bars and the corner bends look like any mandrel bent exhaust I have ever had!? If I shot primer on the weld and painted it you would not be able to tell there was a weld there. but regardless I am going to send this back and get one in DOM.

[RallyeMike]

but regardless I am going to send this back and get one in DOM.

As much a pain it will be, I think you are making the right choice  . The stock car and road race rules in the three organizations I have previously been involved with, and the rules of places I have thought about racing have all required DOM. I think that is common.

[Indygenerallee]

I called and talked to Tom over at S&W race cars and he said he was surprised why I needed a DOM cage and I said I planned on racing it SCCA or oval track and he said yep it will need to be DOM, so I paid the difference and I will send this back Monday. 

[Stevearino]

Hate to contribute to a growing snowball but you might want to consider racing hubs and spindles for the front end. If you decide to throw that heavy piece into a corner really hard something might snap up there if it is not beefed up.

[Indygenerallee]

Yeah Steve, I really don't plan on driving it that hard even if I do take it to a track so I am not really overly concerned with that right now. I can always upgrade later if I want to.

[Highbanked Hauler]

Hate to contribute to a growing snowball but you might want to consider racing hubs and spindles for the front end. If you decide to throw that heavy piece into a corner really hard something might snap up there if it is not beefed up.

     Aren't we kind of limited on heavy duty suspensions in these cars ?   Good call on the DOM tubing I would not have known

[Stevearino]

Hate to contribute to a growing snowball but you might want to consider racing hubs and spindles for the front end. If you decide to throw that heavy piece into a corner really hard something might snap up there if it is not beefed up.

     Aren't we kind of limited on heavy duty suspensions in these cars ?   Good call on the DOM tubing I would not have known

I wouldn't suggest trying to replicate the materials used in 1970 in this case. I would just buy something off the shelf available to any Saturday night racer and mount pickup points to accommodate the hardware. Indygeneralee is right that he can change this out in the future without having to pre plan for it now. We cut out front and rear clips from finished race cars all the time to improve them. The cage and the body lowering stuff that's different. It's integral and that is something to be sure of right now.

[Mike DC]

  
Beefing up anything about the spindle of Mopar T-bar suspension means making it from scratch.  I don't think there is any aftermarket support to speak of.  Not in the circle-track racing sense.  The parts you'd need are not like GM or Mustang II stuff.  

[Indygenerallee]

I thought I had read somewhere a few years ago about modifying a C body spindle (believe it was a 72-up) they are heavy duty and along the lines of the Dodge truck spindles, I am going to do some more researching on that subject.

[Mike DC]

 
I think even the stock B-body spindle's snout was a bit larger in diameter by the mid-70s.

   

[Indygenerallee]

found this, http://www.cartechbooks.com/techtips/knuckleinterchange/

[Stevearino]

What I was suggesting would be possible down the road if need be would be a complete touring front clip assembly of which many are available pre engineered. No need for this to be manufacturer specific as it is self contained.
http://www.speedtechperformance.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=8/category_id=23/home_id=-1/mo de=prod/prd8.htm

[Indygenerallee]

The more I look at this I may just buy these 2" drop spindles since they have the large 73-up brakes (and beefier spindle) and that way I won't have to raise the front stub, lower the body 2" and not have to jack with any of the suspension geometry and still have the correct look for a Grand National Daytona.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1962-76-Mopar-A-B-E-Body-2-Drop-Spindles-/121403031342?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1c442f3f2e&vxp=mtr