Reward for my VIN, fender tag, and title

[Old Moparz]

I don't think the OP is "claiming" the tags are his, he purchased a tag/title/document-LESS race car intentionally - which is probably illegal in most states either on the part of the seller or buyer or both. & on the flip side, the person in possession of the tags/title/documentation has NO claim to the body as he knowingly purchased the documentation w/o a body.

What he is doing is offering a "bounty" on the missing tags/title/documentation that he has become aware of the existence of.  IMO the "bounty" is a little light, but one has to start somewhere.

What he did do is "out" XS29J8B370074 & the value of the car (if there is one) wearing those tags.  Maybe it's a stalled project that someone will bail on now that some additional facts have come to light.  

In his first post he is.....

I am the owner of a true 1968 Hemi 4 speed Charger. Several years ago the VIN, fender tag , and title were sold on eBay by someone doing something they should not have done. I have solid proof that my car is the real deal for it still has all the body #s along with the torque boxes and K frame. I am willing to pay $ 1,000.00 US for the return of these items ( NO QUESTIONS ASKED )  The photos are from the eBay ad
  Thanks for your help

[68pplcharger]

 

[moparnation74]

I got the eBay info from another source that made a copy of the photo and nothing else. He was not 100% on how long ago it was.  He thinks 10 years.

Does ebay have a record of this?  If not then all you have is a photo.  The one that is posted on the start of this thread does not show the actual ebay page.  Does your picture have that when it is zoomed out?

[Challenger340]

I wish the OP all the luck in his quest to re-unite the the tags etc. with the correct "body", I really do !
That said,
It would be really nice to see some photos of the Charger "body" in his possession, from which the Tags, Title etc., was removed from ?

IMO, that would lend some perspective as to the why this supposed "fraud" has happened in the first place ? or if someone intended a fraud at all ?
For all anybody here really knows.....
the OP could in fact, merely be in possession of a single "panel" from the original body, that has a "number stamp" on it ?

Just say'in
I can't see anybody with any brains or knowledge of these cars whatsoever over the last 10 or 15 years, removing a Fender Tag, VIN Plate, and Title, from any actually viable HEMI Charger "Body", even remotely restorable no matter the cost ?

Far from intending to commit a fraud.... there must be some mitigating circumstances to the Cars condition ?
Many Race-cars.... are no more than a roof and 1/4 original panels Zuess clipped onto a complete tube chassis ?
No rad support, No floors, No firewall or Dash, nothing, nada, zilch, as far as an actual "Body" left to restore ?
My point being....
depending upon a couple of clipped on "panels", that had some stamped #'s, which may be the case without photos... might be pretty thin ?

I believe it may help the OP's position substantially, in obtaining any assistance from people in locating the Tags/Title etc., if he could POST some Photos of "what" he actually has ?
otherwise,
for all anyone knows... he may just be a guy with one rotted out 1/4 panel with a # stamping, looking to commit the same re-body fraud as the other guys, albeit, but with one extra 1/4 panel stamping ?

[TUFCAT]

I can't see anybody with any brains or knowledge of these cars whatsoever over the last 10 or 15 years, removing a Fender Tag, VIN Plate, and Title, from any actually viable HEMI Charger "Body", even remotely restorable no matter the cost ?

That's a good point.  If the car is a total roach and can't be rebuilt into something worthy of hemi car status....what good does getting tags/title back serve? Some people might say "anything and everything can be rebuilt!"  Well, that's only somewhat true.  Even with AMD you'll need a truckload of money to invest. How much is too much?  

[moparnation74]

I can't see anybody with any brains or knowledge of these cars whatsoever over the last 10 or 15 years, removing a Fender Tag, VIN Plate, and Title, from any actually viable HEMI Charger "Body", even remotely restorable no matter the cost ?

That's a good point.  If the car is a total roach and can't be rebuilt into something worthy of a hemi car status....what good does getting tags/title back serve?  Some people may say "anything and everything can be rebuilt.  Well, this is somewhat true.  Even with AMD it still costs lots of money. Everything costs money. How much is too much?  

I agree as well, thats why I posted several times on here asking him to post a picture of this car.

[Challenger340]

I can't see anybody with any brains or knowledge of these cars whatsoever over the last 10 or 15 years, removing a Fender Tag, VIN Plate, and Title, from any actually viable HEMI Charger "Body", even remotely restorable no matter the cost ?

That's a good point.  If the car is a total roach and can't be rebuilt into something worthy of a hemi car status....what good does getting tags/title back serve?  Some people may say "anything and everything can be rebuilt.  Well, this is somewhat true.  Even with AMD it still costs lots of money. Everything costs money. How much is too much?  

I agree as well, thats why I posted several times on here asking him to post a picture of this car.

EXACTLY !
We need a picture of the entire car, or "what" he has ?
he may in fact, for all anyone knows, only have one 1/4 Panel with a # stamp.... that was Zuess Clipped onto a Race Car Tube Frame Chassis ?
Making his "restoration" attempt claims..... in essence,  no better than the same shylock activities to re-body'íng ?

If the OP has a "body", I believe it would help him gain assistance from people in his search, by proving it ?

[familymopar]

This thread poses a number of interesting questions, but we do not have near enough info to provide any worthy feedback. 

For starters, was the guy who sold the title the same guy that sold you the car?  Or better yet, was the seller of each the title holder?  If so, then when he sold the title it is likely he also sold rights to the car.  If not then he may have had no right to sell one or either.  If the purchaser of the title was an unwitting purchaser (a bona fide purchaser) and did not know of any wrong doing, then he still may have rights to the car and you may have an action against the seller but not the owner.  Although if the name of the seller and title holder were not the same, that may be enough to justify knowledge on the part of the buyer.  So it would be important to know if the seller was the title holder and who signed over the title?    What state are you in and is that the state that you purchased the car in?  What was purchased first, the car by you or the title by someone else?  There are too many questions and unknowns.

I think that if you ever want to put the car back on the road then you may want to consult an attorney who specializes in vehicle title disputes, but be aware that it could very well end in you no longer owning the shell, or whatever you have.  He or she could do a state by state title search and could likely subpoena ebay and get the buyer's and seller's info.

I will echo everyone else and say that you should post photos of what it is that you have.

[TUFCAT]

I will echo everyone else and say that you should post photos of what it is that you have.

[Homerr]

Seems like one of the following will happen -

1.  The OP and the title/VIN/fender tag will be reunited.

2.  After contacting the title/VIN/fender tag holder the OP will have the sheriff show up with a car hauler to impound the Charger for the title holder to come pick up.

3.  The OP will try to get a rebuild title and the body numbers will trace to the current title holder, see #2.

4.  The OP will build the Charger as a race car and never mention the VIN again.


Personally, I wouldn't put a dime in to it unless #1 happens.

[familymopar]

1.  The OP and the title/VIN/fender tag will be reunited
Personally, I wouldn't put a dime in to it unless #1 happens.

I certainly wouldn't put a dime in it with a legal title out there floating around!  I think there is a good chance that the OP doesn't own this car.  I would hate for OP to build the car up and then have it taken away.

Again, all of this depends on questions we don't have the answers to.  Hell, if the seller of the title is not the title holder then it is very possible neither of them own this car but rather the last legitimately titled owner does. 

I believe the legal term for what this could turn into is a "poopstorm".

[moparnation74]

Enough of the BS, Post Some Pictures of this race car you presumably own.

[TUFCAT]

I don't know why he wouldn't 

[familymopar]

Maybe the OP has heard enough to know that he does not want to hear anymore nor create more of a trail. 

[RallyeMike]

1) Came to the realization that connecting with the guy who has the title and legal ownership of his car perhaps isn't the brightest idea?

or

2) Having thrown the DodgeCharger.com masses into a dizzying spin, he's grown bored and is on to his next prank.

[ws23rt]

After reading this thread and hearing the discussion about something that was in the making 10-15 years ago got me remembering 40-45 years ago.

These hemi cars were rare from the start. Faking a car was done very early on and few new how to identify them properly.

Piecing together this kind of information is part of the hobby.

It is no surprise to be having this discussion today as their is little doubt much is left over from those earlier days of deception.

IMO this is a good and historically interesting topic.  It has value for all of us to understand the whole history of these cars from the time when they were new until now.---Is this not provenance---?

Sometimes provenance can bring the big bucks. Just a well known name as an owner can add to the value of a car.  We collectors are an odd and diverse group.

[A12 Superbee]

Maybe the OP has heard enough to know that he does not want to hear anymore nor create more of a trail. 

Nail on the head right there! The OP's absence and lack of pics of the race car speak volumes! Maybe his sole intention was to out the car as a rebody, mission accomplished, time to move on.

I still have a lot of popcorn handy tho, just in case there are .....developments!

[Davtona]

To me the tags and title belong to the hunk of sheetmetal that is left of the original car. Right we probably don't have the whole story here. But to say that they belong on any other body to which they are not original to only promotes the rebody problem we as a hobby have. And which as a hobby have not come to agreement as of yet on how to deal with it or what is allowed. I'm not sure the OP will ever get the tags and title and he is not at fault here it sounds like. My  here but it seems he has more right to them than whoever stuck them on another body. They go to that body and that body only. I just hope when/if this all comes out that it isn't a 2nd or 3rd owner of a Hemi Charger that finds out his car has been rebodied and isn't original like he thought.

[TUFCAT]

If the racecar started out as a 318 nobody would really care if it was rebodied.

EDIT:  "care" wasn't the best word choice.  Its still illegal and bad for the hobby.  I meant something along the lines of "so much exposure"

[Davtona]

If the racecar started out as a 318 nobody would really care if it was rebodied.

Really!! So we only care if somebodies rebodies rare cars?? Its either right or wrong. Black and white not grey.

[familymopar]

To me the tags and title belong to the hunk of sheetmetal that is left of the original car. Right we probably don't have the whole story here. But to say that they belong on any other body to which they are not original to only promotes the rebody problem we as a hobby have. And which as a hobby have not come to agreement as of yet on how to deal with it or what is allowed. I'm not sure the OP will ever get the tags and title and he is not at fault here it sounds like. My   here but it seems he has more right to them than whoever stuck them on another body. They go to that body and that body only. I just hope when/if this all comes out that it isn't a 2nd or 3rd owner of a Hemi Charger that finds out his car has been rebodied and isn't original like he thought.

I agree and disagree.  I agree that the title belongs to the car.  The question is who owns the car.  If another person purchased the title, the owner of the title owns the hunk of sheetmetal.  I don't think this would be as technically correct for the vin tag and certainly not the fender tag.  But the car really belongs to the title, not the other way around.  I think OP just poked a hornets nest and, seeing the hornets get stirred, decided the best way to not get stung was to be someplace else.

Of course all this still depends on "how" the title was sold, who was the seller, etc.

[fastmark]

Several years ago, I got a call from a Texas DPS trooper. He asked me a simple question. Did I know a certain fellow and what did I think of him. I told him just what I thought of the guy. He is a crook. He is known for taking race cars that have been cut up or modified and swapping the vins and all the other necessary numbers and such to a virgin body and representing them as a nicely restored original car. He had offered me a 69 GTX  convert  that had been reported stolen for the insurance claim so the vin was swapped to a Satellite convert, so it could be sold. He offered me an original 68 hemi dart that had been swapped and sold as a virgin car, as well. At that time, this guy was trying to buy my 65 hemi Coronet and he told me that he already had a virgin body waiting to accept my vin tag. I refused to sell him the car for that very reason. My car was only modified slightly in the rear wheel housing and was easily fixed. This guy is just a crook, plain and simple. I told the trooper that I only sold one car to this guy and would never do business with him again because of what I learned about him. Only after I told him this did he tell me that he was an investigator looking for a 68 Hemi Dart that had been stolen by this guy! He was in the auto theft division of the Texas DPS and that he was gathering evidence for a " Come to Jesus" meeting with this guy and that I had helped a bunch. He asked me if I knew who bought the Hemi Dart body and I did not. If I had bought that body and said "no", I would have been in trouble as well. If I had bought the body, then I would have had to surrender that body.

This story is not here say. And that is how the state of Texas views taking the vin tags off of cars and swapping them around. Someone, however far down the line, has committed fraud for profit. I'm not sure what the statue of limitations is on such things, but I'm sure some innocent parties will get hurt if the feds really want to investigate this thing. Re-bodies happen all the time, but in this case, they left the evidence intact that could cook their goose. Glad it's not my goose!

[TUFCAT]

If the racecar started out as a 318 nobody would really care if it was rebodied.

Really!! So we only care if somebodies rebodies rare cars?? Its either right or wrong. Black and white not grey.

The point is greed and money

[moparnation74]

If the racecar started out as a 318 nobody would really care if it was rebodied.

Really!! So we only care if somebodies rebodies rare cars?? Its either right or wrong. Black and white not grey.

The point is greed and money

We do care but his comment means no one would really focus on those cars versus a J code

[TUFCAT]

If the racecar started out as a 318 nobody would really care if it was rebodied.

Really!! So we only care if somebodies rebodies rare cars?? Its either right or wrong. Black and white not grey.

The point is greed and money

We do care but his comment means no one would really focus on those cars versus a J code

Exactly.