To Rewire, or Not to Rewire

[TexasStroker]

So...

I am looking for feedback on aftermarket wiring harnesses...First hand opinions are of course preferred.  Someone might sway me to stay stock and adapt, but we will see.  Here is the backstory and future plans...

I finally got some time in this past weekend and started pulling the interior apart.  I've had the console out for awhile and now the glove box door and liner, stereo, "custom, cough, radio plate," ac/heater controls, and restored instrument cluster are out.

This allowed me to remove the factory dash pad with the dash frame still in the car    I never saw it mentioned, but having those AC Controls out gives easy access to the center speed nuts.  Also fyi, my replacement dash pad's studs are a little shorter than the factory piece...should make the installation that much more "fun."

Anyway, as some may remember I pitched the aftermarket dash idea to Classic Dash and got the pieces in earlier this year.  Obviously, I am going aftermarket on the gauges.  My stereo is aftermarket, but if all goes well I'll be stepping up to a Double DIN.  Similarly, I would like to upgrade the factory headlights.  I have an electric fuel pump and the future likely holds electric fans, cutouts, MSD Ignition, and who knows what else with significant draw.

The wiring on the rear of the car is shockingly fine, no pun intended.  The wire is soft and flexible almost like it wasn't there 45 years.  Not much action would be planned there. 

The front harness hasn't really been assessed much, but it was upgraded to factory electronic ignition and 1 Wire Alternator.  The headlight wiring aged about on par for something 45 years old...a little dirty, a little dry, but nothing really broken off, or melted down that I have seen.

Under the dash is where things get interesting.  I've never understood how/why some people do what they do, but over the years there has been a lot of disconnecting, tapping, and splicing, but in the end it is about on par with what you would expect.  Nothing that really scares you away.  This weekend when I pulled the AC Controls I got the vacuum lines out of there and it cleaned things up a lot.  Aside from some totally disappointing "splicing" for the add-on gauges, things weren't as bad as I had thought they would be.  However, with the plan to go with aftermarket gauges etc, a lot of that would be redundant.  Similarly, I have no plans to add ac/heat.

Oh, and I should mention I hate glass fuses, haha.

I'm just curious as to how others have proceeded.  I know most would say, "Buy the M&H from YearOne, they are the best" and while I might agree with that if I was going 100% concourse, that is not the case.  I would basically be where I am at now, but with fresh wires. 

Any aftermarket harness I get will be treated to new sockets where applicable etc...Despite how I update my rides, I never like to cut up factory stuff.  Plus new+new in my book.

Just curious what route others have taken when they were in a similar position and what the latest opinions/review are on the aftermarket options.

I have been impressed with Ron Francis' customer support and know a few old street rod guys that use them exclusively.  I liked the looks of American Autowire's "Classic Update" and shot them an e-mail tonight to see if anything was planned for our cars.  Painless I always hear mixed reviews on...While I'm not a fan of any of the "gm" offerings, I am simply wanting what is best for the Charger with what I have planned.

Any insights and first hand feedback is appreciated...Thanks in advance!

[fy469rtse]

If it was my car and have done the same , wanted it to look factory even know car is modified, drive train etc,
But not a fan of hacking them so if someone wanted to return it to factory can be done ,
I would replace those forward harnesses, exposed to the elements , heat , oil , fuels , yes old replace ,
Then I would do the upgrades to charging system that you will find on here in electrical s , by pass amp gauge , install aftermarket amp gauge or volt gauge without having to run cars entire electrical supply through,
With these upgrades you can install higher output alternator for stereo system and such
Do lots of reading on here first ,to the why's and then you will follow along easily,
A lot of us upgrading headlights and retro fitting LEDs every where,
Nothing very wrong with factory wiring as long as you address a few points , attention to bulk head , amp gauge , and the routing of wiring for charging system , like I said do lots of reading on here and a plan will form !

[Dino]

When I upgraded my electrical I thought I would have to get all new wiring but the more I dug into it, the more I realized it was in really good shape.  I replaced several wires under the hood just because they were hard and brittle and I replaced the entire bulkhead connector, but most of my wires are stock.  I cleaned them up, removed the few splices I found and taped where needed.  If the wiring is healthy and you know how to clean it up, why buy new?

[Ghoste]

I am one of the ones who is a huge fan of the M&H stuff, I've used it in a couple of cars now and I'm a big fan.  When you say the stock wiring is pliable, although that is a good thing it's at the connectors where you have to be very careful.  I say replace it (especially that dash one) but when you get to the part where you begin adding all of those higher loads you will need to do some upgrades of course.  These can be added to the M&H harness.
If you go the route of a custom harness such as one from Painless you should be aware that it can sometimes hurt resale value.

[tan top]

 replace everything you can with new stuff , from M&H harnesses !!   then modify it or ad stuff or both. I have 

[BananaDan]

I replaced every inch of wiring on my car a few years ago and it was probably one of the best areas I spent my money.  All of the hard/brittle wiring is gone, as are the mysterious electrical gremlins I had.  40+ years is a long time on wires, not to account for whatever modifications, splices and backyard repairs previous owners might have done.  I got all of my harnesses from Bill Evans http://www.evanswiring.com/ except for the dash harness, which he doesn't do.  My dash harness is from Year One (M&H).  It is very good quality and if you wait for a 30% sale day you'll get a nice discount on it.  The only change I did was to modify the new dash harness for a modern Bosch headlight relay.  Otherwise, all of Evans and M&H harnesses are plug and play.

BD

[Mopar Nut]

I am one of the ones who is a huge fan of the M&H stuff, I've used it in a couple of cars now and I'm a big fan.  When you say the stock wiring is pliable, although that is a good thing it's at the connectors where you have to be very careful.  I say replace it (especially that dash one) but when you get to the part where you begin adding all of those higher loads you will need to do some upgrades of course.  These can be added to the M&H harness.
If you go the route of a custom harness such as one from Painless you should be aware that it can sometimes hurt resale value.

replace everything you can with new stuff , from M&H harnesses !!   then modify it or ad stuff or both. I have 

M&H harnesses and modify it.

[myk]

Replace the wiring, whether it's with OEM type stuff or aftermarket kits like Painless, Ron Francis or EZ wiring.  There is no logic in trying to keep ancient wiring around, with regards to safety and reliability...

[redmist]

I am going the Ron Francis route. I will be using the Access 24/7 Mopar system. I think that system will best support my aftermarket EFI ECU, Fans, stereo, and aftermarket gauges.

I am excited to do it this winter!

I also got an Aeromotive Phantom 340 fuel pump to go inside the stock tank. The new wiring will only enhance this upgrade.

Also planning on doing relay mod to headlights.

[TexasStroker]

Thanks for the feedback...I have been busy and out-of-town and haven't gotten to monitor the thread.

So does anyone have first hand experience with any of the aftermarket offerings?  My issue with going with M&H is that I would wind up modifying it just like I would the current set up and feel like an aftermarket set up actually designed for what I have planned would fit the bill better as I wouldn't be cutting up the top-of-the-line factory replacement.

I am not concerned with resale because I have no plans to sell the Charger.  My other concern is keeping things as clean as possible...I don't want loose connections/sockets/terminated wires and what not from factory replacement harnesses I won't be using.

The only real benefit to the M&H for my application is factory colors and the fact I would modify it and keep my factory harnesses in-tact.

Thanks again for any further insights.

[Ghoste]

I'd still go the M&H myself.  Everything fits, the connectors are right and the coloring is too.  (And no one ever plans to sell.  )

[TexasStroker]

I may still do that, just depends how it all pans out.  I can find very little first hand experience with aftermarket harnesses sadly.

[Rolling_Thunder]

I usually go with a painless harness and build exactly what i need from it and route is which ever way I need....      I have worked with most aftermarket harnesses and Painless is usually the route I go...     but anything can be used. Unless you are keeping your car 95% stock - I would go that route...     

[TexasStroker]

Ha, I think I was skimming a thread you started on the pro touring board from 2010.  The biggest issue I still find is that there just isn't a lot of feedback via first hand accounts outside of M&H.  You find a positive review of Painless/Ron Francis and then you find a horrible review.  The toughest part there is the unknown of how skilled the person was handling the work etc.

I would be keen on keeping the factory colors, but wiring just isn't all that difficult to me and I think I could make anything work.  I rewired the Duster late nights when I was still in college and that was all homebrew...that was almost 10 years ago and still zero issues.

My biggest deal is the price of the M&H when I will just wind up cutting it up.  If I was going full resto or all stock, it would no doubt be my pick and money well spent.

I know everyone raves on the dash harness, but I will have all aftermarket gauges and indicators...I will be maintaining the headlight switch, column, and ignition switch.  I am having a hard time wrapping my head around how going with the M&H and then having to obliterate it would allow me to make a clean, easy to work with harness as opposed to starting from scratch.

I would still like to upgrade to blade fuses, and am highly considering upgrading from the bulkhead connector.  While I've not had issues with it, a lot of the older guys I know locally have come to despise them from various projects over the years...I always prefer to learn from other's experience when possible, lol.

I'm hoping to have come up with something by Labor Day (mainly to take advantage of sales with whatever I pick).  Thanks for any continued input.

[Rolling_Thunder]

I did write a little thread over on Pro-Touring mopar about the pros and cons of wiring....           Granted some of that information is dated now but the principals are still the same. At the time - Ron Francis only had that huge bank style connectors that used a huge fuse panel and screw sets for the connections - I didn't like it. Also the dimensions made it difficult to mount....      today they have a better overall design I believe.

[TexasStroker]

Just curious on the M&H if all the connectors are truly there and if YearOne's "in stock" is to be trusted...

I've seen a lot of horror stories where people wait 3 months or so and do not want to drag this project out that long (at least because of parts, haha).

I don't have a catalog and their online picture leaves a lot to be desired.

I'm still hesitant about spending that kind of money for a factory harness just to modify the snot out of it.  May very well give it a go though...

[K9COP]

My opinion? Rewire for sure, but go with RebelWire (.com) I paid $230 for a Muscle car specific harness, which , I think at least, is at least as good as if not better than painless. (full disclosure- I've not read every single word in this thread up to this point..)

MAJOR DECIDING FACTOR? Tech support at Rebel is absolutely second to none. Guys who build harnesses are the tech support too. Knowledgeable, helpful , patient and happy to give one-to-one help and they keep going until all issues resolved. I simply cannot recommend them highly enough.

Speak to Bob or Jeremy, and tell them Paul with the '70 Charger sent you... They'll probably say something along the lines of 'Is that what that Englishman's name is? We never could understand him'. But they'll hook you up..

K9

[TexasStroker]

Haha, thanks K9.

Basically my issue is I will be putting so much aftermarket stuff in I am simply debating going with an aftermarket harness, OR modifying the top-of-the-line, factory specific M&H.  It is a tough call as part of me loves having the factory colors since I have the manual and diagrams (and don't like having gm color codes), but really question spending the money on something that end of factory replica and then proceeding to modify it for my needs.

If I go with RebelWire I will definitely let them know you sent them my way.

[K9COP]

I hear ya, and debated the same thing... I'm a master at that...

Anyways, my car is a bit of a mongrel, truth be told. '70 car with '69 front clip. That's a double edged sword (get the looks I want, some parts are tricky to order the correct year for) but I just kept careful notes of the colours used by Rebel (more work I know) and for the turn signal switches and ignition switches for example I just put new weatherproof connectors on them and photographed the before and after wire colours for them. Switches retained factory colours then 'plugged in' to Rebel colours.

Given the amount of aftermarket stuff you're installing, I'd question an 'original spec' harness, like M&H for instance. I don't know enough about them, but do they use original size/gauge wire? There's some pretty skinny stuff in that original harness....

Tough one to call, but I wanted my car to be nice and simple, preferably fire-proof, and wasn't worried about originality, as there wasn't much left original anyways. I wasn't really worried about what colour wire went from point to point, so long as I knew what they were, and Rebel prints the wires' purpose every 6" like Painless anyway.

Either way, the relief and peace of mind of having 40 day old wires, compared to 40 year old wires, is enormous. 

Let me know if I can help with anything...

K9