"Restored" vrs "Original" as a price Premium ?

[Challenger340]

Is original and UN-restored a "premium" to price ? or a detriment to you ? because of perceived work that will eventually have to be done ?
Assuming here,
still currently running excellent in great condition, and needing nothing.

This is NOT a WIW thread.... just canvassing peoples opinions on preference.


 

[Ghoste]

Its worth more to me.

[HeavyFuel]

 

I value originality, and would pay more for it.....all things being equal.


Don't even THINK about upgrading that sweet '69 you scored.  

[tan top]

yes , always buy the most untouched original car you can find ,   

[TUFCAT]

Originality trumps everything!  The way I see it...way to many hacks have been working on these cars over the years!  (Chrysler factory workers not withstanding)

[PlainfieldCharger]

Original un-restored is always the best. Questions, issues, are a sellers version of a car that is not a driver(survivor) and ALL the original needs replacing or barely there....

[hemi-hampton]

Alot of Restored cars are just perfume on a pig. A nice shiny paintjob hiding crappy non factory spotwelds, patches & more patches on top of patches. If you strip the paint from a solid rustfree original car & then from a bondo'd up Earl Scheibed pretty paint restored car you'd see how ugly that Restored car really is. LEON.

[tan top]

Originality trumps everything!  The way I see it...way to many hacks have been working on these cars over the years!  (Chrysler factory workers not withstanding)

 

Alot of Restored cars are just perfume on a pig. A nice shiny paintjob hiding crappy non factory spotwelds, patches & more patches on top of patches. If you strip the paint from a solid rustfree original car & then from a bondo'd up Earl Scheibed pretty paint restored car you'd see how ugly that Restored car really is. LEON.

yep      

 any good  body / paint guy would rather  restore / work on  an original unrestored car with  serious rust rot etc ( well I would )  , than one that has had say  hlpag special  ,  making things 10 times harder  , well not harder but ! time consuming  is the right word ! for the real body guy to sort it out . , ive seen some crap done to cars over the years , you would not believe it , they all looks ok under shiny paint in the dark 10 feet away , but once you start  they turn into a mess real quick ,     .

if your looking for a car to restore your self , find the most complete original unrestored / untouched , straight car you can ! will  save you weeks months of time & blood sweat & tears  

if you have deep pockets & your paying a pro to do the work , it don't matter to you , you will not see the body & paint guy go ! FFS who the hell done this shit       why they do this or that  
no offence meant to anyone 

[twodko]

What Tuffy said in spades!

[Back N Black]

I like original untouched car, but i would never own one because i like to put lots of miles on my charger and i would be paranoid to drive an original.

[hemi-hampton]

I like original untouched car, but i would never own one because i like to put lots of miles on my charger and i would be paranoid to drive an original.

Yeah, Me & Tuffy know the feeling of Driving a original & then having a mishap. LEON.

[Dino]

I like my cars to have absolutely zero pedigree so I can do what I want with it and not hear any bs about it.  But all things being equal, it's a fool who does not choose the original.  They're just better cars to start with regardless of your intentions with it. 

[green69rt]

I would appreciate having an "original or unrestored" car but really don't want one.  I want to drive my car and make it to suit me.   If I had more money then to have a garage full of originals would be great, if I can only have one then give me a driver!  I'll be happy to look at, and ride with, those of you that have "originals" so please invite me!!

[ws23rt]

A price premium for original?  I'd say yes but in order to not spoil that premium one must become the currant caretaker for that piece  of history.

Not many of us are that type of collector.

[TUFCAT]

Yeah, Me & Tuffy know the feeling of Driving a original & then having a mishap. LEON.

I talked to a couple this weekend who had a very nice 1964 Sport Fury. I asked where's the car?  They were rear-ended on I-75 coming home from a car show in Canada two weeks ago.  Man, I know the feeling...     My was minor in comparison.  Hagerty totaled theirs.  

[Lord Warlock]

The big question for me is, when does it change from original unrestored to a restored car? My car has all the original panels, original floor, new trunk floor, one rear fender has a patch panel welded in lower rear quarter, interior is all new legendary, except upper door panel bolsters, and plastic trim on dash, will have a new dash pad installed soon after its drivable again. (I did however keep the original door panels) bumpers are stock, entire front end is original,  but then I've stripped it to metal, primed and painted the entire exterior and engine bay.  There are many areas that are brought up to date, and made new again, but I still don't classify it as being restored, certainly not a nuts and bolts restore, nor a rotisserie restore. 

[BROCK]

Original is as born.  Not many can say they still have the original tires, sparkplugs,
hoses, belts, alternator, battery, mufflers, etc.  These are normal wear n tear items
that do get replaced on cars that are used for daily transportation.  You can keep
your car as 'original' with like replacement parts - but it isn't original. Best that can
be said is "factory correct" once failed parts get replaced.  Now some parts can be
rebuilt - like alternators & starters.  Then they are still the original parts - but how
many were exchanged?  I'd say most on account of needing the car back in service
in a timely manner.  I hunt for date coded parts for my car in the effort bring it back
to as close as possible to original as I can & lotsa people do!  Wanta do a Hot Rod? 
Start with a car that is missing too many original parts to go the resto route.  In a
nut shell:  Numbers matching engine & trans are the first steps to deciding if a car
Must be kept stock.  Now whether as a survivor or restoration depends on the rest
of the car & what condition you are faced with.  Numbers correct in either case will
make you a caretaker.  The rest get to do it their way!  I enjoy both sides of all this

[Stegs]

I like original untouched car, but i would never own one because i like to put lots of miles on my charger and i would be paranoid to drive an original.

me too...nice part about non numbers matching cars.....you can drive the crap out of them....(well atleast on sunny days lol)

[Challenger340]

Thanks for the opinions, seems the majority here feel it is a "premium" rather than a detriment, which is my opinion as well.

I wouldn't dream of touching mine other than normal maintenance and upkeep,
but that said....
I sure do like DRIVING the thing, which in itself will roll mileage on the odometer eventually ? and means at some future point anyways ? it may need more than just points, plugs and oil changes ?

Catch 22 with an un-restored original I guess ?
You get all the pleasure appreciating an "authentic" experience driving it.... but knowing full well you are using up a finite resource ?

[Dreamcar]

Like others have said. I would pay more for an unrestored original, but I'm not convinced that I would want to be the "caretaker" of one and not feel I can drive it wherever and whenever I want.

[Challenger340]

Like others have said. I would pay more for an unrestored original, but I'm not convinced that I would want to be the "caretaker" of one and not feel I can drive it wherever and whenever I want.

EXACTLY !!
"Caretaker" is one of the best descriptives of my thoughts as well, with many reservations to even driving it ?

[Old Moparz]

I like my cars to have absolutely zero pedigree so I can do what I want with it and not hear any bs about it.  But all things being equal, it's a fool who does not choose the original.  They're just better cars to start with regardless of your intentions with it. 

I pretty much agree with Dino with just one minor difference, I wouldn't care what anyone thinks or worry about the BS that's spewed. A mostly original car is definitely what I'd want to start with over a butchered one. I've had both types over the years & have learned from it the hard way. The only type of original car that I would try to avoid for a couple of reasons, would be a low mile, survivor in great shape. First, it would bother me to want to make improvements on something that remained in nice shape all those years, & second, it will likely be in a higher price range & not exactly the car I want.

I admire originality & correctly restored cars, but I don't want one. Driving it, racing it, changing things to my tastes (or lack of....lol) or even improving comfort & reliability is much more important to me.

[six-tee-nine]

Again the originality stuff.

What is wrong with a good quality restored car that is not a 100 points concours car?
I love true survivers but I'd be scared to change one bolt to them. So no I'll stick to my own car that will receive a restoration. I will not cut any corners but it will not be a factory spec restoration.

I'm almost starting to get scared to post pictures of a quarter patch now......

[fc7_plumcrazy]

I am another one of the survivor enthusiast group.
I would pay extra for an untouched car compared to a nicly restored one

Carsten

[hemi-hampton]

How does one know for sure if they got a nicely restored car or a poorly restored car if the both look the same. The differance will show in 10 years down the road when 1 is still nice & the other one has fallen apart. But how do you know which one is which now? Anybody got a answer? LEON.

[ws23rt]

How does one know for sure if they got a nicely restored car or a poorly restored car if the both look the same. The differance will show in 10 years down the road when 1 is still nice & the other one has fallen apart. But how do you know which one is which now? Anybody got a answer? LEON.

Wow that's a big question.  The short answer is if a poorly restored car looks the same as a nicely restored car than the poorly restored car is not so poor.
To ask about good or bad has to be referenced to something.  From a rust pile their are only degrees of better.

Sorta like hot and cold----there is no such thing as cold.  It's a matter of how much heat it there---more or less.

Of course the question is asking about hidden issues but if there is little or no visible problems on an overall close look than what may be hidden most likely is not a big deal.

[TUFCAT]

I'd say it boils down to having pictures of the car before and during the restoration process.  Talking to the restorer/owner would also be great.  But none of this means shit if the seller can't be trusted, or the shop has a horrible reputation.

I'd also like to have receipts for all this "supposed stuff" that went into the car that can't be seen upon visual inspection.  That's also where pictures come in handy.

[hemi-hampton]

Lets say you got 2 70 Chargers with 2 rusty 1/4's. On 1 you buy 2 NOS 1/4's at $5,000 a pop= $10,000 & on the other you just stick a old sock & some of that thin aluminum 2 way sticky tape (some of you know what i'm talking about here) & maybe some old newspaper & house aluminum siding in some other rust holes, you bondo it up. & when your done Joe Average can not tell the differance. People buy cars like these all the time not knowing the differance. LEON.

[TUFCAT]

That's called a "Han's Special".... We know all about those!

[hemi-hampton]

Lots of people have fell for the Hans Special & look at that other guy with the 200 page thread that fell for that DOH heap in Texas. Easy to do, easy to fool.

[ws23rt]

Lets say you got 2 70 Chargers with 2 rusty 1/4's. On 1 you buy 2 NOS 1/4's at $5,000 a pop= $10,000 & on the other you just stick a old sock & some of that thin aluminum 2 way sticky tape (some of you know what i'm talking about here) & maybe some old newspaper & house aluminum siding in some other rust holes, you bondo it up. & when your done Joe Average can not tell the differance. People buy cars like these all the time not knowing the differance. LEON.

This brings an interesting thought to mind which is the craftsmanship of the repair.   A butt welded patch that is hammered to shape and blended is as good as it can get.  Or is it?    What of a carbon fiber laminate blended to make the same patch?  The carbon fiber patch will out last the original metal.

Is it not true that the question is not how the restoration was done but how well was it done.

If the two way sticky tape/old newspaper/aluminum siding approach was done properly it could very well last as long as a carbon steel panel which was not a long lasting material to start with.  

I get your question---an informed buyer is better off.  If this kind of question should come up get a proper inspection before the deal is done.

[six-tee-nine]

Lets say you got 2 70 Chargers with 2 rusty 1/4's. On 1 you buy 2 NOS 1/4's at $5,000 a pop= $10,000 & on the other you just stick a old sock & some of that thin aluminum 2 way sticky tape (some of you know what i'm talking about here) & maybe some old newspaper & house aluminum siding in some other rust holes, you bondo it up. & when your done Joe Average can not tell the differance. People buy cars like these all the time not knowing the differance. LEON.

Well what I meant with not a factory restorarion is in between the 2 examples you gave.

My quartes are good except for the outer lower part where they meet the trunk extensions. Instead of replacing the whole quarter wich I know is the only 100% correct way to restore that part, I used the AMD lower patches. I have put them in place nicely, grinded the welds down carefully.
Of course this seam will need minimal filler.
Second, I used an old style 2 piece trunk floor That I got for free with the car. I could have trown that away and buy a complete new one piece floor because its the way they should be.....
So Maybe i'm not doing a restoration to the detail as it should, but I dont consider my restoration "poor"

[Dreamcar]

Lets say you got 2 70 Chargers with 2 rusty 1/4's. On 1 you buy 2 NOS 1/4's at $5,000 a pop= $10,000 & on the other you just stick a old sock & some of that thin aluminum 2 way sticky tape (some of you know what i'm talking about here) & maybe some old newspaper & house aluminum siding in some other rust holes, you bondo it up. & when your done Joe Average can not tell the differance. People buy cars like these all the time not knowing the differance. LEON.

Well what I meant with not a factory restorarion is in between the 2 examples you gave.

My quartes are good except for the outer lower part where they meet the trunk extensions. Instead of replacing the whole quarter wich I know is the only 100% correct way to restore that part, I used the AMD lower patches. I have put them in place nicely, grinded the welds down carefully.
Of course this seam will need minimal filler.
Second, I used an old style 2 piece trunk floor That I got for free with the car. I could have trown that away and buy a complete new one piece floor because its the way they should be.....
So Maybe i'm not doing a restoration to the detail as it should, but I dont consider my restoration "poor"

I agree. There are many ways to properly fix things. Some purists will find that patch, but more poeple want a well repaired Charger that drives nice vs people who want the concourse resto imo.

One thing about these cars I find is that they are somewhat simple to inspect if you ate willing to crawl on the ground and trunk and really look carefully.