What's a good ignition coil to put on my charger??

[69wannabe]

Drove the charger around a couple times today and when I turned it off on the second trip it dieseled a lil bit but I did not think anything about it since it does that occasionally until I tried to restart it an hour or two later. It just spun over but no start. I didn't really do alot of volt measuring just grabbed my test light and checked the resistor to make sure it hadn't died and it was good and voltage was good going to the coil so I had an extra orange box so I swapped that out real quick and that wasn't it. So grabbed my starter button so I could start it out under the hood and it wasn't firing from the coil. I have a box full of old coils and dug out an old accel yellow coil which I was sure was a good one and ust hooked it up pretty quick abd laid it in there and hit the gas to make sure it was pumping fuel since I haven't did that yet and it was spraying good at the accelerator pump and I hit the button and it fired up and ran so i'm assuming the coil flaked out on me. I had an MSD blaster 2 coil on there and was wondering what kinda coil is everyone running on there charger's. I don't mind to pay more for a good quality part as long as it's highly recommended!! Thanks Chad

[lukedukem]

This is what I use. I like it.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/pnx-45011

Luke

[69wannabe]

This is what I use. I like it.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/pnx-45011

Luke

I looked at that one earlier, looks like about the same spec's as the msd blaster 2 coil. I also looked at a firecore coil from mancini racing that looked good too.

[mhinders]

If you are looking for fat sparks...the coil with the lowest resistance that your ignition system can handle.
Low resistance means high current, high current coil charging means high energy discharge at the plugs.

[mopar2]

"lowest resistance that your ignition system can handle"
I don't understand what you mean, would you elaborate  more on "What your ignition system handle"?
I just ordered an ACCEL Points Eliminator Conversion Kits 2030 today. I had planned on using my MSD Blaster 2, with my Taylor ThunderVolt 8.2mm Spark Plug Wires.
Thanks Dierk

[mhinders]

Yes, your ignition system is designed to handle a maximum current without overheating or burning/melting the transistors. This maximum current value depends on the electronic components chosen during the design/development of your ignition system.

When you choose a coil with a lower resistance than recommended by the the manufacturer of your ignition system, the current in the system will exceed the value that your system is designed for, and the internals can melt.
So, to maximize your ignition system, choose a coil that takes the max current your ignition system is designed to handle safely (in other words, a coil that has the minimum resistance recommended).

Many times it's difficult to find the data that is needed to make a good choice. Some ignition system makers specify "minimum coil resistance". You should choose a coil with this resistance value, not a coil with bigger resistance value.
Often ignition system manufacturers may recommend a coil. Find the resistance value of this coil, and now you can pick and choose any other coil with the same resistance value. This works if one can assume that the recommended coil gives good/best performance with the ignition system.

A ballast resistor is stealing energy from the sparks. Look for systems with no ballast resistor, and lowest allowed coil resistance.

There is a 2:nd useful parameter in choosing the best coil...the inductance. Every coil has resistance and inductance. Lower inductance means faster current rise and more energy to the sparks. You can always look for the lowest inductance, it has no influence on the peak current, while resistance is influencing the peak current, as described above.

Hopefully I was able to provide some help in choosing the coil...but the subject is a lot more complex than one might think.  

[firefighter3931]

There is no best coil that fits all ignition systems....the best coil is the one that is properly matched to your ignition system. 

What does the ignition system consist of ? 


Ron

[mopar2]

 mhinders Thanks man 
Beings I ordered yesterday a ACCEL Points Eliminator Conversion Kit, This would be my weak point that I need to find maximum current without overheating? Choose a coil (check my MSD blaster 2) max current that matches. I did read in the instructions that ACCEL Points Eliminator Conversion Kit needs a ballast resistor, which I have. Making me think it may not be intended to handle a lot.

Ron
I was all MSD, it was messing up, so to verify it was the problem I got a stock point distributor to by pass the MSD. switching the points out with ACCEL Points Eliminator Conversion Kit. If it fixes the problem I'm going to drive it awhile. Then will more than likely get with you for a Firecore RTR.
Currently I have
ACCEL Points Eliminator Conversion Kit.
MSD blaster 2 Coil.
Taylor ThunderVolt 8.2mm Spark Plug Wires
embarrassed I forgot what plugs  But I do know they are the ones you recommend for iron headed 440 

69wannabe
Not meaning to hijack your thread Thanks as its helping me as well 

[firefighter3931]

Ron
I was all MSD, it was messing up, so to verify it was the problem I got a stock point distributor to by pass the MSD. switching the points out with ACCEL Points Eliminator Conversion Kit. If it fixes the problem I'm going to drive it awhile. Then will more than likely get with you for a Firecore RTR.
Currently I have
ACCEL Points Eliminator Conversion Kit.
MSD blaster 2 Coil.
Taylor ThunderVolt 8.2mm Spark Plug Wires
embarrassed I forgot what plugs  But I do know they are the ones you recommend for iron headed 440 

The aftermarket points conversion kits eliminate the ballist resistor correct ? The Firecore RTR does as well and the reason is a hotter spark with a constant 12V power feed. 

If you eliminated the ballist resistor and used the blaster II .....you burned the coil out. That coil is not designed for a constant 12V power feed. You can allways run a primary and secondary resistance test to verify the condition of the coil 

Blaster II coil :

primary resistance =  .7 ohms

secondary resistance = 4.7 Kohms



Ron

[mopar2]

The instructions for the ACCEL Points Eliminator, says a ballast resistor must be used, unless you use one of their 4 specified coils. Guess I should have gotten one, rather than trying to use the blaster2 I have.  Dang it, I was hoping to have finished up tomorrow.

I think I'm starting to see the light  please bear with me. Looking at the 4 coils recommended, and what you're saying.
The Accel point eliminator Can handle 12 V continuous. Not all coils (including my Blaster2) can. Therefor those coils need ballast resistors. I can still install and run tomorrow using my ballast resistor and blaster2. But to get full advantage of Accel point eliminator, I need a coil that can run all the time at 12V.

Getting a continuous 12V coil now, should work when I get a Firecore RTR?

[Nacho-RT74]

Chromed blaster 2 coil here. Got an used one long time ago, with some dents and working like a champ.

got a new Blaster 2 chomer unt one to keep as spare, couple of years later and dunno why its a bit bigger diameter ( maybe diff manufacturer ? ).

Revnator, Chromed ECU, Orange ECU, HiRev Ehrenbergs unit. Everyone responsed quite fine. Just FBO seemed to get its own coil working better.

of course every test while ECUs were working good LOL ( related to MP and FBO )

[mhinders]

Looking at the data provided for the Accel 8140C coil it says primary resistance = 1.4 Ohms. No ballast to be used.
Assuming a system voltage of 14 Volts this will give a current of 14V/1.4 Ohms = 10 Amps of current.
The 10 Amp is the likely safe maximum current for your Accel points conversion system.

Now, you can measure the primary resistance of your current coil, and you know you need a minimum of 1.4 Ohms including the ballast resistor. If the Blaster II is .7 Ohms, you know you need minimum .7 Ohms in the ballast resistor for a total of 1.4 Ohms. If you choose a ballast resistor bigger than 0.7 Ohms your ignition system performance will decrease.

Lets compare with the Pertronix Ignitor 3:
- no ballast used, the FlameThrower 3 coil is .32 Ohms.
The current will be 14V/.32 Ohm = 43 Amps! Compare that to the 10 Amps with the Accel 8140C coil.

The Pertronix system will discharge significantly fatter sparks to the plugs (assuming the electronics use all the current to charge the coil).

[mopar2]

Wow The Pertronix Ignitor 3 is a lot more fire power Beings I have the Accel on its way, I've checked and OReilly's has a recommended 8140 coil. I'm going to grab one on the way home. To finish determining that my old MSD was my problem And will be able to drive with this set up for a while.

Thanks for all the help

Wounder how the Firecore RTR's numbers look as to how much fire power it has  

Again  69wannabe sorry about hijacking your thread on best Coils. You motivated me to ask, hope the info helps you as well  

[firefighter3931]

Some good discussion regarding ignition systems. 

I can tell you that the FireCore RTR made more power on the dyno than an MSD 6al box. The testing was done by Keith Dunnick on his dyno. The combo was a 421 ci pump gas smallblock street build. Not a big difference but it was there. I find that impressive...a single fire ecu/distributor can outperform a high dollar multi fire ignition box. 

http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/techarticles/mopp_1212_testing_a_new_mopar_distributor/

If you're looking to clean up the engine bay of excessive wiring and external boxes it doesn't get any easier than the Firecore RTR ; only 3 wires to connect 



Ron

[flyinlow]

Some good discussion regarding ignition systems.  

I can tell you that the FireCore RTR made more power on the dyno than an MSD 6al box. The testing was done by Keith Dunnick on his dyno. The combo was a 421 ci pump gas smallblock street build. Not a big difference but it was there. I find that impressive...a single fire ecu/distributor can outperform a high dollar multi fire ignition box.  


Ron

Did it make more power above and below the multi spark range?       I agree good discussion.

My Son gave me a MSD 6425 last Xmas.  Works well so far. I do carry a old dist/coil/resistor/ ECU wired up with alligator clips for longer road trips.

[firefighter3931]

Some good discussion regarding ignition systems.  

I can tell you that the FireCore RTR made more power on the dyno than an MSD 6al box. The testing was done by Keith Dunnick on his dyno. The combo was a 421 ci pump gas smallblock street build. Not a big difference but it was there. I find that impressive...a single fire ecu/distributor can outperform a high dollar multi fire ignition box.  


Ron

Did it make more power above and below the multi spark range?       I agree good discussion.

My Son gave me a MSD 6425 last Xmas.  Works well so far. I do carry a old dist/coil/resistor/ ECU wired up with alligator clips for longer road trips.

Craig, if you open up the link there is a dyno sheet.....the pulls started at 3400 rpm so the mutispark was not a player in this comparison. 

The numbers look very close so basicly it's a tie or close to it for all intents & purposes. The article did state that the FireCore system had more repeatable numbers and consistency.


Ron

[lukedukem]

So Ron, if I have the PerTronix Flame-Thrower II Ignition Coil with ballast resistor in service and I get the firecore, I can get rid of the resistor? And does it come with instructions on how to wire it up? I also upgraded to 70's wiring. Meaning I now have the black voltage regulator and the orange box.

Luke

[69wannabe]

mhinders Thanks man 
Beings I ordered yesterday a ACCEL Points Eliminator Conversion Kit, This would be my weak point that I need to find maximum current without overheating? Choose a coil (check my MSD blaster 2) max current that matches. I did read in the instructions that ACCEL Points Eliminator Conversion Kit needs a ballast resistor, which I have. Making me think it may not be intended to handle a lot.

Ron
I was all MSD, it was messing up, so to verify it was the problem I got a stock point distributor to by pass the MSD. switching the points out with ACCEL Points Eliminator Conversion Kit. If it fixes the problem I'm going to drive it awhile. Then will more than likely get with you for a Firecore RTR.
Currently I have
ACCEL Points Eliminator Conversion Kit.
MSD blaster 2 Coil.
Taylor ThunderVolt 8.2mm Spark Plug Wires
embarrassed I forgot what plugs  But I do know they are the ones you recommend for iron headed 440 

69wannabe
Not meaning to hijack your thread Thanks as its helping me as well 

No problem!!! I am learning as well!! I plan on doing the firecore RTR dizzy and coil when I can afford it but right now just need to put me a good coil back on there and get it back up and going. It's running now but no telling how old that accel coil is and how long it may or may not last. My set up is the basic mopar conversion kit with a chrome box and msd street fire wires with champion plugs that I plan on changing to the NGK XR-5's soon and was running the msd blaster 2 coil which has been on there since 07 or 08 I think.

[firefighter3931]

So Ron, if I have the PerTronix Flame-Thrower II Ignition Coil with ballast resistor in service and I get the firecore, I can get rid of the resistor? And does it come with instructions on how to wire it up? I also upgraded to 70's wiring. Meaning I now have the black voltage regulator and the orange box.

Luke

Luke, the Firecore HP canister coil can be run without a ballist resistor when using the Firecore RTR distributor. That coil is heavy duty and will not burn up with a constant 12V power supply.

If you want to use the FireCore coil with the MP ECU you can do so by installing an MSD .8 ohm ballist resistor. The MP ECU boxes will overheat, burn up and melt without the resistor. The Ballist is needed to protect the ECU in this instance....not the coil 


Ron

[firefighter3931]

My set up is the basic mopar conversion kit with a chrome box and msd street fire wires with champion plugs that I plan on changing to the NGK XR-5's soon and was running the msd blaster 2 coil which has been on there since 07 or 08 I think.

Chad, same deal for you as posted above ; Firecore HP coil with the .8 ohm MSD ballist resistor to protect the MP ECU box.


Ron