Whats it worth? AACA Senior Award winner plus other awards

[Challenger340]

After much time and research on my own, they are still only worth what someone is willing to pay, at a given time and place ?

[Mytur Binsdirti]

six-tee-nine,


I do know that Hagerty had put a price value on it at $65K which is what the agreed value it is insured for so they must think it is worth that. However, I know that prices fluctuate like the housing market and such so again, I am at a loss for what that actual value of the car would be.

I feel that 65-70 large for a numbers matching Charger R/T is top dollar and being that it is a 383 car, I would say that the value is considerably less. No knock on the car whatsoever because it is absolutely stunning. But if you have any inkling of selling it and you have an interested party who is willing to pay the appraised value or higher I say don't let that man get away!

[Ghoste]

I wouldn't necessarily take an insurance value as a very accurate appraisal in any case.  If you are willing to pay their premium they'll pretty much insure a car for any amount you want.

[TUFCAT]

Hagerty had put a price value on it at $65K which is what the agreed value it is insured for so they must think it is worth that.

Like Ghoste said, Hagerty doesn't put a "value" on a car....you do.

They have certain guidelines for what a car is worth. The range runs up and down depending on condition.  Basically you and Hagerty have an "agreed upon value".... you pay them enough money, they insure your car for the amount you want.

Hagerty has NO idea of anything more than the overall condition of your car.  You obviously sent them all of your photos. Maybe they also have an appraisal on file from someone who said your car is worth $65k.  

Appraisals are nothing more than opinions anyway.  Some appraisals are more highly regarded than others.  Its very likely you could get three appraisals and they would have much different valuations.

Comparing real-life value and "Hagerty Insured Value" is like comparing apples to apples, virgins to sluts, or hags to babes...I think you got the idea.  

[moparnation74]

Insured value is replacement value not actual value.  The more insured value the more your premium will be.  Insurance companies bank on the fact to collect premiums and a total loss is unlikely to occur. The auction route is a slippery slope unless there is rarity/special history or a reserve placed.

[Troy]

Tuffy's just bitter because he doesn't even own a Charger.

I have an opposite story along these lines. A guy I know built a street rod with/for his son. He called in every favor he could to make the ultimate ride. At the first show some guy asked the son if it was for sale and the son threw out what he thought was a ridiculous number. Guy handed him a big bag full of cash. Let's just say the car was easily worth 4-5 times what the guy paid and the dad was furious. So, it helps to have a realistic idea of what other people think your car is worth - not just the number floating in your head!

I can't sell any of my cars for a profit. Can I sell them for more than I paid? Yeah. But that assumes my time is worth zero. Brian has spent more time detailing his car than I've spent restoring one...

To the right buyer, a shiny, well-sorted car is worth a lot more than a "correct" restoration. I can think of several examples of non-factory cars that have sold for what I'd consider "stupid money". Heck, I've seen ratty GLs sell for close to what I estimated this car at. What I was alluding to earlier is that this sort of buyer is probably looking for an "ideal" - generally 440 or Hemi 4-speed in a desirable color combo - and likely doesn't care at all about factory correctness. So Brian's car is an unknown: people who are willing to pay big bucks for factory stock will be turned off by the color and non-original motor while others will be turned off by the 383 and aren't willing to pay anything for the factory details.

Bottom line, I don't sell anything that doesn't get me something I want more. I wouldn't sell this car unless I knew it would net enough cash to restore the next one to whatever level I wanted. Since we all know that restorations are (mostly) a losing proposition then the real selling price of this car would need to be well above average. From a buyer's standpoint, this is why I lean heavily toward finished cars instead of projects - pennies on the dollar for what a restoration actually costs. I wouldn't fault Brian (or anyone else) for asking for the moon in order to sell. If it doesn't sell then who cares? He's got a car that a lot of people here would love to own!

Troy

[TUFCAT]

Tuffy's just bitter because he doesn't even own a Charger.

You may be onto something there brother!  

To the right buyer, a shiny, well-sorted car is worth a lot more than a "correct" restoration. I can think of several examples of non-factory cars that have sold for what I'd consider "stupid money".

The problem is actually finding a buyer willing to spend "stupid money".....that type of buyer isn't easy to come by these days.  So if Brian found one, he should strongly consider selling his car.     I wonder if the potential buyer is reading this?

[Cncguy]

I think you may get 35-40k money invested in these is usually money lost. Unless we have another classic car boom. The prices for these cars have actually been on the decline probably due to AMD.

[resq302]

If he is reading this, so what!  The more informed he will be.  I'd had to be accused of taking someone for a ride because they were ill informed.  Again, some people are willing to pay more for a highly detailed car that has a correct year color and set up while they might not have wanted the original F8 green.  Perfect example is clones that get sold at auctions.  A friend of mine told me some cars have gone for more money than what the actual real car is worth.  Such as a cloned hemi cuda convertible.  Again, it all depends on what the person wants to spend.  I was just looking for a realistic number so I did not sell my car for less than what it is actually worth.  

[Mytur Binsdirti]

He's got a car that a lot of people here would love to own!

Such an enviable position to be in.

[Dino]

I just got hit with a very serious offer of $30K for my car.  Not bad for a driver condition clone with a worn green interior.   
There was something about the car that spoke to him, just as it did to me.  I never paid anything close to that though.

No it's not going anywhere.   

[Aero426]

 I wonder if the potential buyer is reading this?

That was my first thought yesterday.   Putting this out in a public forum just gives your hand away.    Most experienced folks in the hobby have a few phone numbers to call in private for an opinion.   On the other hand, it does do a good job of advertising your car, especially with the "award winning" thread title.      

[HeavyFuel]

A guy says 'what will to take to buy it?' ; keep in mind owner likes the car, didn't advertise the car and really didn't plan on selling it. What do you add when you really haven't thought about it?

Many good points by all.   

If put on the spot to give a $$ number of what it takes to buy my car, (and my car is definately NOT on the market) I'm gonna throw out a crazy number....because its not for sale, and not because I think that's what it's worth.

[gtx6970]

Ok, to clarify my earlier statment.
IF the prospective buyer didn't laugh in your face at $80K that tells me he feels your in the ballpark ( at least in HIS mind anyway )

Do I personally thinks it's worth anything close to 80K ? simply stated,,No.
There for way I said anything over 45K grab it and go. Can you replace it for that ? no idea and IMO is ir-rellevant.

I think in a open sales market the color change and numbers status will hurt it for top dollar.
To MOST buyers,,
BUT,  there are people where the color change is actually a good thing compared to what it was originally ( I 'm not one of them )
The color change just makes it more desirable, to some.

Does the AACA even look at the fender tag codes ?

[gtx6970]

If it's not for sale,,then  price it at a point where you will not be sad to see it drive away by someone else.

That said several years back a good friend of mine had a guy come up to him and ask if his 1969 Dart GTS 383 was for sale . He politly told him no.
Guy asked  out of curiousty, what did he think it was worth. Owner told him $25K,, guy asked if he would take that for it? Told him no.
So guy asked, what would it take ?
He told him $35K , guy didn't flinch and said he would take it. Needless to say he sold it.

[resq302]

Bill,

AACA does not look at the fender tag to my knowledge as they (at least at the Hershey, PA Fall show and swap meet) have typically over 3000 cars to judge.  They try to put people who know certain years, makes, or models, in those classes to judge those cars since they know them.  However, with a volunteer judging staff, you don't always have people who know the specific details about cars which is why you need factory documentation as the burden of proof is on the owner.  That is the main reason why I was documenting everything with the GTX during the restoration.  What better factory proof than what was originally done to the car.  Most people do not have this luxury.

Back to my charger.... if the potential buyer is a member of this forum.  Oh well.... so be it.  If he wants the car bad enough, he will pay what I want for it.  If not, I get to keep my car which needs nothing done to it.

You are also 100% right that while F8 green does not appeal to most, some people might want it the original born with color.  Other people who I have talked to at shows said the guy who painted the car before me did the car justice with changing the color to a nicer color.  Again, all personal preference.  Is this a numbers matching, all correct date coded part car like my Dad's GTX?  No.   But, it is one super clean, super straight car that has all of the correct parts for that year which the car could have come with.  The VIN does break down to it being an original factory 383 HP 4 bbl car with factory 4 spd.  The original fender tag shows that this car was a factory console 4 spd car with factory power disc brakes and a factory tic toc tach.  Again, all desirable things.  Pretty much this is the best car that you could have gotten without going for an R/T package.

The whole point of me saying the $80K price tag was to see if he was serious.  The fact that he came back to me twice shows that he certainly is interested but not at the $80K price which I can understand.  I guess I will have to toy around with what a realistic number would be for me to let it go and then call the guy up.  I am very fortunate to not have to sell the car but like I've said, if someone wants to give me a price where I could buy another one and have money left over, then I might go for it.

[Mytur Binsdirti]

  The fact that he came back to me twice shows that he certainly is interested but not at the $80K price which I can understand.  

You got him hooked, now reel him in.

[gtx6970]

Brian,
I was curious about AACA judging. Thanks.

It's  darn nice car and I would certainly park it in my garage without question.
Just make certain if he comes back with a number you can both agree on , make sure you can live with it once it drives away.

[TUFCAT]

The whole point of me saying the $80K price tag was to see if he was serious.  The fact that he came back to me twice shows that he certainly is interested but not at the $80K price which I can understand.  I guess I will have to toy around with what a realistic number would be for me to let it go and then call the guy up.

Well, I'll buy that explanation ....sounds fair to me.  I think you know what the car's worth to you, and on the open market.

I'm also glad you said what you said about he AACA.  I'm sure they mean well (I'm not a hater of the AACA by any means)...but their distinction has become watered down over the years and they don't have a high enough level of certification/status to attract purists like they once did.  Which is really unfortunate because they had a good thing going on....but the model T crowd is drying up (...okay, that last part was a joke fellas!)  

[resq302]

Its funny, I used to think the AACA when I first joined in 2005 was the most elite group and national judging that could go on.  Granted, while it is a tough judging set up (400 point system) I have found that it is corrupted just like any other national judging organization.  A friend of mine who is in a couple of the same clubs as me told me when he was judging a car at one of the national events, the team Captain made special mention about the car they were judging was so and so's car.  After my friend had judged the car, the Captain looked at the score and said it needed to be changed.  At which point my friend told him that is what he marked down and if he didn't like it that he would need to go back and rejudge all of the other cars they did before hand "differently"  or he (the team Captain) could go back and rejudge all the cars himself. 

Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to completely bash the AACA judging as I have learned a LOT of information from the national judges as a lot of them have a ton of knowledge in the area of cars they are judging.  A lot of them DO know the smaller, finer details which you will get deducted points on if you happen to have them judge your car.  The problem lies with newer people who are judging that do not have the wealth of information a lot of us on here have or the fact that they have a lack of judges (which seems to be more and more prevalent at shows) to help out.  Lets face it, I was asked to judge the Plymouth E body stock class at E-town this past weekend cause they needed help as they were short on judges.  Do I know everything about E bodies?  No.  Do I have a lot of knowledge about them since I restored my Mom's 70 Chally vert?  Yes.  So I was more than glad to help out.  However, with that done, I now ended up missing the swap meet, didn't have the time to make up the snow cones that I usually do for friends and fellow club members ( I know this was the biggest downfall!) or walk around and check out all of the other cars.

Bottom line is that AACA judging is as "how the car could have been delivered to the showroom".  Meaning you can't have perfect paint and should either have a couple of runs or orange peel.  Too perfect of a paint job will get you deductions as thats not how the factory made them.  They check for correct tires.  If your car came with bias ply tires, then you better have bias ply tires on there.  If radials were an option, then you better have paperwork backing that up.  I know a guy who had an A12 Roadrunner next to me who had the original spare tire and I want to say it was a G70-15 or something like that but the tire is no longer made.  AACA realizes that stuff like that does happen now and allows you  to go up or down one tire size, whatever is available and closest to original, however, you need documentation showing that is the case.  The guy who was next to me I think lost up to 10 points for each of the 4 tires since it did not match the original size and did not have any documentation.  Full painted body color undercarriages.   Nope, you'll lose points.  Reproduction parts are accepted as long as they look just like the originals do.  Again, engine size, body color, interior color, as long as it was optional that year, it is acceptable since thats how the car could have been made.  Now if you have a Hemi in a 74 Challenger, you'd lose major points since hemis were not available then.  Hell when we were at the Grand Nationals (next level up from National Senior award) with Dad's el camino, we had to provide proof that the tonneau cover was an optional accessory from GM which we had proof of.  As it was, we ended up losing a point because when Dad put the seat belts back in, the driver side female buckle he had under or over the male short buckle on the trans tunnel so the belts were twisted.  So it all depends on who judges your car.  Just like any show for the most part.

[myk]

If he is reading this, so what!  The more informed he will be.  I'd had to be accused of taking someone for a ride because they were ill informed.  Again, some people are willing to pay more for a highly detailed car that has a correct year color and set up while they might not have wanted the original F8 green.  Perfect example is clones that get sold at auctions.  A friend of mine told me some cars have gone for more money than what the actual real car is worth.  Such as a cloned hemi cuda convertible.  Again, it all depends on what the person wants to spend.  I was just looking for a realistic number so I did not sell my car for less than what it is actually worth.  

Caveat emptor, buyer beware.  It's the buyer's responsibility to make sure they are making an intelligent, informed decision to purchase something.  If you told a buyer that the car had a million horsepower, was a low-emissions vehicle and ran on unicorn farts and they believed you, the fault lies with the buyer, not you.  Again, let the buyers decide what the actual "worth" is by forking over money or walking away-it's that easy...

[moparnation74]

Values? Point system shows? I am Mopar by blood, not by points or feeling better because an insurance company attaches a high value to it.   It is a hobby, enjoy it, you cannot take these cars with you to the grave. 

[TUFCAT]

....low-emissions vehicle and ran on unicorn farts

[Back N Black]

 

[Dreamcar]

If I was in the market for a factory perfect restored car (i.e. #1 condition), I would look up the value in multiple collector car guides, make an average, and not offer more than that.What others are actually selling them for is not necessarily an accurate reflection of the value. If a seller wants more, than I know he's probably got more in the car than what it's worth, or he's really trying to make a buck.

I'm restoring a car now, but I now that down the line, I will not be able to sell it for what I put into it. It's just the nature of the beast.