Whats it worth? AACA Senior Award winner plus other awards

[bakerhillpins]

Guys,

There is some confusion out there. The OP didn't say it was a 3x green car and didn't mention any paperwork...


I asked if it was a green car!  My recollection of discussions with the OP is that the car is not the original color.   I then asked about the broadcast sheet. So lets wait for Brian to answer those questions. 

[resq302]

Bryan,

The car, which has the original fender tag, was originally an F8 green car with a green vinyl top, and a tan interior.  There is a build sheet out there for this car but I just have to track down the owner again.  (organization is a good thing, it helps prevent losing important phone numbers!    )

So you honestly think my charger is worth every penny of $80K?  

Stop bragging and wake up from your dream....for $80,000 someone can buy a Charger 500!    You have an extremely nicely detailed car.  However, those freshly restored OEM "factory details" do not equate into $20K, $30K, or even $40K over the price of a similarly restored car.

With no buildsheet, a color change, and Non matching numbers engine - $35K TOPS!  I don't care how many correct ECS decals, RPM paste, and paint daubs you've slathered all over it.

For me personally, I find these "what's my car worth" threads an arrogant way to promote a car online.   Why would you come on here and ask us what "we think" its worth when you already know?  You are VERY active in the hobby and watch this sort of thing closely. "What's it worth" threads are basically for people who wake up from living under a rock for years and truly have no idea of an items value, not attention seeking guys like you.  Sorry but remember....you asked.  

By the way, factory installed white vinyl tops were never "pearl" white.

If you were serious about selling the car it would already be sold....save the glory until you actually sell it.

TRANSLATION: Expect to lose money on a restoration. When you go to the "next level" like you have - don't expect to recoup all of your investment.  You spent this money to satisfy yourself and collect plastic trophies.  This is a HOBBY and it costs money to run with the big dogs.  

I never expected to make money on this car although I did purchase it in 2000 for $9,000 and maybe have another $20-25K into it.  By no way means, shape, or form am I "bragging" about the price I threw out to the guy.  I don't follow the auctions nor do I care what the current values are for collector cars.  I am active in restoring, not buying and selling cars.  I am not a flipper!  What I DO care about is getting a fair price for the car should I decide to sell it.  If someone offered you $70K for your car and agreed to that price, wouldn't you sell it?  Hell, we were given $42,500 for our 70 El Camino SS 396 that we traded away to get the 69 GTX vert.  We jumped at the deal.  Whoever doesn't take an offer of more than what the car is worth is a fool.  Period!

As for the trophies, my daughter cares about them more than I do anymore.  My car is the trophy!  Should I sell this one, there are more out there to own and keep me occupied.  To me, trophies (unless they are cool ones like Bill Mann got for the 70 Charger from Mopar) just collect dust.  The real reward is getting the knowledge from working on the car and passing it on to others to help someone else out.  Again, I am not out "seeking attention" like you claim.  I am only out to get a real world value of my car.  Nothing more, nothing less.

And, yes, I am serious about selling my car IF I get the right price.  Do I have to sell it?  No.  But I'll be darned if I am going to let an opportunity pass me by.  I am in no way trying to promote my car as I am not actively selling it, but like I said, if someone comes around with a number I like, I'll jump at the chance.

Speaking of opportunities, Tom, have you ever gotten your car repaired from when it was rear ended?

[TUFCAT]

As for the trophies, my daughter cares about them more than I do anymore.  My car is the trophy!  

Awesome! Now that's exactly as it should be... and I agree with you 100%!    

Speaking of opportunities, Tom, have you ever gotten your car repaired from when it was rear ended?

Yep....Coronet had some surgery over the past few weeks. Some might know, but its been kept it on the down-low as plans could change with motivation.    
 

[bill440rt]

As for the trophies, my daughter cares about them more than I do anymore.  My car is the trophy!  Should I sell this one, there are more out there to own and keep me occupied.  To me, trophies (unless they are cool ones like Bill Mann got for the 70 Charger from Mopar) just collect dust.  The real reward is getting the knowledge from working on the car and passing it on to others to help someone else out.  Again, I am not out "seeking attention" like you claim.  I am only out to get a real world value of my car.  Nothing more, nothing less.

Hey now, why am I getting thrown under the bus? 

[bakerhillpins]

Hey now, why am I getting thrown under the bus? 

Last I checked you are starting to look pretty darn good under there.     Maybe get some curtains to help spruce the place up?

[resq302]

As for the trophies, my daughter cares about them more than I do anymore.  My car is the trophy!  Should I sell this one, there are more out there to own and keep me occupied.  To me, trophies (unless they are cool ones like Bill Mann got for the 70 Charger from Mopar) just collect dust.  The real reward is getting the knowledge from working on the car and passing it on to others to help someone else out.  Again, I am not out "seeking attention" like you claim.  I am only out to get a real world value of my car.  Nothing more, nothing less.

Hey now, why am I getting thrown under the bus? 

A cool trophy like the one you have, Bill, I doubt would be considered being thrown under the bus!       More like 

[Ghoste]

Agreed!

[bill440rt]

Hey now, why am I getting thrown under the bus? 

Last I checked you are starting to look pretty darn good under there.     Maybe get some curtains to help spruce the place up?

I was thinking something along the lines of neutral earth tones. 

[gtx6970]

my 

Not an RT, Not the #'s block and a major color change kills it for MOST.

I am NOT knocking the quality if the car in any way . simply stating facts .

He balked at 80K, tell him to make you an offer and see what he comes back with.
IMO, if you can get anything north of 40-45K , you better take it

[TUFCAT]

if you can get anything north of 40-45K , you better take it

I never expected to make money on this car although I did purchase it in 2000 for $9,000 and maybe have another $20-25K into it.

Bill, he said he bought it for $9K in 2000 and put another $20-25K into it.  Anything North of $35K is gravy...

[TUFCAT]

duplicate post.  sorry

[69 OUR/TEA]

I thought to get awards from AACA,Concourse D'Elegance,etc they have to be real cars ? I mean ,  to at least appear as they were built ?To me, Resq302 car is a clone now , not so much the non numbers matching thing , but a major color change ? Yeah great it is cool , a 383 4 speed car , but complete color change body/top/and interior , whats the difference if it was a 318 auto orig and now is a 383 4 speed ?
So if I restored a 318 car to full blown concourse  Hemi Charger R/T , I should be able to enter it in a AACA , concourse show ?
Just me , but a car being entered to be judged as such , better be " as built " !

[resq302]

AACA has to be as the car could have been made.  As in the paint has to be an optional color for that year such as the R4 Red paint and White vinyl top and black and white interior.  Concours I think is just the quality of the work done and not necessarily the numbers matching OE game.

Yes, if you decided to do the hemi swap out, that is acceptable as long as you have all of the other hemi stuff to go with it such as torque boxes, suspension, correct rear, etc.

[TUFCAT]

AACA has to be as the car could have been made.  As in the paint has to be an optional color for that year such as the R4 Red paint and White vinyl top and black and white interior.  Concours I think is just the quality of the work done and not necessarily the numbers matching OE game.

Yes, if you decided to do the hemi swap out, that is acceptable as long as you have all of the other hemi stuff to go with it such as torque boxes, suspension, correct rear, etc.

AACA sounds to me like a glorified people's choice award...just with slightly more knowledgeable voters.

So,....similar to most small regional shows it could be possible to win a first place AACA award if your vehicle has the same appearance as "could have been" manufactured, the overall condition of the vehicle "appears acceptable" to judges, and the exterior, interior, engine, and body components appear "period correct" to a non-manufacturer specific judge.

I don't/won't hang my hat on any score an AACA judge gives a vehicle.  To me the award value is intrinsic to the owner, and not worth much outside of the club...

I spent some of the AACA website and there's a long list of different classes and different competition levels... some of which actually require DOCUMENTATION. Apparently this is reserved only for participants who want to compete for National Recognition....otherwise you won't be competing with vehicles in a specific marque "OE type" certification.

EDIT: Non "OE" shows are great and I love them.  They fill a niche for owners who enjoy driving their cars.  I also appreciate and enjoy highly competitive shows for the rare and ultra high quality of cars they attract...but these are two different kind of animals.  For this reason don't expect the big dogs to run with the AACA crowd and mingle with the mix-breed stuff.  

[ws23rt]

I appreciate TCs blunt approach.  It takes many sentences to say the same thing and seem more pleasant.

It has been said over and over --this is a hobby and those that try to make it a business don't do well.

Take customs hot rods for example. Thousands of dollars go into something that is unique to the vision of the builder and their pay off is the completion of their vision.  It is eye candy to the rest of us but a pay back is not what makes them a success.  It's mechanical art.  How much is a painting worth and why?

My motorcycle project is a good example of this. It's to complete a vision I had in the late sixties. To be as far along as I am is success. Solving problems and fabricating stuff is the fun part.

The collector side of this hobby (for the preservation of the rare) tends to get mixed up with the bulk of us that just like the cars and want to own and drive them.

Edit add---Dodge made a work of art with the charger.  Restored chargers are like cleaned paintings sometimes it's worth more.   Copys of the original seldom bring big money.

[1974dodgecharger]

should we all start a thread with our cars with, 'WIW, I don't know?"

[ws23rt]

I first came to this forum looking for information about the value of my C500.

I was asking too much and since gained an increased appreciation for it.  I still don't know what it's worth cause I still have it.
The day and time I sell it is when I will know what it's worth but that info will only apply to me and the buyer at that time.

[1965gp]

Looking at this from a few angles and making some considerations-

First when I said 80k I was assuming it was a correct #'s matching car so the value would go down some from not being the original color. That being said a factory green car painted red will probably bring more $$ than a factory green car painted green just because it is more desirable to more people.

There is a lot of knowledge and experience on this board ... That not everyone has. I am relatively new to the Charger game (now if you want a GTO that a different story!) and let me tell you what I found just from searching eBay, Craigslist, etc.. $30-35k gets you a shiny driver that has mechanical issues. Gauges that don't work, non-correct replacement parts from the local auto parts store and a so-so interior. Probably hidden rust as well. Could You find a better deal on here? Probably but chances are it wouldn't have been a 30 minute drive where I could inspect it myself before buying.

So let's take that $30-35k car and figure not doing any of the work yourself you are going to go from $35k to $45k pretty quick- hell the interior is 3k in materials alone. Chasing down wiring, cleaning up any shoddy work that was done before- things like that. If you have rust to deal with that is a completely different conversation.

So we are at a reasonably possible $45k and everything works on the car. Now let's track down all of the correct parts, paint them the correct finish and replace the aftermarket parts. Let's detail the undercarriage enough to where the car will be respected by Mopar people (which are very detailed) and not just passers by at a cruise. Remember, you aren't doing any of this yourself so you are paying a shop to do it. Is it fair to say the correct parts and labor are going to cost $10k? Remember we are talking correct radiator (not one ordered from summit), correct carb (not a street avenger 750) and so on and so on - parts and installation could easily run 10k

So the car is up to $55k to $60k to get it where it is if there is absolutely no rust to deal with. Owner hasn't made any money on it yet just has a very nice car to enjoy.

A guy says 'what will to take to buy it?' ; keep in mind owner likes the car, didn't advertise the car and really didn't plan on selling it. What do you add when you really haven't thought about it? Let's say 20% over what he has in it. That's another $11-12k. Owner says '70k and we can talk.'

To say the owner should jump at anything over $35k just doesn't make sense. True- on this forum it may not pull north of $50k but to the general public I would not be surprised at all. If you were paying a shop to do all of this I don't see how you could replicate this car for less than $50k. When you work on your car yourself you forget that there are people spending $$ for very simple work.

OP- I guess the question I would ask is what is it going to cost you to replace this car with one you like as much or more?

[TUFCAT]

1965gp you articulate your points well, and I agree with you -  the cost to restore these cars (the correct way) can be staggering.  This is probably why 95% of the people in our hobby (who've been through what you described) would advise others to buy cars already done!  

Unless the car in question was ultra rare and bought cheap, most of us shouldn't expect to make money after a restoration.  Merely "breaking even" is almost impossible - even when the majority of work is done at home.  

I also believe the "average enthusiast" doesn't fully understand the cost of a true "high-quality restoration"....and unfortunately, they end up cutting corners as you described.  Even if the restoration starts out with the best of intentions, its usually the next owner who gets stuck holding the bag when they sell.  Others are just unwilling (or don't care to) to shell out the money required to do a car to "the next level" and the restoration suffers.  

Thankfully, love of the automobile and sentimental ties trumps common sense judgment and we continue to drool on many ultra rare, highly desirable, lavishly restored rolling works of art at places like MCACN.  

Bottom line: Its a hobby!   You don't go into this with the idea your car will become your next egg, or an investment per see.  But I will says this....its a lot smarter than taking up the game golf.   Have you ever tried selling a golf game after you were done with it?  

 

[1965gp]

I'm in sales and have yet to play a round of golf in my life and that is why!

I'm in that group that doesn't want/doesn't need/can't afford a high end restoration. Most of my cars are what I would call nice drivers and I enjoy the hell out of them. Found a new ding on the Bandit TA today and while it pissed me off wasn't the end of the world. I would rather have 10 $20,000 cars than 1 $200,000 car.

I don't expect to make $$ unless I get a deal on the initial purchase price. In reality I just want my time and enjoyment paid for.

None of this really matters cause I don't really sell them; I get too emotionally attached.

I'm glad you were able to understand what I was trying to say- I knew what I what I was trying to say but confused myself writing it....

[six-tee-nine]

What i see alot in this thread is the fact that so many people make a big deal of a color change....

when other members ask opinions on a color change when they start a restoration everybody say you need to do what you like best since it's your car after all.
On the other hand alot of people dont seem to want a nice restored car that underwent a color change. as long as you mess with a 318 car its ok, but when you dare to touch an R/T.....
I get the fact that the OP's car was redone in a factory available color, but not the color it rolled out the factory with and that "could" affect value because the fender tag is not matching the color.
however I think (maybe along with several others out here) that the color combination the car carries at this point is a much more desirable than the original one.

About being greedy : think about it, when someone comes to your doorstep and makes you a crazy offer wich is more than the car is worth or you have in it, will you tell him he's offering too much?
So Brian, if you want to sell tell the guy to make an offer, and go from there. but i think its important to tell the difference between realistic market value and personal/sentimental value.

Also these days I guess when you can sell a restored car for the money you have in it you are already doing a good job.

[1974dodgecharger]

I guess I read wrong. I thought he said someone offered him 80k for his.....

[resq302]

six-tee-nine,

Very well said and thank you!

1974dodgecharger,

I was not offered $80K.  The guy asked me what I would sell it for and I gave him that price initially.  Now is it worth $80,000 ?  I highly doubt it which is why I was surprised when people said I could possibly get that.  Again, I had no interest until now as to what these cars were worth since I had never considered selling it as I have never really had any serious buyers come up to me and ask me about selling it.

I do know that Hagerty had put a price value on it at $65K which is what the agreed value it is insured for so they must think it is worth that. However, I know that prices fluctuate like the housing market and such so again, I am at a loss for what that actual value of the car would be.

Again, this sale likely might not happen as the guy who was interested and I might not want to agree on a price.  You know everyone out there wants something for nothing.  This was my whole intention of this post was to find out what my car is really worth in real world dollars.  Heck, I could even throw it up on Mecum auctions and it could bring a lot more than what the car is worth since it is nicely detailed and the paint is like a mirror with no waves.  I know people are more willing to pay for a car that is done than what a car is half way done.

[Ghoste]

You could also throw it on Mecum at no reserve and end up way in the hole.  Thats a coin toss instant appraisal you always have to watch.

[tan top]

awesome charger Brian  ,  nice job  , all credit to you , to what it has won    ,

I don't mean any offence  & imo for what its worth , a car restored to that extent & detail , should be  OEM as per fender tag / broadcast sheet , ideally matching numbers or correct date code motor or warranty block etc .  as we all know that's what most of  the collectors want , & they will pay for it ! , if that's the particular model they are after .
 you have changed the color combo of your charger ,  so what !! don't make it any less of a awesome charger .
if you not !100% into the car , I mean obsessed with it , like I am with mine     , & someone offers you way above market value !!  take it ! but on the other side of the coin , to start from scratch again with another charger will prolly end up costing you much or a heck of a lot more , ( depending how much of the work you can do , your self !) ,  than what you sold this charger for  

good luck with what ever you decide