Ford making a 777HP Stang - This is getting interesting.....

[wingcar]

DAM Shelby, Creative Industries, Mr. Norm, Kar Kraft and all the rest of these "backroom conversion houses" who in the dead of night and under the cover of darkness changed the course of automobile history and our very lives....
DAM them for setting us on this course of .com distortion and confusion that will forever confuse many an auto enthusiast.....
Dam them to Hell for all the hurt they have brought upon this forum
And, finally... Dam them for giving us some of the most interesting musclecars ever to hit the streets!

[TUFCAT]

ECS, I dug up a couple more examples of "addendums" for you to compare with factory OEM Monroney stickers....you can thank me later.

[ECS]

Hmm, making more enemies I see....  

If we're "enemies" it is by your actions & efforts.  I don't know you and never knew a thing about you until you crawled out from under your rock to ridicule my 4 Door Project.  It's funny that you feel that you have an inherent right to proactively attack and disparage others yet it's their fault when they REACT to you instigating remarks.  You continue follow me from Forum to Forum and constantly post the contrary to ANYTHING I say.  Stop worrying about the things other People do and take care of your own affairs.  You might actually find that Guys like me are not as horrible as you try to make us out to be.

.......and stop using Rousch & Saleen information to try and prove how Ford registers their vehicles.    

[TUFCAT]

.......and stop using Rousch & Saleen information to try and prove how Ford registers their vehicles.    

ROUSH

Hmm, making more enemies I see.... 

If we're "enemies" it is by your actions & efforts.  

I wasn't talking about me.  

[ECS]

So.... there would be no problem then releasing the VIN of the Coronet that you used as a donor vehicle then?

Here is the original VIN Label from the B Body Shell that we used for the 4 Door Barracuda Project.  Also pictured is the striped down frame that we used for the base structure of the Car.  Thanks!

[JB400]

 

What state is the car in now?

[ECS]

What state is the car in now?

It's still in Missouri........just kidding!  (sorry for the pathetic humor)    I know we are venturing WAY off topic here.  Below are a couple pictures from around the end of last Spring.  The lead seams are finished, the Body Work complete and we are ready to apply the first coat of light gray primer.  Many of the other components are finished and waiting to be installed once the final paint is applied. 

I haven't been working on the Project too much in the past few weeks.  I have the VP for National Parts Depot coming in soon to discuss adding many of our new products to their Inventory line so that has been pressing.  My Dad also died 3 weeks ago today and it has been a difficult time for our Family.  There are days that I don't feel like working but time just keeps moving along.  He was my inspiration and mentor for almost everything in my Life.  I miss him dearly!   

[familymopar]

What state is the car in now?

It's still in Missouri........just kidding!  (sorry for the pathetic humor)    I know we are venturing WAY off topic here.  Below are a couple pictures from around the end of last Spring.  The lead seams are finished, the Body Work complete and we are ready to apply the first coat of light gray primer.  Many of the other components are finished and waiting to be installed once the final paint is applied. 

I haven't been working on the Project too much in the past few weeks.  I have the VP for National Parts Depot coming in soon to discuss adding many of our new products to their Inventory line so that has been pressing.  My Dad also died 3 weeks ago today and it has been a difficult time for our Family.  There are days that I don't feel like working but time just keeps moving along.  He was my inspiration and mentor for almost everything in my Life.  I miss him dearly!   

I have not had the opportunity to peruse this whole thread (and from what I see I look forward to it) but I would like to say that I am sorry to hear about your dad.  It's tough, no doubt.  Some of us have been through it and the rest of us will go through it.  Arguments between us aside, our thoughts are with you.  Best of luck and look out for yourself and your family through these times.

[pettybird]

While I sincerely appreciate your offer to help educate me in the area of Ford protocol, I doubt that I need specifics about information that many of you weren't even aware of prior to me mentioning the Mustang 1000...
I know how Ford sells their vehicles and am content with the proprietary information that that they have provided me over the past 17 years.

Well, that's lovely.  Here's a small problem for ya, though...I'd have no trouble slaughtering you in a game of Fox/SN95/S197 trivia.  Late model Mustangs are kind of a "thing" for me.  Also, I get 11 magazines a month, 10 of which are for cars.  You would think that *perhaps* I would know a lot more about this 100% factory 1000hp Mustang through one of them, or on corral.net, stangnet.com or buckeyestangs.com, three forums I've belonged to for over 10 years.  Suffice to say, I like Mustangs.  

That's not the real problem here.  This is:

I saw the Monroney Label on one of those Mustang 1000's and it was a Ford issued item.  It was not an addendum list added or attached to the original.

This is, and there's no other way to put it, a lie.  This is not how Ford and Shelby cooperate on projects.  That is not protocol for how a new Shelby sold through Ford is stickered.  It simply isn't.  You may or may not know that, but you DO know that you fabricated the statement in that quote.

You lied.

MY day job for the last nine years has been at a couple of specialty car dealers, and I see a LOT of paperwork.  I've seen cars with fewer than 5 miles on them that were never dealer prepped.

Here's what you don't know.  I'll lay it out for your VERY clearly.

There are only TWO S197 platform Shelbys that actually went to Las Vegas for conversion, and then back to the dealer network for sale as new.  The first is the 2007-2008 Shelby GT (and the 2006 GT-H), a car based on the regular 4.6L 3V GT.  The second is the 2008-2009 GT500KR, which is based on the 5.4L DOHC GT500.  Both of these cars were trucked from Flat Rock to Las Vegas, modified, and sent back to Ford.  They are NEW cars.  

Know what?  THEY BOTH CAME WITH ADDENDUM WINDOW STICKERS.  

Here is a stock window sticker for the Shelby GT:




Nothing to see here, right?  All stock, full Ford Monroney.  Lovely.  However, the car in modified form required a recertification for emissions and consumption, and now needed a gas guzzler charge thanks to a cold air intake, a pair of mufflers, and a tune.  That's listed on the Shelby addendum sticker here:




Now, this is a fully blessed, fully certified, fully warrantied car.  It's sold as NEW by Ford, and it has an addendum.


Here's the next one.  This is the Flat Rock applied label for a GT500KR.  Tell me what you don't see here:



And another example still stuck to the window of a new car:



Well, look at that.  The car was modified so far from base calibration that the car was illegal to drive anywhere on public roads until after Shelby got through with it.  There is no EPA data in the box as it wasn't yet a complete vehicle.  To be legal for sale, the car required this guy:




Again, this was REQUIRED FOR THE CAR TO BE SOLD AT ALL.  

That original sticker stayed on the car all the way to the dealer.  The original Ford sticker was NOT REMOVED since YOU KNOW DAMN WELL THAT'S ILLEGAL TO DO SO until the car is purchased.  Since that big ass 'not for sale' box might upset some people, Shelby was supposed to stick a color picture of the KR on the OUTSIDE of the window to cover up the box, though you can see from the example above that this didn't always happen.  We've had TWO of them through here that hadn't been prepped.  


My previous replies (as well as Tufcat's early efforts) were to show so much information that you could gracefully say 'well I didn't know that.'  You didn't.  You've been doubling down on your diffusions that I've completely swatted away, and now you've resorted to lying to keep it going.  Congratulations.  You're done.  Thanks for playing.

[TUFCAT]

My previous replies (as well as Tufcat's early efforts) were to show so much information that you could gracefully say 'well I didn't know that.'  You didn't.  
You've been doubling down on your diffusions that I've completely swatted away, and now you've resorted to lying to keep it going.  Congratulations.  You're done.  Thanks for playing.

We all knew that was a big-ass lie from the beginning..... thanks to Pettybird for putting it together so concisely.  

I really expected a lot more from a window sticker expert such as ECS.... Although he just pooped the bed, we learned a lesson on the lengths he'll go through, when faced with being called-out for being wrong.

For all newcomers out there who think this was played harsh, this thread only became epic because Dave refused to believe the information provided.  He starts to fight when he doesn't accept other peoples opinions, information, or it contradicts his agenda.  

I'm sure he's got a fight about that too!  

[ECS]

My previous replies (as well as Tufcat's early efforts) were to show so much information that you could gracefully say 'well I didn't know that.'  You didn't.  You've been doubling down on your diffusions that I've completely swatted away, and now you've resorted to lying to keep it going.  Congratulations.  You're done.  Thanks for playing.

That was NOT the style Monroney Label that I saw two years ago.  You can say it's a "lie" because YOU didn't see it but I can assure you that YOU are not important enough for me to "lie" to!  And before you internet cowards continue to question my integrity, I only ask that you have the guts do it to my face.  Just tell me the time and place and I will be there.  I have not "doubled down" on anything.  I've stated the same linear information from the very beginning and I certainly do not need you or the other idiot to translate what I have been saying.  I appreciate and enjoy discussing ALL brands of cars and Guys like you are so biased for Chrysler you wouldn't admit anything that challenges the "greatness" of the brand you blindly love.  

[TUFCAT]

My previous replies (as well as Tufcat's early efforts) were to show so much information that you could gracefully say 'well I didn't know that.'  You didn't.  You've been doubling down on your diffusions that I've completely swatted away, and now you've resorted to lying to keep it going.  Congratulations.  You're done.  Thanks for playing.

And before you internet cowards continue to question my integrity, I only ask that you have the guts do it to my face.  Just tell me the time and place and I will be there.  I not have "doubled down" on anything.  

I've already received a similar threat like that via PM and I told you what I would do, don't make me tell the world.

[ECS]

I've already received a similar threat like that via PM and I told you what I would do, don't make me tell the world.

Tell ANYONE you want.....and it's not a "threat".

[ECS]

This is not how Ford and Shelby cooperate on projects.

I just spoke with the Gentleman who was was with me when looking at the 2012 Shelby Mustang 1000.  He is going to see if he has the photos he took of the car.  If he has the pictures and forwards them to me I will post them.  I won't be posting "Saleen", "Roush" or "2007 Shelby" pictures to prove the point.  I didn't "lie" about anything! 

If I can't come up with the documentation I spoke about, I will apologize about being wrong and for providing erroneous information on the subject matter.  Fair enough?   

[TUFCAT]

I told you I saw a Jackelope on a wall once.  Many people told me they didn't exist. GUESS what....I believed them and I didn't need to get into an argument.

Somebody also told you that they saw a four-door BARRACUDA. Unlike my Jackelope story you wouldn't believe anybody else who told you they don't exist.

[ECS]

I told you I saw a Jackelope on a wall once.  Many people told me they didn't exist. GUESS what....I believed them and I didn't need to get into an argument.

Somebody also told you that they saw a four-door BARRACUDA. Unlike my Jackelope story you wouldn't believe anybody else Who told you they don't exist.

What part of "I SAW IT MYSELF" do you not understand?  Tom Barcroft was with me at the SEMA Show.  He didn't remember it being a Shelby Mustang with 1100HP but it had 900HP.  He too remembers the seeing the Window Sticker but can't remember the specifics.  (You'll have to excuse the fact that we didn't think we'd be called lairs and in a discussion about this topic 3 years in the future.) There WAS NOT AN ADDENDUM Label with it.  He is checking the pictures he took to see if it was documented.  

[TUFCAT]

There WAS NOT AN ADDENDUM Label with it.  He is checking the pictures he took to see if it was documented.  

You suffer the loss of of major credibility (as the self professed authority on Windows Stickers, VINS, OE documentation, DMV, DOT, Factory Correctness, Door Jamb Decals, hell we'll even throw Remanufactured Broadcast Sheets onto the heap) when you go on argumentative rants without making an effort to "get it right the first time".   There's already so much bad information out there from experts like you....why add more?  

Just like the 4-door Barracuda, its been over six months and you still have no more documentation or proof than you had when you started your rant....(nothing but a memory of one single soul on Planet Earth who [thought] he saw it on a loading dock [over 45 years ago].  Once again, people tried to tell you otherwise, but you wouldn't listen.

You'll be looking for documentation on that 4-door Barracuda as long as O.J continues to look for the "real killers".  

I participated in this thread in support and respect for the 10-15 retired people from the Chrysler Design Office who still have lunch together every month (including my Dad) who you called Liars about the Barracuda.    

[pettybird]

He didn't remember it being a Shelby Mustang with 1100HP but it had 900HP.  

Point of clarification:  the Shelby 1000 is rated at 950 on pump gas or you can get a race version with 1100.  You probably saw the street legal one.  Same car.

Also, "1000" is kind of a dumb name for a car that comes in two flavors, neither of which is 1000hp.

[JB400]

What state is the car in now?

It's still in Missouri........just kidding!  (sorry for the pathetic humor)    I know we are venturing WAY off topic here.  Below are a couple pictures from around the end of last Spring.  The lead seams are finished, the Body Work complete and we are ready to apply the first coat of light gray primer.  Many of the other components are finished and waiting to be installed once the final paint is applied.  

I haven't been working on the Project too much in the past few weeks.  I have the VP for National Parts Depot coming in soon to discuss adding many of our new products to their Inventory line so that has been pressing.  My Dad also died 3 weeks ago today and it has been a difficult time for our Family.  There are days that I don't feel like working but time just keeps moving along.  He was my inspiration and mentor for almost everything in my Life.  I miss him dearly!    

Looks good.   Hopefully, you'll be able to get back to it soon.  If you don't mind, keep me updated from time to time

Sorry to hear about your family's loss.  Best of wishes.

[TUFCAT]

JB, you're kidding me...!  That looks good to you?

[JB400]

Not with your pre school scribbles on it.

As far as the seam, never once did he say that what you see in the pic is what condition the car is currently in.   Overall, the condition of the car in the pic is not bad.  But yes, that seam needs some attending to.

[TUFCAT]

Not with your pre school scribbles on it.

As far as the seam, never once did he say that what you see in the pic is what condition the car is currently in.   Overall, the condition of the car in the pic is not bad.  But yes, that seam needs some attending to.

That's the cowboy 'Cuda.  Inside it has room for four.... wearing 10-gallon hats.  But hey, that's only my opinion and its okay to disagree!    We're all friends here right?  

[Indygenerallee]

Man, that 4 door Cuda COULD have been made to look ALOT better than that! that roof to quarter isnt even close to being straight. and first thing it should have had the top chopped a inch or two! looks way out of proportion!

[ECS]

You suffer the loss of of major credibility (as the self professed authority on Windows Stickers, VINS, OE documentation, DMV, DOT, Factory Correctness, Door Jamb Decals, hell we'll even throw Remanufactured Broadcast Sheets onto the heap) when you go on argumentative rants without making an effort to "get it right the first time".   There's already so much bad information out there from experts like you....why add more?  

You are a schizophrenic moron!  This discussion was about the "FACTORY" build status of a vehicle.  The Monroney Label was simply used to verify the premise of who owns a Car before it is shipped to a Customer. And for the record, I specialize in Monroney Labels for 1969-1971 Chrysler vehicles.  I have never claimed to know every detail & variable regarding modern day Cars.

[TUFCAT]

I have never claimed to know every detail & variable regarding modern day Cars.

Maybe you should have said.... "I don't know every detail & variable regarding modern day Cars"....and left it at that.    You sure claimed to know a lot about Ford and Shelby Mustangs on this thread!

You are a schizophrenic moron! 

So now you resort to "name calling"?  That's just not my style, I'd rather just embarrass you the normal way.