Ford making a 777HP Stang - This is getting interesting.....

[ECS]

I'm not looking for any fault at all.  Merely a curiosity that I had was all.

No problem.  I apologize if my response came across the wrong way!   This thread originally talked about the "777HP Stang".  I personally have no love affair or bias towards Ford Products.  I would MUCH rather have a new Hell Cat than a Mustang Shelby GT.  I simply provided information on how Ford had already manufactured "Factory" cars that have exceeded that HP number.  Some of those cars were registered as a Factory Ford vehicle and not a secondary conversion car.  I saw the Monroney Label on one of those Mustang 1000's and it was a Ford issued item.  It was not an addendum list added or attached to the original.  I only mentioned the early Boss Mustangs because Ford is STILL "loopholing" their specialty Cars the same way.  The Original BOSS Monroney label posted by Pettybird illustrates and proves that fact.  

Again, below is the description of the massive conversions that was done to the 1969-70 BOSS Mustang and how the vehicle was Registered and sold as a Factory car via its Federal Monroney Label.

The Mustang's body however was not wide enough to encompass the massive Boss 429 engine and as a result, Ford hired Kar Kraft out of Brighton, MI to modify existing 428 Cobra Jet and Super Cobra Jet Mach 1 Mustangs to properly fit the new Boss 429 engine. Kar Kraft was contracted by Ford to create the Boss 429, because Ford was stretching itself thin across a number of projects, such as the Boss 302 and its Trans Am version that competed in the SCCA Trans Am Series of races in the same years the Boss 429 was being produced for NASCAR. Kar Kraft at the time was also in the process of creating the Trans-Am Boss 302 as well. Production on the Boss 429 began in 1968 in Brighton, Michigan at Kar-Kraft's factory; the cars were transported to this plant directly from the auto maker's plant, and the work began. Kar Kraft made extensive modifications to the Mustang, including widening the shock towers and extended out the inner fenders to allow this massive engine to fit. The mounts for the front suspension were chopped and displaced to create room for the block and exhaust manifolds.[1] Next the battery was repositioned to the trunk and a stiff 3/4" sway bar was added to rear end to improve handling since the car was now nose heavy. This was the first Mustang ever fitted with a rear sway bar, and it notably handled much better than other big-block Mustangs of the time, making it a very capable track car. It came fitted with an 8,000rpm tachometer, and AM only radio. In addition, a hole was cut in the hood, and a manually controlled hood scoop was added to these cars. Other features included a front spoiler that was shallower than the Boss 302 spoiler, color keyed dual racing mirrors, and an engine oil cooler. It was also equipped with a 3.91 ratio rear axle with a "Traction-Lock" limited slip differential.



   

[TUFCAT]

No problem.  I apologize if my response came across the wrong way!   This thread originally talked about the "777HP Stang".  I personally have no love affair or bias towards Ford Products.  I would MUCH rather have a new Hell Cat than a Mustang Shelby GT.  I simply provided information on how Ford had already manufactured "Factory" cars that have exceeded that HP number.  Some of those cars were registered as a Factory Ford vehicle and not a secondary conversion car.  I saw the Monroney Label on one of those Mustang 1000's and it was a Ford issued item.  It was not an addendum list added or attached to the original.  I only mentioned the early Boss Mustangs because Ford is STILL "loopholing" their specialty Cars the same way.  The Original BOSS Monroney label posted by Pettybird illustrates and proves that fact.  

Does this looks like an addendum sticker to you? ....it sure as f*ck does to me. 

[BananaDan]

I think we all know where this thread has gone.

That's what the losing end of the debate always says when they have been proven wrong!

If that's what helps you sleep at night dude. Personally I could care less. I'm just enjoying watching your argument dance in circles and go nowhere so I chimed in here and there with my .02 cents. IMO, I think this was wrapped up a few pages ago but you just won't let it go and most of us are enjoying the entertainment of Tuffy batting your arguments around like a ball of yarn.  

[BananaDan]

Does this looks like an addendum sticker to you? ....it sure as f*ck does to me.  

[TUFCAT]

I couldn't stand it any longer....I just had to.  

[ECS]

Personally I could care less. I'm just enjoying watching your argument dance in circles.....  

Of course I have danced in circles!  I have no idea what I have been trying to express.  I'll just let people you tell me what I meant or didn't mean.    And exactly when did you start to care less?  Before or after taking the time to come here and post how you "could care less"?  

[BananaDan]

I'm just having fun dude. Don't take this shit so seriously. I don't even know wtf a Monroney label is.

[ECS]

Does this looks like an addendum sticker to you? ....it sure as f*ck does to me.  

You ARE clueless when it comes to Ford vehicles aren't you?  Ford offers/offered Shelby Cars directly from their Corporate Programs and Shelby is still licensed to convert a vehicle that a Customer sends to them after the fact.  Are you really this stupid are just acting again?  

[JB400]

Never mind. 

[ECS]

I'm just having fun dude. Don't take this shit so seriously. I don't even know wtf a Monroney label is.

All in good fun!!    That might be part of the problem here.  Some don't understand the Corporate importance or significance that the Monroney Label plays in expressing the origins of a Factory Vehicle.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monroney_sticker

[TUFCAT]

You ARE clueless when it comes to Ford vehicles aren't you?  Ford offers/offered Shelby Cars directly from their Corporate Programs and Shelby is still licensed to convert a vehicle that a Customer sends to them after the fact.  Are you really this stupid are just acting again?  

The GT500 is the only one with Ford Monroney label.  Anything else, like the Shelby 1000 you've been talking about ad nauseam, has an addendum sticker... with the original Ford Monroney label if being sold as new car. 

[ECS]

The GT500 is the only one with Ford Monroney label.  Anything else, like the Shelby 1000 you've been talking about ad nauseam, has an addendum sticker... with the original Ford Monroney label if being sold as new car.  

So you've went from denying that Ford/Shelby vehicles were offered exclusively by Ford, to providing specific examples on the very subject that you originally denied had ever occurred?  And I'M the one talking in circles?  

[BananaDan]

[TUFCAT]

So you've went from denying that Ford/Shelby vehicles were offered exclusively by Ford, to providing specific examples on the very subject that you originally denied had ever occurred?  And I'M the one talking in circles?  

Sometimes I wonder, ...what would "Maxim" do in a case like this?  So I have decided to seek advise from yet another (but lesser known) "Maxim" - - gentlemen, please allow me to introduce "MaximTufcat" to provide us with his most educated musings on the subject at hand...

Mr. ECS,

This is yet another example of your now well-established reading difficulties. I already explained this by means of a previous post. The rest of your posts are either based on a false premise of yours, raise points which I've already addressed, or is a non sequitur.

When people of at least average intelligence and reading comprehension read posts like yours, you come across as being perpetually confused and more than a little bit "out there", given that practically everything you type is false or irrelevant.

By the way, your oversimplified view of this subject has holes in it big enough to drive a truck through; I could spend all day listing examples which contradict your theories, of which I already done on this thread.

You have provided no examples either, and as such, your baseless assertions are dismissed. Since you don't seem to understand how making a valid point works, you need to quote or link to an example of me doing what you claim I've done. Is that clear?

And if you wonder why I'm rarely "polite" to you, it is because you constantly direct baseless claims toward me (just as you've done here), which is contentious in and of itself.

Irrelevance isn't determined by opinion. Something is either factually irrelevant or relevant; it is determined by definition. Someone who can't read properly obviously can't correctly determine relevance/irrelevance. When someone posts something irrelevant, they are coming from out in left field by definition.

That's your well-established reading difficulty taking effect... All of my posts have been perfectly relevant to whichever post I replied to. Your ideas come simply from your imagination, and are opposed to reality. That happens a lot with you, due to your residence in deep, deep left field.

I don't speak "Left Field™". As best as I can tell you are utterly confused about how the English language works in general.  Note that discussions on this board may easily get out of hand, I recommend people with a sensitive nature such as yourself avoid The Soapbox.


That is All,

MaximTufcat

[A383Wing]

 

[ECS]

....irrelevant....

Did someone just say something?

[pettybird]

Some of those cars were registered as a Factory Ford vehicle and not a secondary conversion car.  I saw the Monroney Label on one of those Mustang 1000's and it was a Ford issued item.  It was not an addendum list added or attached to the original.  I only mentioned the early Boss Mustangs because Ford is STILL "loopholing" their specialty Cars the same way.  The Original BOSS Monroney label posted by Pettybird illustrates and proves that fact.  

Again, below is the description of the massive conversions that was done to the 1969-70 BOSS Mustang and how the vehicle was Registered and sold as a Factory car via its Federal Monroney Label.

text that's been posted like 10 times already    

I'd very much like to see a FACTORY FORD sticker for a 1000.  What is its engine code in the VIN?  What's the Fomoco part number for the Kenne Bell blower?  Or the wheels?  Or the hood?  See, the GT500KR from 08-09 had ALL of its special parts down to the badging and mirror covers in the parts database, and you need a valid KR vin to even order parts.  And when they come in, you are forced to swap in the old broken ones...good luck if something's missing as you need special permission after begging a whole lot...we had one at work missing its front splitter and it was easier to return the car to the guy selling it to us than get the stupid part.

Shelby's previous billy badass mustang was the Super Snake, and you could buy either pieces or the whole package right from Shelby at the same time the KR's were being done up.  The Super Snake was strikingly similar but none of the conversion parts carry Ford part numbers (yes, I talked to both Ford and Shelby about this RE the KR splitter above--Ford demanded that the KR parts be totally unique) and the car HAD to be sent to Shelby after you bought it.  Shelby can and will provide cars for customers, but they are sold through a Ford dealer, in your name, and unmodified.  

So, that's your specific example regarding Shelby as both an upfitter (super snake) AND a right hand of Ford (KR) making new cars at the same time.  No one stated or suggested that Shelby doesn't build factory cars for Ford.  The 1000, however is NOT a Ford blessed product, and you'll find no end of search results where terms like 'post title' and 'conversion' come up.  

FOR INSTANCE,

You can go to directly to Shelby's website, check off how you want yours built, and it previews the addendum sticker.  Even on the announcement page it states "Send us your 2013 or 2014 Shelby GT500 today!!   http://shelbyamerican.com/2013shelby1000.asp

And if you say 'hey I was only talking about 2012!' well I've got that covered, too.  Here's the brochure on the Shelby website:  http://shelbyamerican.com/images/pdf/s1000-web.pdf  
Look in the middle of the page in the black area where it says PACKAGE MSRP: Does not include base vehicle

How exactly do you buy a complete car that requires you to buy a car to start with?  What Monroney starts off its option list with a whole, built car?  Not a base MSRP, but an entire car with destination charges, gas guzzler taxes, etc?

As far as the Boss 429,  I think you're off base by trying to inject the word "conversion" into the red paragraph you're posting.  Kar Kraft MODIFIED cars, and it's obvious they'd start with 428 cars.  Why?  All of the best parts were already on board.  A 9" rear, the heaviest duty top loader, factory oil coolers, staggered rear shocks, big front sway bar, stiffer springs, etc.  Why would Ford start with a straight six, 302, 351 or 390 car when you could bolt so much of the necessary stuff on at the plant in Dearborn?  The paragraph also melds what Ford did with what KK did:  KK widened the shock towers, cut the hole in the hood, put on the scoop, put the battery in the trunk, did whatever they had to to make the motor fit, hook up the exhaust, etc.  The list at the very bottom is a pile of mandatory "stuff" that you had to order, a la the L88 Corvettes, and it was all installed before KK got the cars.  

I don't know what you're seeing in the Boss sticker since it's a 100% certified car, built by Ford, sent to KK for the (complicated) engine install, and returned to Ford for sale as new.  I suppose you could have sent your new 69-70 Mustang to KK for a Boss 9 (they sold them over the counter) and they'd make it work, but it wouldn't have a Z for an engine code.  Kinda like the Jerry Junemann 70 Daytona...not a real Daytona despite having all original parts.  Or a '68 GSS Dart.  Or a Yenko 427.  Or a Tasca 428CJ mustang.

If Ford shipped the cars to KK with 428's in them it makes about as much sense as sending Daytonas to Creative wearing the wrong front sheetmetal...there had to be some regulation in place that forced it.  Superbirds were done completely in house (other than Creative supplying complete nose assemblies) and therefore didn't have to have Road Runner front ends on them for the trip to Clairpointe, so it had to be something wonky with outside suppliers.  Regardless, Ford sent bodies to KK to be done up that were earmarked to be Z code cars from day 1.  The same can not be said about the Super Snake or the 1000...Ford couldn't care less what you do with their car after you buy it.

If this is still somehow not clear to you, please provide specific references to what's confusing and I'll clear them up.  

[SRT-440]

So, regardless I can't walk into a Ford dealership and test drive a 700+ hp car?

Personally, I could careless what Ford or Chevy has done in the past..which is why I hang out in a Mopar board. 

The funny thing is..all across the interwebs in all the Ford and Chevy forums this same arguement is raging..LMAO.

[ECS]

If this is still somehow not clear to you, please provide specific references to what's confusing and I'll clear them up.

Ford was my first licensed Automotive Firm and was instrumental in starting my Company in 1997.  While I sincerely appreciate your offer to help educate me in the area of Ford protocol, I doubt that I need specifics about information that many of you weren't even aware of prior to me mentioning the Mustang 1000.  It would be interesting (actually comical) to know how many of you here had to "Google search" and take "crash courses" trying to become quasi Ford Experts over the last couple of days.   

I know how Ford sells their vehicles and am content with the proprietary information that that they have provided me over the past 17 years.  If I ever suspect that they are misleading me however, you'll be the first I contact to help clarify their Corporate mismanagement.  Thanks! 

[ECS]

I could careless what Ford or Chevy has done in the past..which is why I hang out in a Mopar board. 

The funny thing is..all across the interwebs in all the Ford and Chevy forums this same arguement is raging..LMAO.

That's odd?!  You "could carless" what Ford and Chevy does but take the time to visit their Forums to see what they are discussing? 

[DC_1]

ECS, I can see you are very passionate in your belief on this subject and I've followed all your arguments throughout this thread with an open mind. But I have to tell you, I can't come to the conclusion you are asserting that the Ford 1000 is a "factory" product in the way that the Hellcat program is. The examples and documents provided by others seem to clearly show the distinction. There is not a doubt that Ford was heavily involved from funding, engineering and loosely co-marketed to some degree. However, it still appears to me that this was all done through a proxy and not through direct ownership of the program by Ford.

Again, this is my opinion on the evidence, examples and information I have seen throughout this thread. I am still open to you providing more convincing documentation to change my mind but at this point the dots are not connected.

[SRT-440]

I could careless what Ford or Chevy has done in the past..which is why I hang out in a Mopar board. 

The funny thing is..all across the interwebs in all the Ford and Chevy forums this same arguement is raging..LMAO.

That's odd?!  You "could carless" what Ford and Chevy does but take the time to visit their Forums to see what they are discussing? 

Umm.. that was sarcasm...I think the thing is, ur just here to pick fights with anyone that has anything to say about Ford.

[TUFCAT]

While I sincerely appreciate your offer to help educate me in the area of Ford protocol, I doubt that I need specifics about information that many of you weren't even aware of prior to me mentioning the Mustang 1000.  It would be interesting (actually comical) to know how many of you here had to "Google search" and take "crash courses" trying to become quasi Ford Experts over the last couple of days.    

....you'll be the first I contact to help clarify their Corporate mismanagement.  Thanks!  

Hmm, making more enemies I see....  

Ford was my first licensed Automotive Firm and was instrumental in starting my Company in 1997.

Hey, you can create a new slogan here...."making enemies since 1997".

Considering the questionable interpersonal and social skills you've shown here, its amazing you could be successful at any business.  Especially one affording the luxuries you seem to have.

[ECS]

But I have to tell you, I can't come to the conclusion you are asserting that the Ford 1000 is a "factory" product in the way that the Hellcat program is.

I completely agree with your assessment.  While everyone thinks that the Hell Cat has done something that is so unorthodox in the Horse Power Wars, there are other Brand Manufacturers who have already done the same thing.  Even thought they take a different type of manufacturing route, they both are considered (DMV certified) "Factory" built vehicles.

[TUFCAT]

You just can't stop can you?     Hey! Where's that 4-door Coronet VIN you promised us in the morning?

Since you're late, you now owe us a title copy as a late penalty.