Mp3 straight to amplifier

[Dino]

Instead of spending a small fortune modernizing the stock AM radio I am thinking of running my mp3 player straight to an amplifier.  Has anyone done this?  I really didn't like having an aftermarket radio in the car as there was just no perfect spot for it.  I use my mp3 player in my daily most of the time and it has FM radio in case I want to use it.  The AM radio will just make the dash look pretty.   

I have absolutely no knowledge of amplifiers or speakers for that matter so I need to know a few things:  What's a good brand for either and what power should I be looking for?  I like to turn up the tunes and I want quality, but I have no need for a system that can win trophies.  I would like to mount a sub in the trunk facing the rear seat, two speakers in the package tray (although I may have to find another way to mount the rear defogger), and I would like speakers in the doors BUT when I install the power windows later on, the speakers may be in the way of the motors so I probably should look for some shallow ones.

Any thoughts?

[MaximRecoil]

Instead of spending a small fortune modernizing the stock AM radio I am thinking of running my mp3 player straight to an amplifier.  Has anyone done this?  I really didn't like having an aftermarket radio in the car as there was just no perfect spot for it.  I use my mp3 player in my daily most of the time and it has FM radio in case I want to use it.  The AM radio will just make the dash look pretty.  

I have absolutely no knowledge of amplifiers or speakers for that matter so I need to know a few things:  What's a good brand for either and what power should I be looking for?  I like to turn up the tunes and I want quality, but I have no need for a system that can win trophies.  I would like to mount a sub in the trunk facing the rear seat, two speakers in the package tray (although I may have to find another way to mount the rear defogger), and I would like speakers in the doors BUT when I install the power windows later on, the speakers may be in the way of the motors so I probably should look for some shallow ones.

Any thoughts?

First of all, if you can get some decent speakers in the front, forget about rear speakers. No competently designed high-end stereo system has rear speakers. Your soundstage should be up front, period, just like a home stereo, or live music. And trust me, if you have competent front speakers, good amplification, and a subwoofer in the trunk, you will not miss having rear speakers in the slightest. No successful sound quality competition vehicle ever has them.

Second, your subwoofer should face the rear of the vehicle, not the front. Bass frequencies are non-directional to the human ear, so in that respect, it doesn't matter which way a subwoofer is facing, but facing them toward the rear will provide bass reinforcement, which means you can get more volume from less power and/or cone area (i.e., the subwoofer will be more efficient).

Your MP3 player should be able to be connected directly to an amplifier, provided it has analog outputs (such as a 1/8" stereo miniplug jack), though you will likely need a 1/8" to RCA adapter. It won't be ideal, because your MP3 player won't have the same high quality low-level, high voltage (e.g., 4 volts or higher) outputs that a good head unit would have, so you'll likely have to crank the gains up on the amp, which usually results in a high noise floor.

If you want good sound, don't skimp on your front speakers; they are the most important part of the system. You want component speakers (i.e., "separates"; separate midrange driver, tweeter, and crossover) that are factory rated to handle at least 100 watts per side (and with crossovers set properly to keep the bass out of them, and proper usage of the volume control, you can give them 4 times that or more per side if you want to, for loads of headroom), and you want them to be 6½" diameter (or 5¾" at the bare minimum).

Instead of cutting holes in your doors, which is far from ideal, especially on a classic car (e.g., poor imaging, susceptible to rain water, interference issues with windows and such), if you don't mind spending the money, find someone to build you MDF/fiberglass speaker pods which will replace your kick panels (or learn to build them yourself), like so - link (I don't think you will find any off-the-shelf ones like he has for a '69 Charger, but custom fabricated ones are better anyway, if done right). This will result in better stereo imaging (because of a more equal distance between each speaker and your ears), protection from the elements, and no permanent modifications to your car.

As for amplifiers, any reputable brand will do; power is power; just keep in mind that real power is not necessarily the same as factory rated power. For example, a shady company might rate their amplifier at 100 watts x 2 @ 4 ohms, but then you read the fine print (if they even bother to include fine print), and you find that that rating is at 10% total harmonic distortion (THD), and no one wants to listen to music at such a high level of THD (anything over 1% is audible), which means realistically, the amplifier probably has about 10 usable watts.

The easiest way to power a pair of front speakers plus a subwoofer, is with a 4-channel amplifier, at least 100 watts x 4 @ 4 ohms / 400 watts x 2 @ 4 ohms. I'm not up on the latest amplifiers, and I haven't been since the late 90s, but a great amplifier for the job was a 1990s-manufactured Rockford Fosgate 800a4, like this one - link. You would use the front two channels in stereo mode to give your front speakers 100 watts each, and you would bridge the rear two channels to give your subwoofer 400 watts. It won't be breaking windows or setting off car alarms, but with good speakers, placement, a 12" subwoofer with a well-designed vented enclosure, it will be a great sounding, musical system with plenty of volume.

[Dino]

Great advice, thanks!   

I think I'll try to put the speakers in the kick panels, ie build up the panels.  They look like crap anyway so nothing to lose by trying.  I see a lot of different subwoofer enclosures, is there a minimum size that is recommended or does it not really matter?  I would like to keep my spare tire in the trunk so I will be limited in how big the box can be.  What if I mount two woofers in the rear of the quarter panels facing each other?  Would that work?

Regarding the amp itself, can it be mounted in the trunk or will I lose signal strength having a long wire run from the mp3 player to the amplifier?

[MaximRecoil]

I see a lot of different subwoofer enclosures, is there a minimum size that is recommended or does it not really matter?

The manufacturer of the subwoofer will have a size recommendation for the enclosure, both for sealed and for vented (AKA: ported), so you can go by that. Or you can use your subwoofer's Thiele/Small parameters (provided by the subwoofer's manufacturer) to really tailor an enclosure and port to your subwoofer. It is best to build a box (or have one built) specifically for your subwoofer. You can use an off-the-shelf box that falls into the internal volume range that's recommended by your subwoofer manufacturer, but the results may be less than ideal.

Also, a vented enclosure is better than a sealed enclosure; one 12" subwoofer in a vented enclosure moves the same amount of air (thus has the same sound pressure level [SPL] capability) as two 12" subwoofers in sealed enclosures. A vented enclosure needs to be larger than a sealed enclosure however. You might hear people say that sealed boxes give you "tighter bass"; that's an old wive's tale.

I would like to keep my spare tire in the trunk so I will be limited in how big the box can be.  What if I mount two woofers in the rear of the quarter panels facing each other?  Would that work?

I would only bother with 2 subwoofers if you find that the box you need for one 12" subwoofer in a vented enclosure is too big to fit in the quarter panel area (in which case, go with two 10s in vented enclosures). And I wouldn't have two subwoofers facing each other, because it could cause some sound wave cancellation, which will reduce SPL. Also, make sure your box is properly secured to the floor, else you'll have a dent in your quarter panel the first time you go around a corner. Keep in mind that a 12" subwoofer in a properly built box is fairly heavy, so use sturdy hardware to secure it to the trunk floor.

You need to know what you will be using for an amplifier before you choose a subwoofer or subwoofers. Subwoofers are available in single voice coil (SVC) and dual voice coil (DVC) configuration, and in a variety of impedances for each voice coil. For example, you could get an SVC subwoofer with a 2, 4, or 8 ohm voice coil, or you could get a DVC with dual 2, 4, or 8 ohm voice coils. You need to know the lowest impedance at which your amplifier is stable. In the case of the Rockford Fosgate 800a4 (or most any class A/B amplifier), it is stable at 2 ohms stereo, 4 ohms bridged. Since you'd be powering the subwoofer off the rear two channels bridged, you'd want a subwoofer that can be wired for a 4 ohm nominal impedance, which means a subwoofer with a single 4 ohm voice coil, or dual 2 ohm voice coils (you'd wire them together in series), or dual 8 ohm voice coils (you'd wire them together in parallel). If you had a subwoofer with dual 4 ohm voice coils you'd be out of luck, because you can only wire it for a 2 or 8 ohm impedance. However, if you had 2 of those subwoofers with dual 4 ohm voice coils, you'd be in business, because with series/parallel wiring, you can get a 4 ohm impedance.

Regarding the amp itself, can it be mounted in the trunk or will I lose signal strength having a long wire run from the mp3 player to the amplifier?

It should be fine mounted in the trunk, though it would obviously be better if you had 4-volt or higher preouts like good quality car stereo head units have.

[bill440rt]

Dino, you're going to have a heck of a time finding speakers that will fit in the kick panels on these cars. Maybe not so much the passenger side, but the driver's side will give you problems. They have to be low profile enough to clear the recess in the pillar, the wiring that's tucked back there, AND the parking brake pedal. This may be why no one offers repro kick panels with speakers like they do for other Mopars.
When researching speakers I did find Crutchfield offered a low profile speaker that might have worked, but again would not clear the parking brake pedal due to the speaker grille. And, since they were low profile speakers it sacrificed sound quality, this was also echoed in the reviews.
In the doors they went... Couldn't be happier with the sound.

As for subs in the trunk, I have two both located in the quarter recesses. They are at very slight opposing angles from one another. Tons of bass response.

[MaximRecoil]

Dino, you're going to have a heck of a time finding speakers that will fit in the kick panels on these cars. Maybe not so much the passenger side, but the driver's side will give you problems. They have to be low profile enough to clear the recess in the pillar, the wiring that's tucked back there, AND the parking brake pedal. This may be why no one offers repro kick panels with speakers like they do for other Mopars.
When researching speakers I did find Crutchfield offered a low profile speaker that might have worked, but again would not clear the parking brake pedal due to the speaker grille. And, since they were low profile speakers it sacrificed sound quality, this was also echoed in the reviews.
In the doors they went... Couldn't be happier with the sound.

They would most likely have to be custom built; I'm not positive that it would be feasible even when custom building them, but it is more likely to be feasible than attempting to fit them into the existing kick panels. Custom built ones can be extended or recessed in various directions to solve the problem, plus they are a lot better than off-the-shelf stuff such as Q-Forms, which are just made of plastic like the factory kick panels are. Custom built ones start with 3/4" thick MDF rings or custom-cut MDF for mounting the speakers, and then usually something like chicken wire is used to create the basic shape needed. Then several layers of fiberglass mat and resin are applied, then sanded/shaped and painted or finished with vinyl, leather, or whatever. The end result, if done by someone who knows what they are doing, not only looks good, but performs very well (the enclosure is very ridid/solid, so it doesn't color the sound with its own vibrations like thin plastic can). You can see a couple of pictures of some being built here - link.

The job is even harder if you use high quality 6.5" component speaker which can handle a lot of power, because they are bigger in diameter than a typical cheap 6.5" coaxial, and they have a deeper mounting depth as well, due to their much larger motor structures (e.g., bigger magnets, bigger voice coils). This is what allows them to handle a lot of power. For example, here is one of my late 1990's manufactured Rockford Fosgate (before they "sold out") 6.5" Fanatic Q speakers next to a cheap 6.5" Blaupunkt coaxial speaker:



I gave that pair of Fanatic Qs 900 watts for 10 years, and they never missed a beat. They could get ear-bleeding loud, and remain crystal clear with that kind of power. They still work fine.

Mounting the speakers in the doors is obviously the easiest and least expensive solution, if you don't mind the drawbacks (they can still sound very good that way, given enough power and good quality speakers).

Personally, even though my car is a beater, I couldn't bring myself to cut a big hole in the doors and door panels. Plus, I had a ~2,000 watt stereo system (1,100 watts to two 12" subwoofers, 900 watts to a pair of 6.5" component speakers) in several vehicles over the course of about 10 years, and my ears can't take loud music for very long anymore, so I'm not all that interested in enhancing the very basic stereo in my Charger (cheap coaxial speakers in the factory locations, powered solely off the Pioneer head unit). I still have my amplifiers, my subwoofers, my head unit and its outboard digital signal processing unit, and my component speakers and their crossovers, but they have all just been sitting in storage since 2008.

[Dino]

This project had been forced to the back burner but since I'm installing new carpet, there is no better time to do the wiring!

I have some new Scosche 5 1/4" speakers.  Not the best but I they are free and they will do for now.  Are these speaker sizes pretty much all the same?  If I later want to replace these with better 5 1/4" speakers should they be a direct replacement? 

I have three decent options to install the speakers in the kick panel area but I need to know if the speaker magnet can touch the car frame.  There will be some material between the two but I have very little room.

The only way I can get these speakers in is by moving them to the far top corner of the kick panel, or place them on the floor board either facing up, where the magnet sits on the floor, or facing down and in need of some more intricate bracing.

If I place them on the kick panel I will need to remove part of the panel itself and somehow integrate the speaker.  I need to look at speaker housings, something may be out there to make this easy, I don't know yet.  A plastic housing that I can glue onto the kick panel and then cover the whole thing would be ideal.

With the speaker on the floor I have enough room for my foot, but it's easy enough to kick it anyway so the kick panel seems the best location.  Sound projections should be fine no?

I do want a sub in the trunk and a nice amplifier, hopefully that takes care of the bass situation because I have a feeling these little speakers may be lacking a bit in the thump thump department.   

I also wouldn't mind wiring in a head unit to get better quality sound but I really don't want it in the cab unless I can really hide it.  Questions is will the remote still work if it is out of the line of sight?  Can I stick it in the trunk and have the remote do its job or is that out of the question?

I have a JVC deck here that had water damage, I may take it apart to see if I can make the radio smaller by removing the housing.  Maybe I can have the LCD screen in a small frame mounted under the dash so I can still see the stations!  Alright probably not but a man can dream!

The e-brake is fully depressed and does not reach the speaker in any of the locations, but it's damn close when it's behind the kick panel.  It's a good thing I rarely use the brake.

[Dino]

more

[b5blue]

Make pods and position them better. 

[TexasStroker]

I agree with a lot of the points MaximRecoil posted...

Invest in a good set of components and you'll likely be happy.  You can get by doing what you are describing, but it comes down to how much of an audiophile you are I guess.  The price difference between a POS and very good speaker isn't that much.  You don't have to swing for the fences, but usually a step or two up from "base" will be satisfactory and very noticeable to even the least musically inclined person. I personally prefer the Kappa line.  Different ears hear different things though...I will warn you though, if you spend time "listening" you will probably go in deep, lol.  I have had great luck with Alpine Amps.

If you do opt for the kick panel install it can be done...I use to think it was impossible on the driver's side, but I know a local 70 that pulled it off.  It has to be a very low-profile speaker.

I know of a few threads on here where a member installed them in the duct work, ran small speakers in place of the factory center dash speaker, and a couple of other clever tricks.  I believe a few had underseat speakers they liked.  Again though, what one member raves about as being the "best sounding" setup ever might sound like muddled garbage to the next guy.

I would wire the speakers in a rough in location and see how you like them...I don't think a good installer would have much time in getting you a nice box that would fit the kick panel/corner...If you opt for the components take them the A-Pillars too and you'll be a happy man.

I've got some interesting stuff planned, but I'm still in the "gathering parts" phase for the Charger's interior overhaul.  Something that might try some of us (like fitting tweeters in the a-pillars) is pretty simple for a good installer.  Plus, they'll probably like your car and cut you a deal.

Looking forward to seeing what you work out.

[MoParJW]

This is where I put 5 1/8 speakers in the kick panels, the magnets are just touching the metal (I think) so I put some soft material on them to prevent rattling.
The speaker covers are sticking out the kick panels a bit though, parking brake clears just fine.

[MoParJW]

I can't post pictures right now, I'm not at home, but I spotted this charger on ebay with speakers in the same location: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dodge-Charger-Base-Hardtop-2-Door-1968-Dodge-Charger-Base-Hardtop-2-Door-6-3L-/321489132616?forcerrptr=true&hash=item4ada3edc48&item=321489132616&pt=US_Cars_Trucks

Hope this helps to make a decision