Emdrive spacecraft?

[b5blue]

  Electromagnetic propulsion systems...have seen the news reports?  They could possibly rewrite the way things are done and what they cost in the near future. For fellow egg heads like me that can't get enough about space travel and such here is a link:
http://www.emdrive.com/interview.html
  It's kinda long winded and lacks production value but gets the concept information explained better than the little news clips that have popped up on the net.
Now where did I put that Flux Capacitor? 
   

[Chad L. Magee]

Something that might interest you:

http://www.engadget.com/2014/08/01/nasa-microwave-thruster/


I still say an annihilation reactor is the way to go for space propulsion.  I hate to say it but we need much more research in that area before it will ever become a reality though.  The trick is to stabilize the anti-matter forms in a controlled way before the reaction occurs.  At this time, only positrons and anti-protons (both charged particles) can be held temporarily using magnetic fields.  We still cannot "hold" anti-neutrons or anti-neutrinos, we can only measure their existence after the fact.  I can see a method that could use the EMP process as a version of a supercharger on top of the annihilation process.  It will need a splitting mechanism to transform gammas and x-rays down to microwave energies, which can be done with the right material catalysts...

The other means would be a "cold" fusion drive, but the amount of fuels needed would probably not be realistic.  Cold in this sense does not mean room-temperature, but 1 billionth of a degree above absolute zero using lasers to remove thermal energy from the target.  Around this temperature, matter combines in a process called Bose-Einstein condensation, whereby many atomic nuclei become one large nuclei.  Outer space has a typical temperature of 4 degrees above absolute zero, so there is help in that.  Last year, a few atoms from a mixture of deuterium and tritium in a special gold foil container were cooled down to near absolute zero and hit with a "cooled" laser beam of photons.  The result was published in a journal article in which the amount of energy give out was measured for the first time to be greater than the amount put in.  The final product was helium atoms.  The energy came from the conversion of excess neutrons into electromagnetic radiation and thermal energy....

I can't seem to find the journal article on the web.  I know have a copy of it on my desk at the office, so I will try to post it when I return back from summer break next week...

Here is a link for those who want to know more about BEC:

http://www.scientificcomputing.com/news/2014/05/stimulated-mutual-annihilation-gamma-ray-laser-made-bose-einstein-condensate-positronium

[b5blue]

  Those approaches require energy inputs we just can't do in a closed system right now. I do think they will be much better end solutions once we figure how to "put the devil in the bottle" though.     I'm still wondering the same thing with this one.....how much power to run for how long from where? (Solar will only do so much and drops with distance.) Thanks for the links, I'll check them out! 

[Chad L. Magee]

Not a problem, let me know if you have questions on the sites or if you want more information on something that was mentioned.  I am happy to help anyone interested in science when I am able to.  

The major problem that is plaguing all of this is the missing Rosetta Stone of physics: the Theory of Everything.  If it ever gets solved (I am still revising my theories on it), I think you will find answers to the above systems' problems (and many more), but more questions will also come about from them.  It is almost like a Pandora's box mixed with a Schrodinger's box.  Everyone wants the answer in the box, but no one wants to open it for fear of what could be inside (much more than a dead cat)...

[Mike DC]

    
Have you guys ever read about the Orion nuclear propulsion research back in the Cold War era?  


That was some interesting stuff.  

They figured out that G-forces on the human passengers would seriously hinder interstellar space travel no matter how much propulsion was available.  The fastest any craft can go is to spend the first half of the trip accelerating at maximum acceptable G-force, briefly peak speed in the middle, and then spend the second half of the trip slowing back down.    

[ws23rt]

Imagining traveling through space is great fun and we explorer types can't get enough. However the distances involved make it something that we are to fragile to endure.  (As Mike DC pointed out. ) Unless we are content to just travel around our back yard very close to home. Even that would be a major endurance effort.

Another option is to send a tougher facsimile of ourselves to do the traveling for us. (and phone home some pics. ) But the distances are still so great that it would take too long.  We are short lived and not very patient.

The only way I see significant exploration working (that we dream about) is to find a side step to the distance/time problem. As it is all we can do is look through optical and radio telescopes into the past. 

[A383Wing]

I know I got some dilithium crystals out here in the garage somewhere

[ws23rt]

I know I got some dilithium crystals out here in the garage somewhere

Are your crystals OEM?---If not than you will get points off at the next spacecraft show

[Bob T]

Chad, good explanation and link, thanks for taking the time to put it up, not anything I'd even remotely considered before.
Cheers

[b5blue]

   
Have you guys ever read about the Orion nuclear propulsion research back in the Cold War era?  


That was some interesting stuff.  

They figured out that G-forces on the human passengers would seriously hinder interstellar space travel no matter how much propulsion was available.  The fastest any craft can go is to spend the first half of the trip accelerating at maximum acceptable G-force, briefly peak speed in the middle, and then spend the second half of the trip slowing back down.    

I'm a huge fan of the space program and as a kid was totally pissed off that I couldn't watch Star Trek and living near Tampa could not convince my Dad to go to the cape for a launch! The result of my frustration was to learn as much as I could about such things as Orion and any other possibility. 

[Chad L. Magee]

Chad, good explanation and link, thanks for taking the time to put it up, not anything I'd even remotely considered before.
Cheers

Thank you.  I spend a lot of my spare time contemplating the underworkings of the universe and how it relates to chemical/physical properties....

[Indygenerallee]

And unfortunately being made by man this scenario will happen far too often.....     http://youtu.be/X-rkFaIPyL4 

[myk]

Make it so....

[Chad L. Magee]

   
Have you guys ever read about the Orion nuclear propulsion research back in the Cold War era?  


That was some interesting stuff.  

They figured out that G-forces on the human passengers would seriously hinder interstellar space travel no matter how much propulsion was available.  The fastest any craft can go is to spend the first half of the trip accelerating at maximum acceptable G-force, briefly peak speed in the middle, and then spend the second half of the trip slowing back down.    

Yes, I have.  It was an interesting project, back when NASA was still strong. (I realize that I will likely never go into space during my lifetime.)  Unfortunately, humans are inherently limited by their biological makeup to the amount of forces that can be acted upon them and the limited time frame that they can travel.  I can see where it may be an issue that could be solved via modified genetic cloning processes done in space, but at what costs (if it is even ever allowed)?  Then there are robots...

[Mike DC]

  

I recall a factoid that going somewhere nearby in the solar system would cost about 60x as much money if it's manned.  The robots are radically cheaper.    

[Ghoste]

As a species of immense and inherant curiousity though, I cannot imagine us settling for just letting robots have all the fun.

[ws23rt]

When we get our own personal hard drive figured out it might not be such a big step to copy and load the contents into a long lived robot for travel  We can than drive a charger around the block and a space craft around the solar system at the same time

Well --kinda at the same time

[Chad L. Magee]

When we get our own personal hard drive figured out it might not be such a big step to copy and load the contents into a long lived robot for travel  We can than drive a charger around the block and a space craft around the solar system at the same time

Well --kinda at the same time

Or put the Charger in the spacecraft and be driving both at the same time....

[Dino]

As a species of immense and inherant curiousity though, I cannot imagine us settling for just letting robots have all the fun.

What's that crappy movie with Bruce Willis where he operates his own image robot?  There's a scene in there where soldiers are sitting in a command center, operating their robot selfs.  That would be like having your cake and eat it.

[b5blue]

Chad if "nothing can travel faster than the speed of light", and light (Photons) move "at the speed of light" do they "in effect" not experience time? According to my understanding of Eisenstein physics of space/time, space and time are variables. So space would be infinite and time would be zero. (Photons are at the tipping point of the equation, any faster and time would be retrograde or a negative.)        

[green69rt]

Something that might interest you:

http://www.engadget.com/2014/08/01/nasa-microwave-thruster/


I still say an annihilation reactor is the way to go for space propulsion.  I hate to say it but we need much more research in that area before it will ever become a reality though.  The trick is to stabilize the anti-matter forms in a controlled way before the reaction occurs.  At this time, only positrons and anti-protons (both charged particles) can be held temporarily using magnetic fields.  We still cannot "hold" anti-neutrons or anti-neutrinos, we can only measure their existence after the fact.  I can see a method that could use the EMP process as a version of a supercharger on top of the annihilation process.  It will need a splitting mechanism to transform gammas and x-rays down to microwave energies, which can be done with the right material catalysts...

The other means would be a "cold" fusion drive, but the amount of fuels needed would probably not be realistic.  Cold in this sense does not mean room-temperature, but 1 billionth of a degree above absolute zero using lasers to remove thermal energy from the target.  Around this temperature, matter combines in a process called Bose-Einstein condensation, whereby many atomic nuclei become one large nuclei.  Outer space has a typical temperature of 4 degrees above absolute zero, so there is help in that.  Last year, a few atoms from a mixture of deuterium and tritium in a special gold foil container were cooled down to near absolute zero and hit with a "cooled" laser beam of photons.  The result was published in a journal article in which the amount of energy give out was measured for the first time to be greater than the amount put in.  The final product was helium atoms.  The energy came from the conversion of excess neutrons into electromagnetic radiation and thermal energy....

I can't seem to find the journal article on the web.  I know have a copy of it on my desk at the office, so I will try to post it when I return back from summer break next week...

Here is a link for those who want to know more about BEC:

http://www.scientificcomputing.com/news/2014/05/stimulated-mutual-annihilation-gamma-ray-laser-made-bose-einstein-condensate-positronium

I think my brain just exploded....

[flyinlow]

As a species of immense and inherant curiousity though, I cannot imagine us settling for just letting robots have all the fun.

I like the way you think.  

[flyinlow]

One G is  zero to sixty in 2.75 seconds. At one G, zero to 186,282 miles per second takes about 355 days if I figured right. Accelerate for a year to 99 % speed of light. cruise for about 3 1/2 years ,then decelerate for about a year and you could be to the nearest star outside our solar system.

Human endeavors run mostly on chemical energy. The Universe run mostly on nuclear fusion and gravitational colapse. I think we will need to harness those to go on a star trek.

Sending small groups of people to Mars ,one way ,is possible with current technology. I hope it happens in my lifetime.

[Chad L. Magee]

Chad if "nothing can travel faster than the speed of light", and light (Photons) move "at the speed of light" do they "in effect" not experience time? According to my understanding of Eisenstein physics of space/time, space and time are variables. So space would be infinite and time would be zero. (Photons are at the tipping point of the equation, any faster and time would be retrograde or a negative.)        

There is a way a photon can travel above the speed of light but it involves tunneling effects thru objects of mass depending upon probability.  There were a couple of experiments that were reported that this did happen, but not a majority of the time.  What we refer to as space is really three dimensions that you can represent as x, y, and z in an existence equation.  It can be represented using linear algebra matrices.  Time is the fourth dimension.  In my mind, it interacts with the below dimensions as a rotational vector system that acts on x, y, and z to give an additional variable in the existence equation.  It can be influenced by large gravitational forces (example: from a black hole) and is in constant flux.  Higher dimensions have operational components that work on the dimensions below it, much like linear operations in a matrix in crystal bravais lattice systems.  Each higher dimension gets another variable into the existence equation.  (One of my theories is that things like dark matter and dark energy are higher dimensional than what we can perceive in our multidimensional state.  The space it occupies is filled, but not with things we can experience.)  To photons (packets of light energy), time is only relative to the space it has traveled in the universe since the big bang...

[b5blue]

  I'm mostly considering the concepts of "extra dimensions" a way of attempting to understand/explain things going on that we can't wrap our minds around. To me it seems clear that Einstein's enforcement of the light speed limit will imply time, as part of "space-time", runs in both directions.  Ironically speed is relative to the passing of time yet you can't measure speed with out time. They have proven the faster you go the slower the object at speed experiences time. (Can it slow so far it will reverse by going faster?)
  If time will run retro it would explain bunches of quantum effects that seem unexplainable without other dimensions to me. As there is no way to see the results of any experiment...before you do it, we can't test retro-time.     (It doesn't mean it's not happening.)