electrical gremlin help/ suggestions

[mopar0166]

ok I have a 69 , 440 with msd , med ignition , dual field alt 65 amp,  electric fans, electric fuel pump, 

issue is my charging system and headlights. 

I have bypassed the bulk head connector for the charging system and by passed the annemeter.  I replaced the bbutt connections and it worked , then my head lights wont stay on .  bascilly going on and off as I trouble shooted that the charging system seemed to crap out again. 

when the headlights were going on and off it was only the headlights, parking lights and taillights remain on . 

ive already been thinking headlight switch but I just replaced it last year and the dimmer switch is bypassed.  I checked the high beam switch with a meter and it seems to work. 

could this be a grounding problem some where or is it related to a bad voltage reg again?

I dunno I would love to hear some suggestions because you can only look at the diagrams so much and the expertize on this board is like no other. 

Thanks in advance!

[Dino]

How do your charging wires run right now and what gauges?  Did you bypass the headlight switch by using relays?  These switches are bypassed because they can get hot.  Yours may have some heating issues as well.

If you have not bypassed the switch I would do so regardless of the cause.

[mopar0166]

I did the headlight relay upgrade a while ago.  I did notice when I had my hand under the dash that the wiring was in fact hot still which surpirised me. 

I read a little more into the relay upgrade and stuff I saw last night on the board shows getting power from the alt and not the battery.  that was one thing I was going to change. 

it would seem like if the switch/wiring gets to hot the headlights turn off but will come back on. 

im going to pull the dash apart this week and look over everything so I don't have to crawl under.  and then I plan on redoing the relay upgrade as well.


any suggestions , id be very thank ful

[Dino]

Good point, once the switch has cooled off the lights should come back on.

I did my car the same way.  I ran a 6 awg wire from alt to starter relay and another from relay to battery via an 80A anl fuse.  That's also where I tapped power to a 30A self resetting circuit breaker that feeds the headlight relays.  I also got rid of the ammeter and it's wires all the way to the splice and the fusible link.  I then soldered an 8 awg wire into the splice and ran it through the firewall to a 50A maxi fuse.  From there a short run of 8 awg wire goes to the starter relay.

[mopar0166]

Good point, once the switch has cooled off the lights should come back on.

I did my car the same way.  I ran a 6 awg wire from alt to starter relay and another from relay to battery via an 80A anl fuse.  That's also where I tapped power to a 30A self resetting circuit breaker that feeds the headlight relays.  I also got rid of the ammeter and it's wires all the way to the splice and the fusible link.  I then soldered an 8 awg wire into the splice and ran it through the firewall to a 50A maxi fuse.  From there a short run of 8 awg wire goes to the starter relay.

Wow, that is a bit more extensive then what I have done.  I basically took out the connection at the bulkhead connector and took out the annemeter spliced it at those two points.  I used a diagram I found on here a few years ago to put in a headlight relay upgrade.

I am using the most of the original wiring for the lights which may also be an issue.  From what you said it sounds as though you are using the starter relay as like a junction point.  It also sounds like you replaced the factory wire providing power to headlights and took out the internal annemeter to bulkhead connector fuselink all together. 

Can the starter rely handle that load and act as a junction for this ? 

Dino id love to see a pic of your engine bay

[Dino]

The factory headlight wiring is still in place, nothing there changed.  I merely tapped into the high and low beam wires as per the relay mod diagrams.  The only difference is that I didn't take power from the alternator directly by way of a fuse since I already had the ANL fuse bolted to the underside of the battery tray.

The starter relay is ideal to get all the big wires to.  Both ammeter wires are gone.  The black one going from gauge to splice and the red one going from gauge to bulkhead connector as well as the fusible link on the other end.

I still need to draw up a diagram of what I did and post it, I'll get on that and will get some engine bay pics.  You may find some in one of the last pages of the 'what have you done to your charger lately' thread.   

[mopar0166]

OK , great ! 

Im going to start taking the dash apart and removing stuff to gain access to all the wires and relays etc.  I am going to remove the original "charging wires and annemeter wires like you did and then upgrade the wire from alt to starter relay instead of it having to go inside the car to go out side.  ill also look at putting in the new supply line for the inside etc as you said in your last message.  pic is one I just found using alt as power source and not battery

[mopar0166]

rough wiring diagram

[mopar0166]

So I began wire the headlight and engine wiring. 

first removed the battery to find out it was leaking , and what did I have underneath the battery tray the relay wiring for the headlights.   SO I cut it all and and will have to redo that.

also since im jumping all the way in on this I decided to re  route some other wiring , get rid of wires that aren't being used and then replace what is needed with better wire.

found A few bad connection and bad wire that I would have never found if I didn't take it apart.  so ill begin redoing the wiring starting at the headlights and move toward the firewall.  I will then take the dash apart and address the stock harness and then wiring for all the extras I now have in my secondary fusebox. 

As for the charging system, I will take dino's recommendations put a bigger wire alt to strt relay then to battery with fuse from battery, the replace the strt realy to circuit breaker to dash.  im also foreseeing may some new wires for the power lead for the headlights.       

Hopefully this will some my issues , any suggestions / ideas im all ears

[Dino]

Sounds good!

I'll try to get my wiring diagram up today.  I have a few more little mods here and there that may help you.

[mopar0166]

thanks, I found a few gems on the original wiring. 

I think once this is all done it will solve a lot big and small issues that I have had since my engine swap. 

[Dino]

thanks, I found a few gems on the original wiring. 

I think once this is all done it will solve a lot big and small issues that I have had since my engine swap. 

Not just solve problems, but improve the entire system.  For the first time I could have my wipers on while idling and they don't chatter!   

[mopar0166]

Wipers have been the one thing since the beginning that always worked for me.  Im motativated to get it done by the weekend so I can do more on the road testing.  thanks again

[Dino]

Here's a few pictures.  Since somewhere down the line the car's engine bay was painted black, poorly, it all looks pretty terrible but I couldn't focus on that, my priority was reliability of the components.  It can be made pretty later, it has to function well first.

The bulkhead connector is new, mine was old and brittle and someone drilled a hole through it for the power wires to bypass the bulkhead connector.  They did not do a clean job.

Above it is a 50A maxi fuse.  The red wire goes to the starter relay, the black wire goes through the firewall and to the main splice.  You can see the thick 6 awg red wires that go from alt to relay to battery.  I also had 2 gauge battery cables made.  The brown trigger wire that runs from the relay to the starter was a bit toasty and was replaced with an 8 awg wire.  The majority of the oem wiring is original, all I did was clean them up and replace a connector here and there.  I have a single 12 awg wire coming from the bulkhead connector that runs to the coil by way of the voltage regulator.  On the other side of the firewall it goes to keyed and full 12V which got tied together and run to the ignition switch.  I had to do this for the Firecore ignition.  The pics also show the ANL fuse underneath the battery tray and the relays for the headlight mod.

I'll try to make sense of the diagram when I'm done with it.

[Dino]

more

[mopar0166]

Thanks for the great pics, and explanation, I had  few questions while looking at pics but I didn't read the full description. 

6 ga wire in some of the stuff seems a bit over kill, but if its helping with the load then it makes sense. 

so just to clarify what you did a bit more your power source for your headlight relay comes from your starter relay?

I think I have ether 10 or 8 ga wire to a circuit breaker then to splice, you think that will work>?  Its beefer then stock and the lead is fairly short. 

thanks again

[mopar0166]

SO FaR So Good ,

although im getting 14.1 at idle and roughky 14.2 above idle told its not bad but I was thinkin it was a bit high   

im I get more testing done ill let you know

[mopar0166]

so im told the voltage is good for where it is but it shouldn't go higher.  headlights work good and im charging. 

my mistake was trying to continue to use the stock wiring when it needed to be simplified for my use etc.     pics will come soon im doing a few other thigns while i have stuff apart

[mopar0166]

so it was running good, took it for another test run and bam no more charging. 

I would have to think at this point its a volt regulator issue

[mopar0166]

haha starter relay craped on me,  so im going to use a distribution block instead of trying to screw everything to the main starter relay bolt. 

I had lost power again, and then the main fuse off the battery kept popping. since the wire was fine and I couldn't find any other issues with the wiring im guessing that the starter rely internals were broke.  I took the cover over and sure enough a piece was broke with burn marks. 

when I get the parts in ill let you know my findings. 

[mopar0166]

its all better now, a new 140 amp power master/ internally regulated solved the issue.