First start up, backfiring - FIXED

[Dino]

Batt. + to coil + with a gator clip you can pull off to kill motor. It might start so be ready and it may keep running till the key is off if you keep the harness wires attached to the coil. Get me?   (If "start" is inop. and "run" is okay.)

Is there any harm in leaving the gator clip connected so I can keep the car running for a while?  Since I measure 0 volts at the coil while cranking, should the engine not die once I remove the gator clip?

You know what the worst of this is?  The idea that I have to get to the back of the bulkhead connector again.  And that means removing a bunch of stuff to get to it again...

[b5blue]

You have "Start" (Cranking.) position in the ignition wiring and "Run" (Fed to resistor.) also. 2 separate feeds from ignition switch one straight to the coil (Start.) with full 12V and one through the resistor (Run.) so the coil (Old style, not used any more.) will not roast while running. The switch must have the Start wire not feeding the coil so it won't start. If Run is still good the new coil will see 12V+ after you remove the jumper and the engine will run till you turn the key off. (It won't re-start without the jumper. Get me? (If I'm right, we could be barking at the moon!  )

[Dino]

Alright I'll go over everything again tomorrow.  The Firecore system does away with the ballast resistor so I'm going to have to look at the wiring diagrams to figure out what exactly is constant 12v and what is keyed.  I think the brown wire is keyed and blue is constant but I can't remember.

Thanks Neal   

[b5blue]

 

[firefighter3931]

Yes, the brown and blue wires need to be tied together and run to the positive coil terminal....that way you have engine start and engine run 12v to the ignition system. 

If you had the engine running something must have become disconnected between yesterday and today 


Ron

[Dino]

Yes, the brown and blue wires need to be tied together and run to the positive coil terminal....that way you have engine start and engine run 12v to the ignition system. 

If you had the engine running something must have become disconnected between yesterday and today 


Ron

Yep, has to be and since all I did was bolt the steering column back in place, that'll be the first place to look.  I may have pinched or cut the wire.  Guess I'm pulling the seat out again.   

[71 SE3834V]

Sounds like B5 has ya pointed in the right direction. I'm heading out on vacation tomorrow but if you're still down next weekend and need an extra hand let me know.

[Dino]

Sounds like B5 has ya pointed in the right direction. I'm heading out on vacation tomorrow but if you're still down next weekend and need an extra hand let me know.

Many thanks for the offer.   

Enjoy your vacation!

[Lord Warlock]

Did I miss that you tried the distributor already?  If you advance the timing too much, (turning clockwise I think) the car will run better, but will take a lot of cranking to get the motor to fire, if too much the motor will die.  If too much the other way, I can see it coughing backwards or stopping.  Had the distributor in 180 degrees backwards once and it shot gas straight up toward the hood.  Its easy to miss one bolt holding the distributor tight.

I'd rule out the easy to get to before dash wiring...can't stand wiring.

[1974dodgecharger]

Did I miss that you tried the distributor already?  If you advance the timing too much, (turning clockwise I think) the car will run better, but will take a lot of cranking to get the motor to fire, if too much the motor will die.  If too much the other way, I can see it coughing backwards or stopping.  Had the distributor in 180 degrees backwards once and it shot gas straight up toward the hood.  Its easy to miss one bolt holding the distributor tight.

I'd rule out the easy to get to before dash wiring...can't stand wiring.

I forgot to hook up my dizzy one time after taking apart the car and whoosh...a geyser straight out of my vent tube..im like, 'WTF' crank it again and there it goes....finally after being dumb for a minute decide to look under the hood and damn me straight dizzy not hooked up to ecu, shit.

[Back N Black]

Make sure the new dist has a good ground. Maybe torque down the adjusting bolt at the base of the dist.

[Dino]

I'll recheck everything.  I'm notorious for missing a ground here and there.  

Now let's assume for a minute that I cannot find the culprit and I get no power in the start position.  Is there any law that says I can't take keyed power from somewhere else such as the accessory fuse?

EDIT:  I have it wrong.  It has keyed power but it drops to zero when cranking.  So how do I give the coil 12v while cranking?

I really doubt the issue is at the bulkhead connector.  I tied the brown and blue ignition wires together, soldered them and put marine heat shrink over it.  The I taped the wiring bundle so it would be quite amazing it the blue wire came apart from the brown.  I installed an ignition switch lamp recently, one that worked when I bench tested it, but now it does not work nor does the warning buzzer.  I can't really see what could have gone wrong at the switch but I think that'll be the first place to look.

[Dino]

Could the neutral safety switch have anything to do with this?  A few days ago the key wouldn't turn over the car so I cleaned the neutral safety switch and connector which did the job and the car fired up.  The day after it was the same story, the key didn't do anything so I cleaned the switch again which made the starter turn over which it's still doing. 

This could be unrelated but I thought I'd throw it out there.

[b5blue]

Well NSS is just related to the starter relay activating and engaging the starter. If it cranks over in P or N it's okay. Can you get to the back of the ignition switch for volts check?  It could just be a loose connection? Sounds like the splice tie in was done the way I do things.
I'm trying to get you to do a run test on the motor, to see if it starts/runs again. (Even if crappy)

[Dino]

Well NSS is just related to the starter relay activating and engaging the starter. If it cranks over in P or N it's okay. Can you get to the back of the ignition switch for volts check?  It could just be a loose connection? Sounds like the splice tie in was done the way I do things.
I'm trying to get you to do a run test on the motor, to see if it starts/runs again. (Even if crappy)

I just dropped the column and got the ignition switch out.  Nothing seemed out of the ordinary but I took the connector off, cleaned it and put it back.  I then measure voltage at the brown wire while cranking (at the switch) and got just under 10 volts.  I then measured it at the bulkhead connector while my wife cranked the car and same thing.  12 volts in run, 9 something while cranking.  I then checked coil + and same thing.  yesterday it was 0 now it's a bit over 9.

So we got power again, but not a ton.  The battery reads 12.03 between the poles after a full charge.

So it looks like the connections are fine and we have continuity but if this coil needs 12 while cranking, I'm gonna have to come up with 2.5 extra volts somewhere.   

[b5blue]

My plan is going to include a coil relay triggered by the ignition switch to supply max power to the coil.  You could just rig one up for now. 

[71 SE3834V]

Could the neutral safety switch have anything to do with this?  A few days ago the key wouldn't turn over the car so I cleaned the neutral safety switch and connector which did the job and the car fired up.  The day after it was the same story, the key didn't do anything so I cleaned the switch again which made the starter turn over which it's still doing. 

This could be unrelated but I thought I'd throw it out there.

As b5 just said cranking circuit is separate from the ignition circuit. Sounds from everything written I'd be leaning towards a loose connection somewhere (possibly the ign. switch) or a bad ign. switch itself. The contacts could be burnt inside. How old is it? Original? If you had things unplugged in the column sometimes when you plug them back in a wire will back out if the plastic housing is not up to snuff.
Also at this point as b5 said I'd run a wire from batt. + to the coil + just to get it fired up, dist set and confirm that the engine ign. is good to go.
Your battery will show a higher voltage after charging but will drop after cranking because the "surface charge" will be drained from it. Disconnect the wire that sends power to the solenoid from the starter relay and see how much voltage you have at the coil. This way you're getting a reading w/o the starter draining the battery.

[Dino]

My plan is going to include a coil relay triggered by the ignition switch to supply max power to the coil.  You could just rig one up for now. 

Good idea.

How can I add one?  Run another wire from ignition brown to relay?  I have a 30 amp circuit breaker at the relays for the headlights.  I could add a relay there and run a wire inside and somehow splice it into the brown connector at the ignition switch.  If this is how to do it then tips on how to hook up the wire at the switch are welcome seeing it has a molded connector there.

I just head some popping noise which I think came from the dizzy when I hooked up the battery, it popped again when I took it off.  It only did it twice, haven't heard it before.  should I be worried?

Could the neutral safety switch have anything to do with this?  A few days ago the key wouldn't turn over the car so I cleaned the neutral safety switch and connector which did the job and the car fired up.  The day after it was the same story, the key didn't do anything so I cleaned the switch again which made the starter turn over which it's still doing. 

This could be unrelated but I thought I'd throw it out there.

As b5 just said cranking circuit is separate from the ignition circuit. Sounds from everything written I'd be leaning towards a loose connection somewhere (possibly the ign. switch) or a bad ign. switch itself. The contacts could be burnt inside. How old is it? Original? If you had things unplugged in the column sometimes when you plug them back in a wire will back out if the plastic housing is not up to snuff.
Also at this point as b5 said I'd run a wire from batt. + to the coil + just to get it fired up, dist set and confirm that the engine ign. is good to go.
Your battery will show a higher voltage after charging but will drop after cranking because the "surface charge" will be drained from it. Disconnect the wire that sends power to the solenoid from the starter relay and see how much voltage you have at the coil. This way you're getting a reading w/o the starter draining the battery.

I'll give it a shot!

[Dino]

12.03V between battery poles with or without solenoid wire connected.

I ran a wire from battery + to coil + and only get 11.65V.  It will not start.

Dizzy clicked again when connecting/disconnecting negative battery cable.

If the coil literally needs 12V then the issue has to be with the battery no?

What's the best way to hook up my daily to give it more juice?

[Dino]

I hooked up my daily as well and got 12.4V at the battery, 10.6 at the coil while cranking.  What the heck is going on here?  What do I have to do to get 12V at the coil?

I have a small battery charger, can I try to start it while that is hooked up?

[Dino]

I hooked the battery charger up.  It's a small Schumacher 2/6 amp.  I have it on 6 amp and it reads only 25% charge, when I flip it to 2 amp the needle goes past 100%.  In other words, I have no idea how to read this.   

With the charger on 6 amps, the battery reads 12.52 and climbs slowly.  When I disconnect it, the voltage drops back to 12.03.

If the problem is not the battery then I have absolutely no clue.

[71 SE3834V]

I don't think the firecore would require full 12v to start but I will defer to Ron on that one. No car as far as I know will have full voltage above 12v while cranking unless it has a massive battery or has 2 or 3 jumping it.
If you moved the dizzy around before the timing could be off. Gonna have to go back and make sure it is timed close enough.
When you had the wire hooked to the coil it is completing the primary circuit and powering the coil which has resistance in it so the voltage will drop. When I was testing my car last year (standard point ign) I only had 5.13v at the coil and it ran. This is just an example, not applicable in your case.
Good luck, I'm outta here for the week.

Your battery is only taking 25% at 6 amps but when you turn it on 2 amps it takes the full 100%.
Ok, now I'm really outta here! Shutting down the computer. 

[Dino]

I don't think the firecore would require full 12v to start but I will defer to Ron on that one. No car as far as I know will have full voltage above 12v while cranking unless it has a massive battery or has 2 or 3 jumping it.
If you moved the dizzy around before the timing could be off. Gonna have to go back and make sure it is timed close enough.
When you had the wire hooked to the coil it is completing the primary circuit and powering the coil which has resistance in it so the voltage will drop. When I was testing my car last year (standard point ign) I only had 5.13v at the coil and it ran. This is just an example, not applicable in your case.
Good luck, I'm outta here for the week.

Your battery is only taking 25% at 6 amps but when you turn it on 2 amps it takes the full 100%.
Ok, now I'm really outta here! Shutting down the computer. 

Get outta here, go have some fun!      

I didn't move the dizzy, I haven't touched anything since it last ran.

I'll leave the battery on the charger and try again tonight.  Thanks for the help! 

[b5blue]

I hooked up my daily as well and got 12.4V at the battery, 10.6 at the coil while cranking.  What the heck is going on here?  What do I have to do to get 12V at the coil?

I have a small battery charger, can I try to start it while that is hooked up?

Keep in mind "while cranking" means the starter is sucking amps and that drops the voltage. You could disable the starter and do a cranking at the coil voltage test to see what it reads without the starter drawing power.

[Dino]

It was the battery!!!!

I charged it up all afternoon, it was up to about 80% so I thought I'd give it a shot and it fired right up.  Thanks for 'charging' my battery Autozone!   

Well I'm glad I didn't take half the car apart, although it'll be fun to get that ignition switch back in.   

Man am I ever relieved.

Thanks for the help felllas, cold beers on me and no expiration on that offer.   

Just for that I'll have to show up at Carlisle next year.