Legendary vs. PUI

[1965gp]

Legendary vs PUI...

Most of my resto experience has been GM and I haven't ever seen a vendor be as dominant as Legendary is for Mopar interiors.

I have used both- my 70 GTO and my 70 LeMans both have Legendary interior and the quality is fantastic. Even worked with me to make 69 style seat covers in a 70 color (didn't want comfort weave in the LeMans)

My 79 bandit Trans am has PUI. The 79's interior is close to the quality of Legendary but not quite as thick. True we are comparing apples to oranges here as the seats are different.

So aside from the lifetime warranty what other reason is there to buy legendary. Is the product more accurate (grain/color) or the quality better? I only ask because it seems to be a selling point as it it mentioned quite often in ads.

Just curious

Thanks in advance- jeremy

[Ghoste]

You'll find that with Mopar stuff.  Because the market for restoration parts is so much smaller than GM, a single great supplier can come to dominate, especially companies that were into us before we became popular (and Legendary is one).  Legendary do have great quality, pricing and reputation and you'd be hard pressed to beat them.  They actually supply most of the other aftermarket upholstery retailers.  You might do better on pricing with Legendary stuff  with someone like Dante's though.

[1965gp]

I figured it was something like that. No questions with their quality- always very happy with what I got.

[MaximRecoil]

Legendary do have great quality, pricing and reputation and you'd be hard pressed to beat them.

Great pricing? Aren't they the most expensive? The prices for Mopar seat covers and interior door panels is outrageous, regardless of who you buy them from, just like it is for most other "restoration" type parts. PUI tends to be much cheaper; for example, a pair of front seat covers for a '69 Camaro:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/pui-69fs10u/applications/

$110 is reasonable for a pair of seat covers (it isn't like there is much to them; a lot more labor goes into making a pair of traditional shoes or work boots for example). Mopar seat covers from Legendary are about 4 times as expensive.

[sanders7981]

I believe year one uses PUI, which is definitely a much more cheaper cost effective product.  I went with PUI and have no complaints.  The interior looks as most picture perfect photos of a charger online.  I never intended for a "concours" restoration,so I didn't mind if the seats were a little off.  Not that mine are, but I don't expect the seat quality of a 40+ year old car to be that of a new one, so set a realistic level of expectations when considering your choice.  At the end of the day, the seat looks good and does its job at less of a cost then legendary seat covers.   

[MaximRecoil]

I didn't know that PUI made Mopar seat covers. That's good to know. Of course, it seems that they are still way more expensive than they should be, which figures (about $250 for a pair of '70 Charger front seat covers, but it beats $439 a pair from Legendary).

I'm tempted to make some myself. I know how to use a sewing machine and scissors. I hate arbitrarily high prices, just on principle.

[Ghoste]

Arbitrary?  They only made more than twice the number of Camaros in 69 as Chargers.  You might as well compare the prices to seat covers for 65 Mustangs.  I think you absolutely should buy a sewing machine and make your own just to prove how cheaply and easily it can be done.  Please provide lots of pics.

[MaximRecoil]

Arbitrary?

Absolutely.

They only made more than twice the number of Camaros in 69 as Chargers.

What of it?

You might as well compare the prices to seat covers for 65 Mustangs.

Yes, I might as well, given that a pair of vinyl bucket seat covers all cost roughly the same amount in terms of materials and labor to manufacture. By the way, your oversimplified view of "supply and demand" has holes in it big enough to drive a truck through; I could spend all day listing examples which contradict your theory, one of which I already mentioned on this thread, i.e.:

PUI - $250 for a pair of '70 Charger front seat covers
Legendary - $439 for a pair of '70 Charger front seat covers

Note that they made exactly the same amount of 1970 Dodge Chargers as 1970 Dodge Chargers (not that that matters nearly as much as you think it does).

I think you absolutely should buy a sewing machine and make your own just to prove how cheaply and easily it can be done.  Please provide lots of pics.

I don't need to buy a sewing machine; I already have one. And yes, it can be done cheaply. Automotive upholstery vinyl can be had starting at about $5 a yard, and the minor items you would need such as scrim foam and welt cord are dirt cheap as well. We aren't talking full grain leather here, nor even leather at all. As for "easy", it gets easy with practice, which is what factory workers get plenty of. I've worked in shoe factories, and those women in the stitching room sewing the leather uppers together flew on those sewing machines, and could practically do it blindfolded.

Almost as bad as arbitrarily high prices: apologists for arbitrarily high prices.

[Cooter]

Once he finds out how much money is in the materials, spends a week sewing up a lopsided seat cover that fits loo Ikea sh*t, he'll learn Ghoste. I attempted in the beginning to fab stuff cheaper. All is great until you find out once you begin to get orders from perfectionists that DEMAND higher quality than originally came, you end up eating alot.
hell, I can get a T5 in a Charger for $500.00, but I'm damn sure not gonna sell kits so some dumbass can put one behind a 605 Hemi and go drag racing on the weekends. Cheaper is just that, someone is sacrificing somewhere to make it cheaper.

[Ghoste]

Maxim, you are the one who introduced another vehicle as an example and thereby brought forth the supply and demand point, not me.  As such, you would be driving these trucks through your own argument, not mine.  My only point was that I thought Legendary had great pricing, which is my personal opinion, nothing more nothing less and its based solely on my personal experiences.  You attempted, quite lamely, to invalidate my opinion by suggesting that Camaro covers are so cheap that it followed in your mind that all covers must likewise be similarly priced.  You offered no real evidence of this so it too, is nothing but an OPINION.  Not fact, just an opinion.  Therefore, my counterpoint that Camaro covers could be in great demand by virtue of the massive numbers built and being restored is every single bit as valid as your opinion.
As to the arbitrary pricing, I assume that you must have created the pricing guidelines for Legendary?   :sarcasmalert:I know a great mind such as yours would never ever dare to offer a suggestion such as this without the same irefutable proof you continually demand of others.  Before responding, that you didn't ACTUALLY say that Legendary had arbitrary pricing you merely stated you are against, let me say that we are discussing pricing at Legendary so if your "arbitrary" comment was not about them but instead generic, then shame on you for throwing such a non sequitur into a discussion which was really about opinions and experiences.
It seems to me like once again, having no real contribution to make to the discussion at hand you would rather misdirect to another of these contests of debate ability.
So, since you have your sewing machine already, instead of picking apart my reply piecemeal as you so love to do, why not accept my challenge and prove your point with hard facts for once.  Get the material as you suggested and create your own covers for less than they can be purchased.  Don't forget to factor in business and property taxes, material and equipment costs, a fair but simulated labor rate and subsidize it all over a theoretical run of seat covers.

[1965gp]

Overpriced or not- it seems like Legendary is the way to go.

I have no complaints from what I have bought in the past.

I would never try to make my own and surely not of vinyl that was $5 / yard.

[JB400]

When you get done making your covers, figure these into the costs:

A surcharge for the roof over your head

A surcharge for the cost of electricity

A surcharge for the sewing machine

A surcharge for thread and needles to make the sewing machine work

A surcharge for any other tools needed to make your covers

A surcharge for the vinyl or leather

A surcharge for your wages and everyone else involved in making your covers multiplied by the number of days it takes you to make your covers

A surcharge for benefits for everybody

A surcharge for any permits required

A surcharge for taxes (local, state, and federal)

A surcharge for office supplies

A surcharge for packaging and shipping

A surcharge for a vehicle and related costs multiplied by the number of vehicles

A surcharge for advertising

I'm sure I'm missing a few, but the point is, when you buy their covers, your paying for quite a bit.  Doing it yourself may cut out some of the surcharges mentioned, there are quite a few that need to be figured in.  Start doing the math and you will find that the price of those covers aren't quite so bad.  Quality would probably be the only reason I'd consider making my own.

[MaximRecoil]

Once he finds out how much money is in the materials,

I already know how much, and it is not much.

spends a week sewing up a lopsided seat cover that fits loo Ikea sh*t, he'll learn Ghoste.

Sewing might be rocket science to you, but it isn't to everyone. I learned to sew when I was about 4 years old; my mother was a professional seamstress, and she did plenty of upholstery work as well as making clothes and doing alterations.

I attempted in the beginning to fab stuff cheaper. All is great until you find out once you begin to get orders from perfectionists that DEMAND higher quality than originally came, you end up eating alot.

If I made some seat covers, it would only be for myself.

Cheaper is just that, someone is sacrificing somewhere to make it cheaper.

Or cheaper is when someone isn't arbitrarily charging such a high price; or do you actually believe that "You get what you pay for" is some universal law of nature enforced by God, which prevents anyone from ever charging an arbitrarily high price for something?

Maxim, you are the one who introduced another vehicle as an example and thereby brought forth the supply and demand point, not me.

No, you are the one that introduced the "supply and demand" "point" (and a grossly oversimplified version of it, no less); I said nothing about car production numbers. I compared one product to another product in the exact same category, and noted the drastic difference in price. I guess by your "reasoning", a '69 Camaro must have only cost ~25% of what a '69 Charger cost, you know, because they made over twice as many of them. I suppose also that size 9 shoes should cost ~25% of size 13 shoes, you know, because far more people wear a size 9 than wear a size 13.

As such, you would be driving these trucks through your own argument, not mine.

No, you're confused. See above.

My only point was that I thought Legendary had great pricing, which is my personal opinion, nothing more nothing less and its based solely on my personal experiences.

Yes, and "great pricing" is an odd claim for a company that charges the most for commercially produced seat covers.

You attempted, quite lamely, to invalidate my opinion by suggesting that Camaro covers are so cheap that it followed in your mind that all covers must likewise be similarly priced.

No, your opinion is dubious due to the fact that you said the most expensive company has "great pricing". The Camaro seat covers simply illustrated how ridiculously high their prices are.

You offered no real evidence of this so it too, is nothing but an OPINION.  Not fact, just an opinion.

You want evidence for something that is practically self-evident? They are practically the same product, thus there shouldn't be a drastic difference in price.

Therefore, my counterpoint that Camaro covers could be in great demand by virtue of the massive numbers built and being restored is every single bit as valid as your opinion.

No, it isn't valid, which should have been obvious from the following example:

PUI - $250 for a pair of '70 Charger front seat covers
Legendary - $439 for a pair of '70 Charger front seat covers

Both of those are overpriced, but Legendary is much more so.

As to the arbitrary pricing, I assume that you must have created the pricing guidelines for Legendary?   :sarcasmalert:I know a great mind such as yours would never ever dare to offer a suggestion such as this without the same irefutable proof you continually demand of others.  Before responding, that you didn't ACTUALLY say that Legendary had arbitrary pricing you merely stated you are against, let me say that we are discussing pricing at Legendary so if your "arbitrary" comment was not about them but instead generic, then shame on you for throwing such a non sequitur into a discussion which was really about opinions and experiences.
It seems to me like once again, having no real contribution to make to the discussion at hand you would rather misdirect to another of these contests of debate ability.

Arbitrarily high prices = when the price of a product drastically exceeds cost + typical profit margin. The easiest way to identify it is to simply look at the prices from other companies who make similar products.

So, since you have your sewing machine already, instead of picking apart my reply piecemeal as you so love to do, why not accept my challenge and prove your point with hard facts for once.  Get the material as you suggested and create your own covers for less than they can be purchased.  Don't forget to factor in business and property taxes, material and equipment costs, a fair but simulated labor rate and subsidize it all over a theoretical run of seat covers.

I don't need to, given that PUI has already done it.

When you get done making your covers, figure these into the costs:

A surcharge for the roof over your head

A surcharge for the cost of electricity

A surcharge for the sewing machine

A surcharge for thread and needles to make the sewing machine work

A surcharge for any other tools needed to make your covers

A surcharge for the vinyl or leather

A surcharge for your wages and everyone else involved in making your covers multiplied by the number of days it takes you to make your covers

A surcharge for benefits for everybody

A surcharge for any permits required

A surcharge for taxes (local, state, and federal)

A surcharge for office supplies

A surcharge for packaging and shipping

A surcharge for a vehicle and related costs multiplied by the number of vehicles

A surcharge for advertising

I'm sure I'm missing a few, but the point is, when you buy their covers, your paying for quite a bit.  Doing it yourself may cut out some of the surcharges mentioned, there are quite a few that need to be figured in.  Start doing the math and you will find that the price of those covers aren't quite so bad.  Quality would probably be the only reason I'd consider making my own.

The cost comparison is not between Legendary and me (at least not the one that is the main point), it is between Legendary and PUI. Do you have some reason to believe that PUI has less "surcharges" than Legendary does?

[bill440rt]

Here's my take on the two, FWIW.

I purchased white seat covers from Legendary for my '70 back in the late '90's. About 6 years after installing them, the cut reference markings on the backside of the vinyl began to bleed thru (they are no longer marked in this fashion during manufacturing). Although well out of the warranty period, they replaced them FOR FREE. Would PUI have done the same? Probably not.
Legendary worked with me to manufacture a headliner out of very hard to find white NOS material. Took several tries with patterns & grains to get it right. Would PUI have done the same? Probably not.

Legendary's covers are not made from "off the shelf" vinyl. They heat press the original patterns/grains on the vinyl to exactly match the original grain (don't ask how I know this). If you need to purchase vinyl by the yard in the exact original grain & color it comes from Legendary. And yes there is a major price difference. Does PUI manufacture their own vinyl in the exact OEM pattern? Probably not.

I'm not here to endorse anyone, but if I need seat covers I buy from Legendary. I know I'm getting a quality product. For those that are happy with the quality of PUI covers, great.

As far as suppliers, yes I've purchased items from Dante's before & he is an EXCELLENT vendor. However, I've always gotten the best deals buying direct from Legendary (discount codes, at swap meet show specials, etc.).

[JB400]

Actually, it is a comparison between you and the manufacturers when you made this statement.

I'm tempted to make some myself. I know how to use a sewing machine and scissors. I hate arbitrarily high prices, just on principle.

[sanders7981]

Here's my take on the two, FWIW.

I purchased white seat covers from Legendary for my '70 back in the late '90's. About 6 years after installing them, the cut reference markings on the backside of the vinyl began to bleed thru (they are no longer marked in this fashion during manufacturing). Although well out of the warranty period, they replaced them FOR FREE. Would PUI have done the same? Probably not.
Legendary worked with me to manufacture a headliner out of very hard to find white NOS material. Took several tries with patterns & grains to get it right. Would PUI have done the same? Probably not.

Legendary's covers are not made from "off the shelf" vinyl. They heat press the original patterns/grains on the vinyl to exactly match the original grain (don't ask how I know this). If you need to purchase vinyl by the yard in the exact original grain & color it comes from Legendary. And yes there is a major price difference. Does PUI manufacture their own vinyl in the exact OEM pattern? Probably not.

I'm not here to endorse anyone, but if I need seat covers I buy from Legendary. I know I'm getting a quality product. For those that are happy with the quality of PUI covers, great.

As far as suppliers, yes I've purchased items from Dante's before & he is an EXCELLENT vendor. However, I've always gotten the best deals buying direct from Legendary (discount codes, at swap meet show specials, etc.).

Although I have PUI, and have seen legendary seats in person... I agree with you on this as far as quality.  But I chose PUI for cost factor and looks being just as good compared to the pics of legendary seats installed.  I was able to get them at dealer cost from a local guy who deals with camaro parts exclusively, but he has helped me out a lot ordering the sheet metal and interior stuff for my charger.  I did have that issue where PUI had forgotten to include a length of plastic listing wire for the rear top seat cover, but I fixed it myself instead of waiting on them to send out the piece.   Had I had more money to burn on the interior, I probably would have went with legendary too. 

[bill440rt]

Yep.
And there's nothing wrong with that at all.
Wasn't trying to bash or promote either company, just voicing my experiences.

[sanders7981]

Yep.
And there's nothing wrong with that at all.
Wasn't trying to bash or promote either company, just voicing my experiences.

I know you weren't bashing or promoting, I was just agreeing with you.  It's obvious that legendary has the market niche in interiors for MOPARS.  I am just glad there was a cheaper option in my case.  I figured in the long run, when I can afford it, I will get all leather seats installed to replace the vinyl...either through legendary or a custom shop.

[Ghoste]

For a guy who loves to tell everyone else they need to learn remedial reading skills you need to revisit the definition of arbitrary.  It implies random pricing, if you can provide evidence that Legendary uses a random price schedule then you are correct, if you can not supply evidence of Legendary's pricing practice then based upon your desire to pin your point of view on this word YOUR ENTIRE ARGUMENT AND ALL COUNTERPOINTS THEREAFTER ARE RENDERED INVALID.  Your inability to present any argument beyond a schoolyard " I know you are but what am I" is accepted as your concession to being wrong.
Please reply when you can present actual evidence to back up your statement that Legendary has an arbitrary pricing schedule.
Please, please, please reply when you can demonstrate that you can produse seat covers of equal quality for less cost.
Please do not waste our time with your misdirection and sleight of hand tactics to deflect from the obvious fact that you are the one in the wrong here and you are completely and utterly incapable of showing anything to the contrary.

[ws23rt]

I didn't know that PUI made Mopar seat covers. That's good to know. Of course, it seems that they are still way more expensive than they should be, which figures (about $250 for a pair of '70 Charger front seat covers, but it beats $439 a pair from Legendary).

I'm tempted to make some myself. I know how to use a sewing machine and scissors. I hate arbitrarily high prices, just on principle.

This is so funny.  You know how to use a sewing machine and scissors?  Don't we all.

A very important guestion is can you make the scissors and sewing maching sing?

It is odd that you say you can do the things that you saw others do because you saw them doing it. It may be true but they didn't just sit in front of the machine and things happened.

My first job out of high school was working at a shop that made primarily marine related canvas products. --boat tops--covers--seats--headliners-etc.  My job was to make the patterns for boat tops.  I would bend the frames, tie the frames up on the boat, stretch the fabric over the frames and mark the relevent points on the fabric. It took a long time working with the guy that taught me to learn how to do this.

The pattern that I would make went to the cutter another experienced person that trimmed and marked the material with match marking that the sewers understood.
The sewers assembled the parts with the proper tension between the parts so as to end with a smooth product.

It took time for me to get the hang of my task as it was for all the others that learned their trade.

Maxim--I'm sure you can do all the things needed to complete an interior for a car.  We all can---Are you implying that you can do it well the first time in a reasionable amount of time?  If that is the case than please start a thread on how it's done that we all can follow so we can do it for ourselves.   ---Oh the cost savings are high--  look out legendary we are going to make our own stuff.

[MaximRecoil]

Actually, it is a comparison between you and the manufacturers when you made this statement.

I'm tempted to make some myself. I know how to use a sewing machine and scissors. I hate arbitrarily high prices, just on principle.

Once again:

The cost comparison is not between Legendary and me (at least not the one that is the main point), it is between Legendary and PUI. Do you have some reason to believe that PUI has less "surcharges" than Legendary does?

It goes without saying that I could make them far cheaper than I could buy them. As for Legendary's prices being arbitrarily high, I compared their prices to PUI's prices for products in the same category. In other words, I didn't say nor imply that Legendary's prices being arbitrarily high because I could make seat covers for far less money; I said they are arbitrarily high because they obviously drastically exceed cost + a typical profit margin, and I used products from PUI to illustrate that point.

For a guy who loves to tell everyone else they need to learn remedial reading skills you need to revisit the definition of arbitrary.  It implies random pricing, if you can provide evidence that Legendary uses a random price schedule then you are correct, if you can not supply evidence of Legendary's pricing practice then based upon your desire to pin your point of view on this word YOUR ENTIRE ARGUMENT AND ALL COUNTERPOINTS THEREAFTER ARE RENDERED INVALID.  Your inability to present any argument beyond a schoolyard " I know you are but what am I" is accepted as your concession to being wrong.
Please reply when you can present actual evidence to back up your statement that Legendary has an arbitrary pricing schedule.
Please, please, please reply when you can demonstrate that you can produse seat covers of equal quality for less cost.
Please do not waste our time with your misdirection and sleight of hand tactics to deflect from the obvious fact that you are the one in the wrong here and you are completely and utterly incapable of showing anything to the contrary.

With regard to the part I bolded, this is yet another example of your now well-established reading difficulties. I didn't say that Legendary's prices are arbitrary, I said they are arbitrarily high, and I already explained what this means in a previous post. The rest of your post is either based on this false premise of yours, raises "points" which I've already addressed, or is a non sequitur (the part in blue is the most comical non sequitur I've seen in quite a while, given that I haven't said anything even remotely similar to "I know you are but what am I?").

It is odd that you say you can do the things that you saw others do because you saw them doing it. It may be true but they didn't just sit in front of the machine and things happened.

Once again, you've shown that reading isn't your strong point either. In other words, I never said, implied, suggested, nor even hinted that I "can do the things that I saw others do because I saw them doing it". I said:

"I learned to sew when I was about 4 years old; my mother was a professional seamstress, and she did plenty of upholstery work as well as making clothes and doing alterations."

Do you know what the word "learned" means?

Maxim--I'm sure you can do all the things needed to complete an interior for a car.

No, I can't. I've only said that I can make seat covers.

Are you implying that you can do it well the first time in a reasionable amount of time?

It would be the first time I specifically made automotive seat covers, but it would be far from the first time I've taken a seam ripper to some stitched product and used the pieces as a pattern to cut out new pieces and stitch them together in the manner of the original. It is not difficult, but it is tedious, which is why I'm only tempted to do it at this point (as I said in the first place).

[JB400]

 

I'll reword it for you:  What makes you think you can make you think you can make them cheaper by yourself compared to buying from a supplier like LAI or PUI?

[MaximRecoil]

I'll reword it for you: What makes you think you can make you think you can make them cheaper by yourself compared to buying from a supplier like LAI or PUI?

You didn't "reword" anything; you asked a completely new question, one which has already been answered in this thread no less.

[1965gp]

So has anyone compared PUI quality to Legendary? Seems the consensus is that Legendary is the best. Any side by side comparisons of material and craftsmanship?

[polywideblock]

my roadrunner came with a early  "custom " legendary   interior  that has to be 20 years old  

it's still so good that I'm using it again with the rebuild       no complaints about quality

got a quote from dante's for stock  interior  kit A  $1225   which seems to be an  average price   for a complete interior