I had this back for one month, one car show, then this, update 12/8/14

[Indygenerallee]

Wow!!  I said "OH SH!T" when I saw that first pic, ridiculous... There is no way the Charger hit that Tahoe (or Suburban) it would have crumpled the hell out of the back of it, thin bumpers and sheet metal on that GM.. Crock of crap!! 

[8WHEELER]

If the SUV was on a lift that was down, then that would raise the SUV thin ass bumber up above the Chargers. The new bumbers on any thing nowadays is their for looks only. The coner or bend of sheet any sheet metal is the strongest point. If he has not wipped away the tire marks, get the police to check them out. They should be able to fiquare out which way he was going, (i.e. hit the gas or goosed it to swing the ass end around). And as others have said that sucks, & get the cops involved, leave nothing to chance.     

I understand how its very hard to understand, believe me when he told me over the phone what happened, I thought my car was not going to be that bad, and I
thought the SUV would be worse, but no.  This is one of those situations, you truly have to see to believe, and evan then its hard to swallow. But all the evidence
he tells me, and the physical damage all lines up.



I have to tell everybody, since I am paralyzed, I have to use hand controls in my cars to drive. So there is a rod going down to the brake arm just above the pedal.
There is also a rod going down to the gas pedal arm next to the top of gas pedal. He is saying his foot got caught trying to go from the gas to the brake, and
that is why he used his left foot on the brakes to try and stop it, but as he said, it was to late.


I have seen all the evidence, and all the damage, and I trust he is telling me the truth. The only thing that I still question is the speed. I can only assume when
he got his foot caught trying to get his foot around that throttle rod, that he pushed the gas pedal more buy accident.

So when I got there and he explained it in person, I thought ooops, he may have never driven a car with hand controls, lets face it, there are probably only a
hand full of people on this site that have. So I asked him regarding that point ''a little scarred to tell you truth'' then he tells me sure, he has driven cars with
hand controls in them, infact he had two other cars in the shop that day with them, one was a Porsche and the other a Condillac. Boy was I glad he could not use
the lack of use of ever using hand controls as an out    

So I have my insurance involved now as well, they know everything, so all I have to say is, I want to take it to the shop I choose, and will not have to deal with
his insurance, State Farm will have to deal with them.

Dan

[1970Moparmann]

So sorry to hear this..... Don't settle until you get a trusted shop to deliver it the way it was!

[bill440rt]

The impact points on both vehicles could very well be legit. Charger fenders (and quarters) are big, but essentially hollow outer skins. Not much reinforcements behind them. The grille is a fragile piece of plastic that will crack if looked at the wrong way, and the mount panel behind it is not very strong structurally either.
That truck on the other hand has a bumper that is much stronger with heavier mounting brackets and a trailer hitch. If you look closely the bumper is up on the left side & driven forward into the quarter panel damaging the back corner. It is a strong part of the truck. The truck is much heavier than the Charger as well, so it very much could be compared to the lime '70 hitting the wall. I do agree the Charger must have had some momentum to sustain that damage though.

Whatever the case, it is irrelevant. What is important is getting that police report & beginning the journey getting that gorgeous Charger fixed back up again. 

[69charger2002]

Oh man Dan. So sorry to see your beautiful 68 get banged up like that. Keep us updated on it's progress. Hopefully the guy is stand up on his responsibility, he will likely freak when that estimate comes in.
Trav

[8WHEELER]

Thanks guys, I need the mental support as well, his agent never showed up today, so I wait till Monday now, but he was supposed to show up yesterday  

Dan

[hemi-hampton]

Thanks guys, I need the metal support as well, his agent never showed up today, so I wait till Monday now, but he was supposed to show up yesterday   

Dan

I hope that's not the start of the run around. I'd try to find good original parts over aftermarket. NOS would be nice but probably not realistic. Get the factory frame measurement & have them check radiator core support for out of alignment. A quick check you or anybody could do is use a tape measurer & check measurement from farthest bolt back on pass side inner top side fender to farthest bolt forward on drivers side inner top fender. then repeat on other side. This will form a X shape across top of engine compartment. Measurements should be the same on both sides. If not it will need pulling. Good luck. Leon.

[VegasCharger]

So sorry Dan, that is horrifying to say the least. Also depending on other people to be responsible for their actions is like a crap shoot. I hope this is NOT a long bumpy ride and props to Cooter for offering his help on the 68 grille parts 

Try to cheer up Dan 

[73rallye440magnum]

This is what he said he ran into, it was on the lift next to where he wanted to put my car. the lift was on the ground still. Its hard to
believe all this damage can happen to my car, and just scuff marks on the bumper, and it is bent slightly.............

If you look close, you can see a chunk of paint on the back bumper of the SUV.......

Dan

Am I the only one having a hard time visualizing this? He hit the left rear of this SUV with the left front of your Charger while turning left? If the Charger and the SUV were oriented the same, that might not be plausible. It looks like the primary impact was your driver side front fender. Does the height of your fender top match the SUV bumper height? Your door not being able to open would require a rather extensive transfer of energy. I don't like to accuse, so I'm hoping I just don't understand the sequence of events as outlined. This photo is almost parallel to the ground and helps to extend some clarity to where I would suspect the main impact occurred. I would speculate the line of action (diretion of travel) followed the driver side body line (hence your door not opening). Can you confirm any of this? Terribly sorry to see this conundrum.      Be safe, calm, and objective. Document everything and absolutely do not give the time of day to an insurance adjuster.

[73rallye440magnum]

Pretty easy to pick up a paint chip and drop it on a bumper that backed into a gravel pile two weeks ago. (Okay now im accusing, sorry)

[Patronus]

I audibly groaned when I saw the first photo. 

So, so sorry.

Ya, same here. I saw you're finished pic with the redlines and needed to prepare myself. Hang in there buddy. She'll be back.

[8WHEELER]

This is what he said he ran into, it was on the lift next to where he wanted to put my car. the lift was on the ground still. Its hard to
believe all this damage can happen to my car, and just scuff marks on the bumper, and it is bent slightly.............

If you look close, you can see a chunk of paint on the back bumper of the SUV.......

Dan

Am I the only one having a hard time visualizing this? He hit the left rear of this SUV with the left front of your Charger while turning left? If the Charger and the SUV were oriented the same, that might not be plausible. It looks like the primary impact was your driver side front fender. Does the height of your fender top match the SUV bumper height? Your door not being able to open would require a rather extensive transfer of energy. I don't like to accuse, so I'm hoping I just don't understand the sequence of events as outlined. This photo is almost parallel to the ground and helps to extend some clarity to where I would suspect the main impact occurred. I would speculate the line of action (diretion of travel) followed the driver side body line (hence your door not opening). Can you confirm any of this? Terribly sorry to see this conundrum.       Be safe, calm, and objective. Document everything and absolutely do not give the time of day to an insurance adjuster.

The SUV was on a drive on lift, in the down position. The problem with his foot on the gas happened as he was about 20ft behind the SUV, as he was getting ready to turn, his turn
was to the right, not the left.  Hope this helps.

Thanks for the interest. Yes I feel like exploding at somebody right now, and my 45 is still locked up  

Dan

[Cooter]

A HUGE misconception is that these cars won't fold up like a newer car, when in fact, I've seen it happen.
the strength of the metal in these cars was only marginally thicker than newer cars with crumple zones.

When hit correctly, alot of sheet metal damage can occur.

[lloyd3]

8-Wheeler:  Your explanation of the hand controls makes it more feasible to me. I'm not sure I'd know how to drive it in a tight spot any better than he did. We all know the beauty of big engines that produce lots of torque "immediately", but I can see where that could have a downside as well.  Ultimately, you know this guy alot better than any of us ever will. If you believe him, that's all that matters. That doesn't obviate his (and his insurance company's) responsibility to make it right.

[TPR]

Tough images to view. I hope this gets resolved quickly and you can put it all behind you.

Thanks guys, I need the mental support as well, his agent never showed up today, so I wait till Monday now, but he was supposed to show up yesterday  

Dan

That's the problem when situations like this occur which are not your fault and are out of your control.
It's OK to say, well no-one got hurt, it's only metal and it can be fixed -which is thankfully all true, but even when the law is on your side, there is no compensation for all the stress, heartache, loss of time, and that underlying worry that somehow you're gonna get screwed over.

Regardless of how the accident happened, he has claimed to be at fault so try to put your faith in your insurance company, after all that's what you've paid them for.
All the best.
TPR

[myk]

A HUGE misconception is that these cars won't fold up like a newer car, when in fact, I've seen it happen.
the strength of the metal in these cars was only marginally thicker than newer cars with crumple zones.

When hit correctly, alot of sheet metal damage can occur.

Isn't there a video somewhere featuring a '57 Chevy in a head-on crash test with a newer car; the result being that the 57 was obliterated and it was theorized that any passengers in the Chevy would've been killed? 

The legendary strength of older cars is really more mythical.  Like the man says the right hit will still cause plenty of damage...

[TUFCAT]

8-Wheeler:  Your explanation of the hand controls makes it more feasible to me. I'm not sure I'd know how to drive it in a tight spot any better than he did.

I agree.

[Cooter]

A HUGE misconception is that these cars won't fold up like a newer car, when in fact, I've seen it happen.
the strength of the metal in these cars was only marginally thicker than newer cars with crumple zones.

When hit correctly, alot of sheet metal damage can occur.

Isn't there a video somewhere featuring a '57 Chevy in a head-on crash test with a newer car; the result being that the 57 was obliterated and it was theorized that any passengers in the Chevy would've been killed? 

The legendary strength of older cars is really more mythical.  Like the man says the right hit will still cause plenty of damage...

59 Impala against new Impala.

[Charger-Bodie]

A HUGE misconception is that these cars won't fold up like a newer car, when in fact, I've seen it happen.
the strength of the metal in these cars was only marginally thicker than newer cars with crumple zones.

When hit correctly, alot of sheet metal damage can occur.

Isn't there a video somewhere featuring a '57 Chevy in a head-on crash test with a newer car; the result being that the 57 was obliterated and it was theorized that any passengers in the Chevy would've been killed? 

The legendary strength of older cars is really more mythical.  Like the man says the right hit will still cause plenty of damage...

59 Impala against new Impala.

Pretty sure the new car was a Malibu ....

[bill440rt]

The crash test was done with a 1959 Chevy Bel Air vs a 2009 Chevy Malibu.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtxd27jlZ_g

It was done to demonstrate the advancements in vehicle collision technology & safety.

Like I posted earlier, the outer skins of these cars are basically hollow. There is zero door crash protection whatsoever. Construction was with basic, mild cold-rolled steel. Strength in areas was achieved with thicker steel (frame rails, crossmembers, etc).
Newer cars utilize high strength, ultra high strength steels, crumple zones, etc. They are designed to transfer collision energy around the passenger compartment.
But they sure don't look as nice as older cars.  

Dan, I hope you get your car fixed properly. It is a beautiful car.

[Old Moparz]

The crash test was done with a 1959 Chevy Bel Air vs a 2009 Chevy Malibu.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtxd27jlZ_g

It was done to demonstrate the advancements in vehicle collision technology & safety.

Like I posted earlier, the outer skins of these cars are basically hollow. There is zero door crash protection whatsoever. Construction was with basic, mild cold-rolled steel. Strength in areas was achieved with thicker steel (frame rails, crossmembers, etc).
Newer cars utilize high strength, ultra high strength steels, crumple zones, etc. They are designed to transfer collision energy around the passenger compartment.
But they sure don't look as nice as older cars.  

Dan, I hope you get your car fixed properly. It is a beautiful car.

Bill, people don't read & love to argue so just accept it. 

[Mike DC]

     
The '59-'09 crash test video was a pretty heavily-stacked deck.  It was an offset frontal crash against an old X-framed GM car.  Try going straight on with a lot of muscle cars and you'd see different results.  The newer stuff would still win but the visual difference wouldn't be as dramatic.


The legendary strength of older cars goes along with their legendary heavy weight and legendary bad gas mileage.  It was true compared to the downsized cars that followed them for the next 15 years.  But since then the modern stuff has closed the gap.

[8WHEELER]

8-Wheeler:  Your explanation of the hand controls makes it more feasible to me. I'm not sure I'd know how to drive it in a tight spot any better than he did. We all know the beauty of big engines that produce lots of torque "immediately", but I can see where that could have a downside as well.  Ultimately, you know this guy alot better than any of us ever will. If you believe him, that's all that matters. That doesn't obviate his (and his insurance company's) responsibility to make it right.

The hand controls are not as difficult to work with as you may think. Six of my seven cars and trucks have them. I have been taking cars in for repairs for 28 years, and
all of these cars have them. It is much easier to use your feet than use the hand controls, most people are scared to use them, but I have to, I have no choice.

I took my red 68 in last week to have new mufflers installed. He drove it on and off the lift with no problems. or evan a comment about them. Like I said, he is very familiar
with the use of the controls, and had two other cars in the shop at the time this happened. He admits, he just messed up 

Believe me, I know the car can be fixed. But after working on this car for 13 years, and just getting it back one month, and now it feels like I am starting all
over again. And there was no front end damage when I bought it, so I will not have all the original factory parts on the car after being fixed. Plus the rad support
damage and K-Frame damage means, the hole front end will be off ''again'' .

And I don't talk about my personal problems, but I don't have very many years left physically to get in these cars and drive them. Being paralyzed for over 28 years
wears out your body. Plus my wife needs to help me get in the car, then get my wheel chair in the trunk, then help me get back out. And she has been helping me
do this for all this time. We are 53 now, and she has her problems as well. And I am close to the point of losing the physical movement to do this anymore, that is my
biggest problem    sorry to put my personal life out there, but it really is my bigest mental problem with this situation. But I will try my best   

Dan

[TUFCAT]

Thanks for sharing the personal stuff Dan.  We're like family around here so putting that out there helps us understand what you're going through.  You certainly have my respect!  

This would be extremely tough for anyone of us, and you're handling itr very well. The stress level on automotive restoration gets very high - as you already know so I wish you the best.  Also don't hesitate asking your fellow board members for help.    Unfortunately it doesn't look like I can help you (with no Charger parts and living in Michigan) ....but if I could, I would.    

[8WHEELER]

Thanks for sharing the personal stuff Dan.  We're like family around here so putting that out there helps us understand what you're going through.  You certainly have my respect!  

This would be extremely tough for anyone of us, and you're handling itr very well. The stress level on automotive restoration gets very high - as you already know so I wish you the best.  Also don't hesitate asking your fellow board members for help.    Unfortunately it doesn't look like I can help you (with no Charger parts and living in Michigan) ....but if I could, I would.    

Thanks, I don't think that many people here know about me. Heck most of my mopar club members have never seen my handicapped van  only my Chargers, I like it that way 

Dan