First start up, backfiring - FIXED

[71 SE3834V]

Why don't you let it be until the weekend and give me a chance to get my engine out and on the stand. If the weekends aren't good I've got some weekdays.
I've got a battery charger that will run a diagnostic on your battery, a small load tester (100 amp) to see how the battery handles a load and some other goodies. I don't know everything but I think we can eliminate alot of things.

I think you have an intermittent problem (duh!) and those are the hardest to diagnose. I once had an old snowplow truck that would quit running every time we took it out to plow. Leave it at worksite and come back to it a couple of days later and it would start. Drive it around and it was fine. Figured it was a moisture problem but until it quit for good I couldn't trace it down. Trying to remember it ended up being the ECM or the pick up coil. Old memory don't work so good anymore. That's why I have so many notes laying around here. Ha!

[Dino]

Alright, I'll ignore the starting issues and will remove my seats and old carpet so I can start installing the new carpet.  I did try to charge the battery more but when I removed the charger and let the battery be for a while, the voltage was back to around 12.5.  I have it disconnected so I can see if it loses any over night.  It didn't start after the last charge either so that was pretty much it for me, I don't know where to look so I will wait.   

Whatever works for you works for me, I'm home all day every day for the next few. 

[b5blue]

Dino this might help:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oi8sUE9XCgA

Dude you're freaking me out!  I found the exact same video on some web site when I googled how to properly charge a battery, and that was less than 5 minutes ago!   

I got ta get me a Solar B7 tester....

[Dino]

Dino this might help:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oi8sUE9XCgA

Dude you're freaking me out!  I found the exact same video on some web site when I googled how to properly charge a battery, and that was less than 5 minutes ago!   

I got ta get me a Solar B7 tester....

   


I was just thinking...not that they are, I have not checked, but if one of the wires at the starter is a little bit loose, can it be the cause of a weak spark?

[b5blue]

It would present extra draw while cranking.

[Dino]

That's what I thought.  Unfortunately they seem to be nice and tight so the problem lies elsewhere.  I'm just going to check all the wiring to make sure all is nice and snug but then I'll have to let it be for a while.

[b5blue]

  My bro had an old Ford van that cranked over but wouldn't start. I tried a bunch of stuff to fix it...kinda like your dealing with. Took it to a shop after using up all my help bro out for free tickets. Turned out the darn starter was drawing over 400amp to crank! 
  It was clear something was wrong but that was a new one for me! The van mostly just sat around for many many years too long. I'm not saying this is your problem also, just adding to your confusion. (I feel you pain buddy!  ) 

[Dino]

I honestly wouldn't mind it being a bad starter, even though it would be a pain to install with headers.  I just want to know what's going on.  I've had to miss the car for a year and now that it should be good to go this happens.  I know these things occur all the time, not everything can go smooth, but it's a bit frustrating to look at that car sitting in the garage again and not being able to take it out in this gorgeous weather.

Oh well, it'll get solved in the end.

[b5blue]

Honestly they tend to keep running if you keep running them.

[71 SE3834V]

Honestly they tend to keep running if you keep running them.

True that. I have another story about an old plow truck that sat around and would never start when needed. Use it all week and it was good. Leave it sit for a week or two, no start...

Dino, see if the voltage holds overnight w/the car disconnected. It would be good if the battery is charged FULLY before I get there. Does your charger have a 2 amp setting? Most common chargers will only charge up to 80-90% which will get you started but the battery is not fully charged. My battery charger will drop down to .8 or .9 amps to squeeze the last little bit into the battery to get it fully charged. This might be an issue.
I wanna see what the:
spark looks like,
check for flooding,
voltage is while cranking,
voltage at coil while cranking,
voltage at coil, starter disabled and key on start,

I know you've done most if not all of this but I think it would be good to have a 2nd set of eyes looking at it, write it all down and if we can't find the problem you can then post a complete set of our findings.
I'm working on a list of things to bring. Lemme know if you can think of anything. I know you have basic tools and jack/jack stands.
Do you still have your old distributor setup?
I have a 1 1/4" socket & 3/4" ratchet to roll the engine over

[Dino]

Honestly they tend to keep running if you keep running them.

True that. I have another story about an old plow truck that sat around and would never start when needed. Use it all week and it was good. Leave it sit for a week or two, no start...

Dino, see if the voltage holds overnight w/the car disconnected. It would be good if the battery is charged FULLY before I get there. Does your charger have a 2 amp setting? Most common chargers will only charge up to 80-90% which will get you started but the battery is not fully charged. My battery charger will drop down to .8 or .9 amps to squeeze the last little bit into the battery to get it fully charged. This might be an issue.
I wanna see what the:
spark looks like,
check for flooding,
voltage is while cranking,
voltage at coil while cranking,
voltage at coil, starter disabled and key on start,

I know you've done most if not all of this but I think it would be good to have a 2nd set of eyes looking at it, write it all down and if we can't find the problem you can then post a complete set of our findings.
I'm working on a list of things to bring. Lemme know if you can think of anything. I know you have basic tools and jack/jack stands.
Do you still have your old distributor setup?
I have a 1 1/4" socket & 3/4" ratchet to roll the engine over

I have an old manual 6/2 charger.  I charged it on 6 yesterday and the needle indicated 100%, but with these manual things I'd rather shut it off too soon than too late.  After it was done charging and the battery sat for a while, it came down to 12.53v.  I left it completely unhooked from the car and this morning it read 12.50v.  Do you want me to set it to 2 amp?  How long do I leave it on? 

I agree we should go over the list again, it's too easy for me to miss something.  Much of this is out of my league!

I have the complete old ignition setup here but the old wiring from the orange box is gone.  I should have enough wiring here to rig something up if needed.

I have a socket and ratchet but I think mine is 1/2" instead of 3/4".  I'd like to check my timing and see if the advance needs adjusting.  I can't recall if the Firecore kit came with springs or if it's a different system, I'll have to check the box.  I don't have a timing light but I do have a cheap HF vacuum gauge!   

I probably have all the hand tools we need but don't have timing light or battery testers.  I only have an old multimeter, but it works.  I also don't have a spark tester nor do I seem to have an old plug left to adapt into a tester, but I'll look again.

[71 SE3834V]

I don't know on the manual charger so don't bother charging it more. It will be interesting how long it takes for my charger to bring it up to full. We can hook it up first while going over other things.
I think your battery is holding. I just checked mine that's been sitting since Saturday. It's at 12.47v. 650cca, 3 yrs old.
Remind me to check the voltage again before charging.
Man I wish my point dist. would fit your block. It's already out of the car but I believe the length is shorter on the B block as apposed to your 440 RB. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong. I also have a rebuilt one sitting in a box. I'll look it up to see if it fits.
I'm planning on bringing the timing light. I probably have the same vac gauge.
3/4" ratchet will roll that 440 over a lot easier but it sure is heavy!
I have a spark tester in my road box.
I'll have to go through the tools to look for anything that'll come in handy. I think I'll shoot for saturday but I still don't have my lift completely together and haven't started on the stand so my goal of the engine coming out tomorrow is a bit behind.

Did you get that heli coil for your trans bolt? Fuel line recurved? Must have if you're driving it.

[71 SE3834V]

Dino this might help:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oi8sUE9XCgA

Dude you're freaking me out!  I found the exact same video on some web site when I googled how to properly charge a battery, and that was less than 5 minutes ago!   

I got ta get me a Solar B7 tester....

   


I was just thinking...not that they are, I have not checked, but if one of the wires at the starter is a little bit loose, can it be the cause of a weak spark?

Clean & tight connections are very important.

[firefighter3931]

Dirk, how many volts are you getting to the coil ? It sounds like you have a loose connection somewhere ...possibly at the bulkhead or ammeter guage ? 


Ron

[Troy]

The B and RB distributors are different and not interchangeable. I've started my cars with a lot less voltage. It's odd that it did work and now it doesn't which means there isn't a simple installation wiring snafu. Something shorting with the air cleaner lid on?

Troy

[71 SE3834V]

Dirk, how many volts are you getting to the coil ? It sounds like you have a loose connection somewhere ...possibly at the bulkhead or ammeter guage ?  


Ron

I think I or someone else asked him to check that, both cranking and w/the starter disabled (not cranking but key in the start position). I think the voltage was ok (I need to go back & reread this) but this is why I want to run these tests and record them myself then we can look at the big picture. I have a feeling the coil's not getting power in the start position all the time. What puzzles me is why it won't fire with a jumper straight to the coil +. But as I stated above we need to confirm if it has spark or not during each of these tests.
If it is intermittent then that's a whole nother ball of wax. I'm just hoping that when I get there it doesn't fire up. Then again if it does then we go for a ride!   Damn, he said he was gonna pull the seats out.  

[Dino]

I forget what the coil voltage was.  It's about 11.5 with key on I believe but I forget what it is while cranking. 

A short is very likely.  I really hope the bulkhead connector is not the issue but I'll mentally prepare to remove it tomorrow. 

If it fires up, it won't take long to put those seats back in, carpet or not!