Modern Muscle cars in 30-40 years?

[6spd68]

In a nutshell, we're at a point where if a computer or other electronics fail, you may not even be able to shut your $#&@ door!

Esta chinga loco 

[Aero426]

A qualified person with an oscilloscope and schematics can fix most any computer problem, as long as the fix doesn't require an impossible-to-get custom IC. The main difference is who people will have to go to for a fix; it won't be typical mechanics, it will be electrical engineers or talented electronics hobbyists. Someone like Mark Spaeth (Ph.D. from MIT in electrical engineering) or Jrok could fix most any computer, even if they weren't specifically familiar with it; and if something prevented them from fixing it, such as it being sealed in epoxy or needing custom ICs, they could design and manufacture a replacement from scratch, as long as they knew what functions it needed to perform. I doubt many people would go to such lengths though, especially for today's soulless cars.

That is what is happening now in the late model Ferrari world when the factory gives up support.   We are talking 1990's models where components and whatever is in the black box has to be reverse engineered  by the aftermarket.     Certainly there will be a market for some of this if the car is worth it.     

[myk]

Yeah well that's fine for people who have the money to have someone "reverse engineer"  or custom build a piece of electronics for their car.  The rest of us are in the junkyards getting pieces no better than what we already have or paying scalper prices for pieces that are no better than what we already have...

[Aero426]

I personally just think people wont need to, Newer cars dont rust like the older oncs did, plus, people i see with modern muscles take rather good care with them, How many late model musclecars do you see with even a dent on them? personally i cant count any, They may simply last 30-40 years or so, if their owners love them enough 

Newer cars will rust through.    You just haven't given them enough time yet.    The stuff they put on the roads here is so corrosive.  

I do agree that a lot of modern muscle is being pampered.   I don't think the moderns cars are good "investment" for the point you make that enough will still be around.    They won't be particularly rare (example, the first 2008 Challengers with the automatics).   But there will be some exceptions.    

[Cooter]

 The real problem comes on these new cars with EVERYTHING being computer controlled.   The climate control systems,  dashboard electronics, and all the touch screen crap is a potential nightmare.   Don't expect the factory to come to the rescue.    

tell me about it...the TIPM (the totally integrated something something that controls the keyfobs, windows, etc ) on the '10 Challenger took a dump a couple of weeks ago. Basically bricked the car, and it wasn't even the main computer (the PCM). Had to get it towed to the dealer and it even took them a day or two to figure it out.

Here's the beauty of it (and its the little things like this that make new cars a PITA): the current Challengers have this neat feature that automatically rolls down the windows about 1/4" when the door opens, then rolls them back up when it shuts so that the glass seals up nicely into the weatherstripping. Well, since the TIPM controls the windows, this was not working, and the windows were stuck in the fully up position...which means I couldn't shut my doors completely because the top of the window couldn't clear the weatherstripping. It wasn't a big deal because it happened at my work in a secured parking structure and I was able to get a tow truck right away, but if it had happened somewhere else less accessible (I was planning on driving the car to Vegas the next day!) where I may have had to leave the car for some time, it could have been a safety/security issue.

In a nutshell, we're at a point where if a computer or other electronics fail, you may not even be able to shut your $#&@ door!

But....but....you still bought it. Possibly for big bucks (over $35k)
until the BUYING public stops buying all the latest computer controlled sh*t, they will continue to put em on there. I have two 12 year old vehicles. One has electronic dash. When it breaks, I simply won't fix it.
the other one let me down yesterday by blowing the AM2 fuse. Just shut off going down the road on the way to work. Yet, my gas guzzling 1969 Charger got me there and back.it's not the factories/manufacturer's fault there's computer controlled everything. It's the BUYING publics.

[Ponch ®]

 The real problem comes on these new cars with EVERYTHING being computer controlled.   The climate control systems,  dashboard electronics, and all the touch screen crap is a potential nightmare.   Don't expect the factory to come to the rescue.    

tell me about it...the TIPM (the totally integrated something something that controls the keyfobs, windows, etc ) on the '10 Challenger took a dump a couple of weeks ago. Basically bricked the car, and it wasn't even the main computer (the PCM). Had to get it towed to the dealer and it even took them a day or two to figure it out.

Here's the beauty of it (and its the little things like this that make new cars a PITA): the current Challengers have this neat feature that automatically rolls down the windows about 1/4" when the door opens, then rolls them back up when it shuts so that the glass seals up nicely into the weatherstripping. Well, since the TIPM controls the windows, this was not working, and the windows were stuck in the fully up position...which means I couldn't shut my doors completely because the top of the window couldn't clear the weatherstripping. It wasn't a big deal because it happened at my work in a secured parking structure and I was able to get a tow truck right away, but if it had happened somewhere else less accessible (I was planning on driving the car to Vegas the next day!) where I may have had to leave the car for some time, it could have been a safety/security issue.

In a nutshell, we're at a point where if a computer or other electronics fail, you may not even be able to shut your $#&@ door!

But....but....you still bought it. Possibly for big bucks (over $35k)
until the BUYING public stops buying all the latest computer controlled sh*t, they will continue to put em on there. I have two 12 year old vehicles. One has electronic dash. When it breaks, I simply won't fix it.
the other one let me down yesterday by blowing the AM2 fuse. Just shut off going down the road on the way to work. Yet, my gas guzzling 1969 Charger got me there and back.it's not the factories/manufacturer's fault there's computer controlled everything. It's the BUYING publics.

fair argument, but it misses the point of this thread.

1) I did buy it, but not with expectations that it will become a collector car
2) People buy things (cars among them) for more than utilitarian reasons: looks, etc. It's why at some point you bought a Charger instead of a station wagon that would also get you from Point A to Point B
3) If people stopped buying things because they are new, complicated, and may fail - it would stop innovation and all sorts of industries and economies would come to a halt. My smartphone acts up every now and then, but it sure as hell is much more useful than the rotary phone my grandma had back in the day.

[MaximRecoil]

My smartphone acts up every now and then, but it sure as hell is much more useful than the rotary phone my grandma had back in the day.

But not nearly as cool, and not even in the same universe with regard to reliability. Those old Western Electric phones were built like a tank.

[Mike DC]

In a nutshell, we're at a point where if a computer or other electronics fail, you may not even be able to shut your $#&@ door!

Well, there goes any desire I had for a modern Challenger.  

Can you even close, and open the doors, when the car has a dead battery?  

-------------------------------

Mopar should be in deep shit for this because it's probably just a matter of time before it gets somebody killed.  Mopar will probably end up sued and I will cheer for the plaintiff when it happens.  

A car is not a laptop.  It puts lives at risk when things get unreliable.  Over the last 15 years it has become pretty clear that the auto industry is going to have to learn this the hard (class-action) way.  


I'm not for stopping innovation.  Just stopping idiotic & dangerous ideas.

[Cooter]

Again, until people stop buying all the latest trick bullsh*t, they will get worse. The minute someone gave 'feedback' to Chrysler and hadda 'wish list' for things like dual climate controls, notice how quick it became standard equipment??
CAUSE IT SELLS....

[Mike DC]

     
The first owner buys these things.   The 3rd owner deals with all the problems. 

[Aero426]

     
The first owner buys these things.   The 3rd owner deals with all the problems. 

And the factory is in the business of selling new cars with a warranty.     

[MaximRecoil]

I guess we'll know in 30 or 40 years.  I truly hope the hobby continues but I think anyone who believes these cars won't rust out or that anyone with a scope and schematic can fix it will be proven wrong.  (this is the part where Maxim smugly dismisses me for daring to disagree with him but since neither of us can prove out position for a few decades I choose to just say whatever will be will be)

Except, you didn't disagree with me, given that I never claimed that "these cars won't rust out" or that "anyone with a scope and schematic can fix it", and why would I make such asinine claims, given that neither of them are true? I see newer vehicles rusted out all the time, especially pickup trucks, and relatively few people even know what to do with an oscilloscope and/or schematics, much less can use them to actually fix something. In my post I said "a qualified person", which is about as far from "anyone" as you can get, and I included examples of problems they couldn't fix, and pointed out that in such cases, there exists people who could create a functionally-equivalent replacement from scratch.

I suggest you enroll in a remedial reading class. 

[Ghoste]

I shall do that right away if it pleases you oh great and wise one.

[Ghoste]

On second thought, no I don't think I will. 

[MaximRecoil]

So you're the one in the wrong (i.e., you completely misrepresented what I posted), and instead of owning up to it, you think it's time to go into "smartass mode"? How old are you?

[Aero426]

So you're the one in the wrong (i.e., you completely misrepresented what I posted), and instead of owning up to it, you think it's time to go into "smartass mode"? How old are you?

We all got your drift.

[Ponch ®]

In a nutshell, we're at a point where if a computer or other electronics fail, you may not even be able to shut your $#&@ door!

Well, there goes any desire I had for a modern Challenger.  

Can you even close, and open the doors, when the car has a dead battery?  

-------------------------------

Mopar should be in deep shit for this because it's probably just a matter of time before it gets somebody killed.  Mopar will probably end up sued and I will cheer for the plaintiff when it happens.  

A car is not a laptop.  It puts lives at risk when things get unreliable.  Over the last 15 years it has become pretty clear that the auto industry is going to have to learn this the hard (class-action) way.  


I'm not for stopping innovation.  Just stopping idiotic & dangerous ideas.

you could probably shut the door, you just have to force it. I didn't want to because I didn't wanna risk messing up the window or even breaking it.

[Mike DC]

 
But could you still OPEN the door from inside if the car lost electrical power?  Without needing much extra muscle to do it?   

[SRT-440]

Yes the new challengers windows go down a tad everytime u enter or exit...if the battery is dead u can still get in and out..it just will hit the weatherstripping at the top...it's not a death trap....and it's by no means hard to do. I do agree that in 40 yrs things like that will need attention...or ppl will just work around it...

[Ponch ®]

 
But could you still OPEN the door from inside if the car lost electrical power?  Without needing much extra muscle to do it?    

yeah, the doors still have ol' school door lock knobs just in case. Like SRT said, these issues are going the be the little things that will drive someone insane in 40 years when they malfunction.

And yes, im sure the electronics/computers in cars WILL be fixable in some way or another...but if they're supposed to be collector cars, and if even now people obsess over having date-correct spark plug wires in their collector cars....

[polywideblock]

so when are we going to hear of people buying up spares of  all the computer control gear etc.  and stashing it in readiness for the big "restoration one day "   

or will they  limit supply so you'll just buy a new one  

[myk]

so when are we going to hear of people buying up spares of  all the computer control gear etc.  and stashing it in readiness for the big "restoration one day " :scratchch

or will they  limit supply so you'll just buy a new one 

I've started doing it for my '97 Z28, '98 Mustang GT and '99 Ram Air F-Bird.  The PCM's, BCM's and other various control modules are readily available but there's no telling when that will come to an end.  I think people with 80's and 90's cars should be ok; they're not that different from 60's/70's muscle but with some electronic regulation.  Newer cars like the 5th 'Gen Camaro and new 5.0 Mustangs are as much technological as they are powerful; heaven forbid the person that has to restore that stuff...                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             

[6spd68]

Newer cars like the 5th 'Gen Camaro and new 5.0 Mustangs are as much technological as they are powerful; heaven forbid the person that has to restore that stuff...

Having driven them, I couldn't agree more...  An amazing drive, but I don't think I'd want to dive into those electronics after they've sitting behind a barn for 15-20 years...

[PrisonHack]

  I had forgotten I started this thread during a long boring O/T shift. I remember in '85-'86 when the sky was falling because Ford was putting fuel injection on the mustang. At that time magazines were predicting the end of do it yourself mods because of the complex fuel injection, of course as it turned out it actually made the cars easier to modify. Now I know todays electronics are light years ahead of an EEC-IV set up, but people are also more tech savy now days. Being able to program parameters from a lap top might become a more valuble skill than turning wrenches soon. I think like others have said the availability of replacement parts could turn out to be the major downfall on the modern cars.

[SRT-440]

Being that I'm in the process of putting a modern 392 hemi in a b body....U can buy full wiring harnesses, ECU's, injectors...EVERYTHING. It's all plug and play now..no laptops..no drama...it can all be had now and 30 years from now will be no different. 

The difference in today and yesterday is the VOLUME of vehicles being made...some will be scrap, some will be collectable. A 2008-2015+ SRT8 Challenger WILL be collectable in years to come..as will GT's, GT500's, and SS's. Just the fact ppl take better care of cars these days will make a difference...Chargers, Road Runners, and cudas were just left for dead out in a yard or field and all it prolly needed was a new battery..LOL.

My 2004 Hemi Ram has 200K miles on it and only has had regular oil changes and spark plugs replaced... and is ten years old...hasn't lost any power and doesn't smoke...only problem it has is it needs the rotors turned.

I've seen what an old school motor does at 200K miles...and it's not much. 
But, time will tell...


I saw a '90's Toyota Supra (Fast and Furious model) with antique tags...still looked alive and well.