How many C-500 4spd cars were built?

[Highwaystar]

It seems the 392 total production numbers are an agreed number by most, but how many were 4 speed cars? It seems I was researching last year and came up with 33 total. Is there anyone that confirm that? Also what is the breakdown of 440 vs. 426 cars with 4 speeds? if that is available.
How about 440 vs. 426 in total production of C-500's? I assume most all 4 speeds were Dana 60 equipped, was there an option to order a 4 speed car with an 8 3/4 Rear?

[Ghoste]

Total four speed is just over 50 with about an even split betweeen Hemi and 440.  No option to get the 8.75 behind the four speed.  Just under 90 of the 392 total were Hemi cars.
This is assuming the 392 and other published numbers are correct.

[hemi68charger]

Numbers from way back showed there were something like 27 440 4speed and 29 426 4speeds........ But, I do believe those numbers are low........... At least for the 440 versions........ Danny would have a better grasp of this....

[Highwaystar]

Great info guys. Maybe the 33 number I came up with was for 440 cars. That sounds closer to what I'm seeing here. It looks to me around 15% of the Charger 500's were 4 speeds. whether its 1 of 392, or 1 of 50, or 1 of 33. Why do you think the Charger 500 isn't bringing better money than cars with higher production numbers? Is it the fact most hobbyist do not know what they are?

[Ghoste]

Thats the biggest reason, far overshadowed by the Daytona.  A lot of people find both cars unattractive but because of the Daytona legend are still willing to step up to them.  It also raced for a short time before the Daytona came along and with less success against the Talladega and Spoiler II.

[hemi68charger]

Great info guys. Maybe the 33 number I came up with was for 440 cars. That sounds closer to what I'm seeing here. It looks to me around 15% of the Charger 500's were 4 speeds. whether its 1 of 392, or 1 of 50, or 1 of 33. Why do you think the Charger 500 isn't bringing better money than cars with higher production numbers? Is it the fact most hobbyist do not know what they are?

The C500 is and will always be, to the collector masses, a redheaded step-child. It has far less of a visual appeal than a regular production Charger R/T or Daytona. Having owned two C500's, I have heard it all........ The C500 is like the 66-67 Chargers, you either love 'em, or hate 'em............

[Ghoste]

And as someone who loves them, I've never really understood that.  It's all too true though.

[held1823]

many people assume the 500 to be a lesser car than an r/t (rather than an r/t itself), as is the case on the '70 models. that misconception might play a large role.

you often see comments about the 500 grille, but rarely about the rear glass. i must be the oddball, as i never cared for the tunnel look of a regular charger. if not for the aero versions, i'd take a coronet r/t or super bee over a charger any day. my love of the '68 coronet grille might be why i prefer the 500's look over the hidden headlights.

imho, the only way to top an A12 car, is with an A11.

forgive me of my heresy, charger brethren...

[Mytur Binsdirti]

The C500 is and will always be, to the collector masses, a redheaded step-child. 

Are you saying that they are the Carrot Top of cars?

[Ghoste]

That would be the AMC Pacer.

[Mytur Binsdirti]

That would be the AMC Pacer.

Even the lowly Pacer looks better than Carrot Top.

[Highwaystar]

I was hooked on them, when I saw my first at the age of 15? It was a rusted up mess, even at that time in the early 80's, but it was cool and bad ass looking. They guy had a few Superbirds there as well wrecked up, but I gravitated to the 500. I was told at that time it was a much rarer car than the Superbirds by the owner, and it was the first car he was anxious to restore. Not sure if it was a 440 car or 426 car, but to him he had the Holy Grail.
I still stick with the general public don't know what they are. I call it the prototype to the Daytona with less production numbers = more valuable, and you don't have to worry about catching your front bumper on a curb.

[XS29LA47V21]

The C500 is and will always be, to the collector masses, a redheaded step-child. 

Are you saying that they are the Carrot Top of cars?

Sure to a Chevy collector maybe..LOL    thank you sir can I have another.

After all it is a 69 Charger... I like seeing a RR, Bees and those Ebody's like the next guy, but have I eyes for those charger lines.

[Mytur Binsdirti]

While we're on a "how many 500" subject, how many came with air conditioning?

[Ghoste]

Of the ones in the 69 Registry, there are less than a dozen with air conditioning doing a quick glance check.

[RallyeMike]

Ghost: OF curiousity, how many 500s are actually in the registry vs. the 392 number or the count that Danny has?

Speaking of AC 500's, I saw one yesterday. It was in my garage 

[Ghoste]

I have 128 registered, I need to touch base with Danny.

[XS29LA47V21]

Ghost: OF curiousity, how many 500s are actually in the registry vs. the 392 number or the count that Danny has?

Speaking of AC 500's, I saw one yesterday. It was in my garage 

    me too and today again . 

Thought old number of AC cars was 19 and was told by the "everyone now hate national register guru guy" of 32ea.  The one I sold was an F8AC car.  The 32ea seems like a minimum number, but I personally think it might be more because of so many RTs and RTSEs that have AC.  Thought the old 392 number of 500s was replace by the updated number of something like 542 or so.

[69_500]

Ok. Sorry guys, very busy around here with travel baseball for my son, and making preparations for an arriving baby girl in september. But I had a few minutes to sit down at my computer and look tonight instead of just trying to go from memory.

I have information on 27 500's that have A/C. That doesn't really answer any questions on how many there are, just how many I have seen.

The production figure is a whole long discussion. For years I heard the 392. Then I heard 548. Basing it off of the ones that I have located over the years, I am more inclined to think that there are probably closer to the 548 number than 392. I have located 275 so far. Have a few leads of a few others that I hope to get to go view in the next few months.

91 HEMI 500's are accounted for as well.

54 total 4 speeds that I can verify. that includes HEMI's and 440's.

23 HEMI 4 speeds that I can account for.
31 4 speed 440 cars I can account for.

Keep in mind that I am only counting ones I have either a fender tag, broadcast sheet, or have seen the stamping of VIN on a trasmission pad. There are cars that are 4 speeds, that do not have any fender tag, or sheet, and its not a numbers matching tranny so I can not verify with certainty that it was a 4 speed car to start with so I do not include those in totals. Of the 275 cars I have information on, there are only 134 that I have complete information on. Well not complete, because I have broadcast sheets for 65 cars, but at least full fender tag info for the 134.

[Highbanked Hauler]

  Well Danny I can assure you mine is an original 4spd as mine has the  (s) struck over with an X on the trans and the engine.

[500Jon]

Great thread Guys!

A12 over A11???
Its all about taste methinks.
Owned both and an A12 Auto Bee with bench seat and column change didn't do it for me!
440 4-speed A11 C500 deffo does it for me!!!
Galen told me 10 years back, 26 Hemi-4's and 25 440-4's.
Obviously that has changed a little, but over 540/500's made, I find that hard to believe?
Seen Daytona's and SuperBird's all over the World, only ever seen a handful of C500's
(Its the 21st Century, get online its easy to find out what 1969-Nascars are methinks?)
I looked at a 1990 Hemmings this morning and the first ad is a 69-C500.
No price unfortunately.
I'm sure all Ford guys know exactly what a C500 is.

Well pleased to own the only 4-speed C500 outside the US.
Tried to buy a Daytona off Galen in 1990 and he don't sell to Limeys LOL!!!
500Jon

[held1823]

A12 over A11???

re-read it

[69_500]

  Well Danny I can assure you mine is an original 4spd as mine has the  (s) struck over with an X on the trans and the engine.

One of these days we will find your broadcast sheet 

[CornDogsCharger]

I've been working on one of the few 440-4spd Super Track Pak C500's!  Danny, do you have a break down on how many had the Super Track Pak... at least in your records?

Justin
"CornDog"

[Highbanked Hauler]

  Well Danny I can assure you mine is an original 4spd as mine has the  (s) struck over with an X on the trans and the engine.

One of these days we will find your broadcast sheet 

  I'd almost bet its in a Hemi Car. You figure there were at least 3 blue on blue cars at  Creative at the same time for the  SE 's sheet to make it into my car and the SE didn't get my build sheet  it got somebody elses.

[Scaregrabber]

I much prefer the C500 over the Daytona. I'm not sure why, I think it's because it was the first Mopar body truly designed for NASCAR and I like function over form. Nothing on a 500 that didn't have to be there.

Sheldon

[Mytur Binsdirti]

Speaking of AC 500's, I saw one yesterday. It was in my garage 

Well, when you get sick of it, just let me know.   

[Ghoste]

For some reason Mytur I thought you hated the 500's?

[Mytur Binsdirti]

For some reason Mytur I thought you hated the 500's?

Nope, not at all.

[Highwaystar]

I will be looking to win the Hemi motor giveaway at Chryslers at Carlisle this year to add a little Pop to my C-500. It would be nice to put the original motor on a stand for awhile, and run the piss out of a Hemi.

[500Jon]

Hi Charger Folks,

Being from the land of 'stick-cars' we Brits don't understand why the Nascar homologation cars weren't ALL 4-speeds?
This goes for AAR's and T/A's too!
If customers ordered them as Automatic's then thats a different.
Here we would expect maybe 5% of racey/muscle type cars would as Auto's.

Being a regular visiter to dragstrips I can understand the selection of a 727.
But will look forwards to 'banging gears' on the 1320 some time soon.
There only a couple of Mopar circuit racers here, early Cuda's.
Hopefully one day I will be able to run at Rockingham UK with my C500.
If all goes well I might try Brands Hatch or even Silverstone LoL.

Best wishes 500Jon

[hemi68charger]

Hi Charger Folks,

Being from the land of 'stick-cars' we Brits don't understand why the Nascar homologation cars weren't ALL 4-speeds?
This goes for AAR's and T/A's too!
If customers ordered them as Automatic's then thats a different.
Here we would expect maybe 5% of racey/muscle type cars would as Auto's.

...
Best wishes 500Jon

It was probably from a marketing point of view. Not everyone wanted a manual tranny, especially since autos were coming into their own in the performance arena as well. Even though they had to make a limited production number, they still needed to sell them.

[Ghoste]

Not to mention they were more profitable both new and as used cars.

[500Jon]

Good points made there Charger Folks!

If Nascar was so popular, why was it so hard to sell C500's stick or auto.
I could understand if they was only Hemi-cars but 440 cars were in full-flow by 69!
The Gas-crisis was still 3/4 years away.

Anyone who says that the C500 is ugly or a ruined R\T must be MAD!
A filled in back window which is undetectable from the side and a flush grille, in no way spoils the lines of a 69 Charger!!!(also udetectable from side view).

A Daytona really ruins the lines of a 69 Charger LoL!
And very hard to take a nosecone off for a daily driver too.

C500Jon

[Ghoste]

The 500's actually sold quite well as did the Daytona's, urban lore to the contrary.  The Superbirds took a little longer to move but there were more of them in a market that was maybe used after the Daytona and not quite the problem magazine writers make it out to be.  They make it seem like half of them sat for years and half of those got the nose and wings removed.  The truth wasn't quite that drastic.

[ws23rt]

It's interesting to go through this thread cause it brings back memorys from 35 years ago.

That was the time I bought my 69 hemi coronet. The guy I bought it from had a C500 hemi 4sp and told me his information was it was one of three.

At that time these cars were very rare and guys like me were looking everywhere for them in any condition.

So to hear that their may have been ten times as many hemi 4sp C500s is good news. But my question is where are they? Maybe 50% gone forever?  If that is a good guess than maybe 15 are still out there.

Now they may be as rare as I thought they were 35 years ago.

[Ghoste]

It could be better than 50%.  The usual survival rate everyone quotes is 20% but others on here have raised very valid points about the aero cars having a much higher than usual survival rate.  It'd be nice to find it was higher than normal than anyway.

[ws23rt]

I like to think the survival rate is high and if so it may be because of who the original owners were as well as the second owners grabbing something historical to save.

[69_500]

If the survival rate is not high, then they sure as heck made a ton of them. I can account for 276 of them. So if the number is really 392 thats a very high rate. If the number is the 548 its still close to 50%.

[500Jon]

Hi 69_500,

Very valid point there!
Well over 50% and closer to 75% does hint towards a higher C500 build number indeed.
How many Daytona's are left?

There are two C500's in the UK, are they on your list?
The only other one is/was the white Hemi-car.
Was here around ten years back and belonged to Carlos Monteverdi.
He also had the black Hemi Daytona and a blue 440 Superbird.
Rare Performance Mopars (RPM) here in the UK sourced all his Mopars for him.
Not sure what cars he has now as he is a secretive collector.
Maybe more C500's in Europe, but not seen or heard of any?

My vin is 248662, thought it was the last 440 C500 '4-speed' built.
Apparently there is another 440 auto after mine and the last C500 was a Hemi 4-speed.

I still believe my car to be the missing Crower promo C500 owned by Don Garlits.
Hopefully one day he can confirm or deny this, once he is over his grieving.

Best wishes C500Jon

[69_500]

Just from memory but 248663 is a Hemi 500, but it's an AT on the column car. 258665 is a 440 car. 248666 is a 440 car. And heard there is a 248667 but not seen anything on that car just yet, at this point it is only a rumor to me.

[odcics2]

 a few points in no particular order...

Nascar was popular in the Southeast part of the country.
There was an oddball, here and there, in other parts that followed it.  (me, for one.)

Charger Daytonas were a sell out.   I personally saw only ONE in 1970 in the Detroit area.    The guy
lived about a 1/2 mile away and used to pull a boat with it!!   
 
At the 1971 State Fair closed circuit showing of the Daytona 500, there was a sublime painted Daytona with a white wing in the parking lot!

1970 was a recession year.    In spite of that, I saw many Birds around!   (5-6 = "many")
Who could miss bright colored "Lifesavors" on wheels?

The new 'cuda ate into Road Runner sales, including the Birds.
The new Challenger ate into Charger sales.   

There was one Charger 500 in the neighborhood, down a street or so.  I
didn't "notice" another for decades after.  I say notice because they don't stand out
like a winged car.   

[500Jon]

Nice reply odcics2!

Funny you should say that about 'not noticing' cars.
I lived in Central London in the 70's and was a car-nut.
Mainly into English Fords for my sins LoL.
There was a Lime-Green Superbird in a neighbouring suburb.(unkown to me)
The first time remember seeing it (BIRD) was on the way to a race-meet in North London going over a Freeway-flyover like a spaceship!!!
I asked arond where this 'spaceship' lived and was shocked to find out it was less than a mile away!
It was a revelation and from that day to this 'Wingcars have been a fascination.
Being a 'stick-car' kinda guy I always wanted a 'stick-Wingcar'.
Life was cruel to me, as I missed out several times on Bird's and Tona's, but none were manuals!
Then a chance trip to LA and I luck into a STICK-C500.
God moves in mysterious ways?

''Everything comes to those who wait''.

God Bless America, and Mopars!

C500Jon aka 'the LiMeY'

[moparchris]

I get to see a Hemi C500 4 speed everyday in my garage... heck they can't be THAT rare

[Highwaystar]

I'm here to help Moparchris. I will take that Hemi C-500 off your hands, so you can have the feeling of "How hard they are to find". 
I don't want you to feel left out.

[69_500]

Chris, if your tired of the 4 speed trade it to tom for his Hemi at 500

[white]

I have only seen 6 c500's since 1988. And only 2 of them were for sale, I bought one last year. I have no plans on selling, to hard to find.

[talkiemopar]

Jeff, Looks real good.   Rick.

[white]

Thank you Rick. Your cars are so cool my son is still talking about them.I had a really great time talking to you. I hope to see you again soon, but this time I will make sure my schedule is more free.

[Highwaystar]

Nice color on the 500 Jeff.
Anyone on here taking there C-500 to Chryslers at Carlisle 2014? I was thinking about putting mine in the show field this year. I don't recall seeing many ever there, except for the nice blue one from NC, but I could be wrong.

[white]

Thanks, The color kinda grew on me it looks neat in the sun and everyone that looks at it says the color is cool. I cant bring the 500 to Carlisle as I am replacing entire wiring from bumper to bumper and am not done yet. I like your car highwaystar I remember it up for sale about 3 months after I bought mine. 

[500Jon]

High Stress Wingcars!

Most Folks I've met with wingcars/69-500's are well stressed about owning them!
I am too, it creeps up on you and you feel anxious about its rarity.
I know of only one UK Daytona that goes out to very meet, and is even drag-raced!
Looks like a plie of Poo, BUT the owner loves it and doesn't care what we think!!!
I always want Folks to admire my Mopars but now I have a C500 its a worry indeed.
How good does it need to be???
$5000 paint jobbie or $10,000?
How many 'NOS' parts do need to find and fit?
Would like to drive it as a rolling resto, but will Folks be upset with me?

My friend also has a C500 and is a perfectionist.
Now this is a different problem I believe?
He won't want anyone picking holes in his car, so it will be perfect(as poss.)
It will take alot of money and a lifetime to complete!(15 years already).
Once its done it won't see Tarmac or even Sunlight LoL!!!
His car is almost ready to drive and he says it needs another $10,000 for finishing parts!

Oh dear, Oh dear, what have I done?
Careful what we wish for!
Looking for a 318 69 Charger, grocery getter LOL!

500Jon

[nascarxx29]

In my collection old vintage dealer ads I didnt see alot of charger 500 listed.Bird and daytona ads are plentiful

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,76764.0.html
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,89995.0.html

[nascarxx29]

Sunroof?

[69_500]

Dave what state was that from? Missouri? And in what year?

[nascarxx29]

From Same MO dealer Hemi genos daytona sold from.Gotta check the date
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,76975.msg864958.html#msg864958

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=rQtdAAAAIBAJ&sjid=QVoNAAAAIBAJ&pg=4392,3675262&dq=1969-charger-500&hl=en

[Highwaystar]

In reply to 500Jon. There is a always a certain nervousness about driving a expensive older car that you know part availability is hard to come by. At least the expensive cars of today have replacement parts available, but it's more about being guarded that your labor of love for the last xx amount of years is on the road, and there are 1000's of people who don't give a shit, and will run you over. There are also those that want to drive as close as they can to give you a thumbs up, and try to talk to you at 65 MPH. My intentions from the get go was to drive my car often. no trailer queen, and it is not, but it is not over restored either. It is just a low mileage well taken care of car. If it was a fresh Rotissorie restore. I would probably not enjoy, and drive it as much, but then you are more proud of it when it is perfect. So it's a catch 22.

[500Jon]

Hi Highway Star.
What a great name!
I once drove a 67 Gtx Hemi four speed car in LA and had only gone a mile when the Jackasses came out to play!!!
They are always driving a beat-up Import and the car is full of Jerks.
I'm sure it happens all over the World???
If I'm driving my Mopar here in England and people don't take notice, I SELL IT LOL!
No trailer Queen for me.

Even in the land of Gear Bangers, Folks hate 4-speed Mopars!
Whats up with these PEOPLE?

ITS A (NASCAR) MUSCLE-CAR, DON'T YOU GET IT???

All four speeds welcome here in Sunny England, bye from Jon

[moparchris]

I drive my hemi 4 speed 500 whenever I can.  Granted I don't drive it in daily bumper to bumper traffic, but hell, if you can't drive the car what's the point??  Just having the car so you can brag about it and tell people how much it's worth is BS in my humble opinion.  I'd hate to see something happen to the car but... If I need to replace the quarters because of an accident it doesn't cost any more than the quarters for a 318 Charger.  The sheet metal and paint are the same.

[Highwaystar]

I here you Moparchris. I agree. Your comments remind me of a car I saw at Carlisle this year sitting in the building. It's great to have it, but if it is too nice to be driving. I don't want it.
I know a few that build them for investment cars, but currently that's a losing proposition. Restorations are off the charts, unless you are the sheetmetal, paint, and body man yourself.

[500Jon]

Hi 69 500 Folks.

As we are officially the 'carrot-tops of the Mopar world I actually feel better about my 500.
Was offered a mint auto/Air C500, but the beat up multi-colored 'STICK 500' was right up my street!
Even if it was one of 100 its still RARE!!!
Finding 4-speed R/T spec cars is hard enough.
I was very tempted to build a clone 500 in blue with a 426 hemi-4speed.
But now after 10 years of owning this real one, an F8 green 426 hemi-4speed will be fine LoL!

No more worries about rarity or popular opinion, its gonna bee how I wants it!!!

Best wishes to all 'Fellow Carrot-tops'.
500Jon one of 25 as per Galen LoL.