fuel mixture - too soon to adjust?

[Charger72SE]

I pulled a couple spark plugs today on my 440 after a recent rebuild.  I've only ran the engine around 5 hours in the garage with 1 drive around the block (too much salt on the Wisconsin roads). 

the 2 plugs seem to indicate that the fuel mixture is too rich, but with only 5 hours of running the engine, is it too soon to tell if the fuel mixture needs to be adjusted?  I did pour some Sea Foam in the gas to stabilize it during winter.

did you think the fuel mixture needs adjusting now or wait?

thanks!

[69chargeryeehaa]

a bit hard to tell from the fuzzy pics, but just from what i see the base of the plug by the threads looks sooty, dusting of powder dry carbon deposits, looks like the jetting is too rich, as for the strap, it looks not bad, just a bit cold, probally due to the rich jetting.  what thermostat are you running? i just went thru a tuning process on my 440, got to learn all about reading plugs, timing, ect.....lots to learn, but i would definetly tune the motor properly, espically during break in.  at least your not lean.  what's your timing settings? take it for a good 30 min drive, then read the plugs, vary your speed, breif 3/4 throttle, ect.... some good links in my other post about this topic:
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,8645.0.html

hope that helps

[Chryco Psycho]

start tuning it now , it is definatly too rich

[Charger72SE]

well, I've put about 50 miles on the rebuild and pulled a couple plugs to check them out.  Looks like I've gone from too rich to almost being too lean.  I didn't make any adjustments on the carb, other than to increase the curb idle to ~900 rpm

should I make any adjustments now or just drive it 10-20 miles at a time until the 250 mile tune-up?  I'm running a 195* stat

thanks for your comments

[Chryco Psycho]

it looks close , the center electrode looks orange so it may be just a bit lean

[Charger72SE]

thanks Chryco,

so should I just leave things alone until the professional tune-up at around 250 miles?  I'm thinking if I drive it in 10-20 mile trips things won't get too hot.

thanks for your suggestions,

Paul

[firefighter3931]

I like to see a nice tan color on the plugs. White/light grey is too lean....black/dark brown is too rich. 

Ron

[69chargeryeehaa]

ummm, i just played this game lol.  looks from your pic that the jetting (ie: main and seccondary jetting) is jetted too rich.  as for the white elecrtode, the heat range could be too hot of the plug, the engine is running too hot, or the idle mixture is too lean.   my plugs looked very simmilar to yours out of my 440, but without so much black carbon on the base.  if that were my engine, i'd lean the main jets out 1 stage, adjust the idle mixture slightly richer, following the lean-best method, and put a 180*deg stat in the motor.  when i had my 440 running a 195 stat i could'nt get the electrode to color perfect, when i went to the 180* stat it colored nice.  i guess i could have went to a colder plug but i could'nt get them fast enough.  it was eaiser to get the 180* stat, and i gained about 3psi of oil pressure at idle with just a colder stat.  i think it's been discussed alot before about stat temps, and the optinum temp for a 440 BB is 180-195* deg.  anything colder than 180 would be worse.  i had to also diagnose a off-idle bog on top of it all.  what carb do you have?   timing also playes a big role in your situation but that's a whole other topic.  to sum up, if it were my engine depending on what carb you have (i'm really only familiar with eddy's) i would go one stage lean on the main jets, up the metering rods to one stage rich on cruise mode (first step), and set the idle mixture correctly, and go to a 180* deg stat, and address the timing correctly.  as for the timing, i know everyone says to run like 15*deg initial, but my motor did'nt like that at all, i ended up running 10* initial, had a total mech advance of 20*deg all in by 2300rpm, and 14*deg of vacuum advance.  my plugs are perfect color, the motor runs amazing, no bogs, perfect idle, and is making huge power.  but i find that every engine is different and you sometimes have to listen to your engine and give it what it wants.  make one change at a time, read your plugs alot.   

[Charger72SE]

thanks 69chargeryeehaa for your message

yep, I read your entire post and plan on taking the same step by step plan to get my 440 running great.  But I need to break in my engine after last fall's rebuild and then take it to a pro for a tune-up.  After that I'll see how things run and then do some tweaking if needed.

I'm running a stock Holley 4160 4 bbl carb - my 72 SE is numbers matching and all stock, so I'll keep it that way

I'll adjust the mixture a bit richer and then pull a couple plugs after 50 miles and see what's up.

is a 1/4 turn about right to richen the mixture?

thanks again

[69chargeryeehaa]

i can't say about your carb since i'm not familiar with it, but in general, i'd say about a 1/2 turn would do it, seems like it's ideling lean to me.  you might want to find out if your carb has a power valve or something and get that low idle/cruise mode richer.  i'd do it sooner than later as break in is critical.  look after it as soon as you can.  i find that even the "pro's" don't take the time to adjust everything properly, it's a lengthy process that takes alot of trial and error adjustments to get it "just right", you know what they say, if you want it done right..............

[Charger72SE]

sounds good - I'll tweak it richer now, drive it for a bit and check the plugs again

yep, the Holley 4160 has a power valve - I have a couple Holley books so I'll read up on it

thanks for the advice!

[69chargeryeehaa]

tweak the idle/cruise mode rich a stage, and maybe even lean your power mode (main/seccondary) jets a stage.  you won't kill the engine running it the way it's setup now, but it certianly is'nt good for it, espically during break-in.  i find the fine tunning take alot of time to get it just right.  at least your starting now, and not later.  good luck.  i find that i could make a change, maybe pull only 1 plug on each side, clean it and re-install it, then check after 30mi or so to see if your in the ballpark, no need to pull all plugs every time, just when you get a ssetup that is "close" do i pull all plugs, unless your running a 6 pack, maybe then you should pull all the plugs to read.   by the way, i noticed your using champions? i found they took a really long time to color properly, i used AC DELCO's, they are slightly eaiser to read the electrode, but the base is painted black, however they tend to color better.  i used the AC R43S plugs in my 440, and actually found them better quality then the champions, i currently have champions in the car now, and find them alot worse to "read".  i'm not trying to start a plug debate, just sharing my obversations.   i'm even thinking to go down a heat range in the champions, stock plugs for a 440 should be the champion RJ12YC, maybe i'm going to try a RJ11YC or RJ10YC, or maybe just go back to the AC's, not decided yet.