Painless 21 Circuit Wiring Harness; Is it worh a shit?

[68_383charger]

So I've been looking at the wiring of my 68, and I was thinking about saving some time, and buying some piece of mind by getting a 21 circuit wiring harness from Painless. I already know I need the forward lamp harness and engine harness. The under dash harness looks ok, but I have yet to test it. The harness available through year one is a bit pricey and you have to piece it together. you have to buy each section separately from what I have seen. What I am wondering if anyone on this forum has any experience with the painless harness and if it worth a shit, or should I spend the extra money year one harness. Thanks Nate

[moparguy01]

go to www.ezwiring.com

I used their kit on my charger. It went real easy. Just like a painless kit, but half or less the cost. The only difference I've seen between them is that Painless has wires labeled i think every 4 inches. This harness is only every 6.

I have installed both painless and the ezwire. they are very close. both work good. But keep in mind they are GM based, so you need to do some wiring at the steering column and a few other places to make it all work the way its supposed to.

[mopar0166]

just got my painless kit, and it looks great.  from all the negative comments on here , I was more then well surprised with the quality, what cam with the kit etc. 

ill make a post one its done, im in process of getting the car ready for a new harness. 

[frank1966]

go to www.ezwiring.com

I used their kit on my charger. It went real easy. Just like a painless kit, but half or less the cost. The only difference I've seen between them is that Painless has wires labeled i think every 4 inches. This harness is only every 6.

I have installed both painless and the ezwire. they are very close. both work good. But keep in mind they are GM based, so you need to do some wiring at the steering column and a few other places to make it all work the way its supposed to.

I have a Ron Francis kit, its purely a GM kit, little to no mopar. There is a fair amount of rewiring, its hard to figure out IMO but I think it will be worth it.

[myk]

I didn't want to spend the money on the sky high Year One type stuff;  so I went with the EZ kit as sell.  The only drawback is that you have to reuse some of your old connectors, but so what?  You get an updated wiring system with extra circuits for future add-ons, and I like the modern blade type fuses in the system.  Who wants to buy all those harnesses separately anyway?

[garner7555]

I ordered the American Autowire highway 22 kit.  It cost a lot more but it comes with a ton of stuff like ignition switch, headlight switch, dimmer switch, ect.    For quality I dont think you will beat American Autowire.      

http://www.americanautowire.com/view-product/highway-22-complete-wiring-system/

[Finn]

go to www.ezwiring.com

I used their kit on my charger. It went real easy. Just like a painless kit, but half or less the cost. The only difference I've seen between them is that Painless has wires labeled i think every 4 inches. This harness is only every 6.

I have installed both painless and the ezwire. they are very close. both work good. But keep in mind they are GM based, so you need to do some wiring at the steering column and a few other places to make it all work the way its supposed to.

2nd this. Used on my 63 Savoy, great value.

[UH60L]

I bought my painless #10127 kit back in 2007 or 2008 so it's the older, 14 Circuit harness.  It took me a long time to get enough money, time, and motivation to start working on my car again.  Since about the middle of last year I have been working on it a little every weekend, mostly on the wiring harness.

I don't know what the extra 7 circuits are for in the newer harness, but mine seems to have most of what I need plus a few extras such as a relay and wiring for an electric fan, if I had one.

The majority of the wires match the original colors of my old harness.  So far it's been pretty easy to install.  The hardest part for me so far has been deciding how to secure the fuse block.  The old one had a bolt/screw that held it to a mount left of the glove box.  The new one is designed to clip onto something.  I finally gave up and just temporarily zip tied it to the original mount (no one's gonna see it and it doesn't have to be grounded...).

Some things were not included in mine, such as the harness between the wiper motor and the wiper switch.  I had to trace the old harness and make a new one.  Same for the wiper/washer tank motor wire, not included, had to make one (and will have to make the ground wire for it).

Almost none of the connector housings were included, so I put new connectors on the wires and cleaned up the old housings and popped the connectors into them.  My kit did not come with enough of the female "Packard 56" connectors to finish the job, and none of the local parts stores sell them (they need to have the locking tabs to stay in the connector housings...).  I had to order some online.

Mine included 4 connectors with wire already in them for the headlights.

The one connector housing that did come with my kit was a generic early '70s era headlight switch connector, but unfortunately it won't fit my '69, and mine is melted...

I'll hopefully be testing my system in the next few days, and starting my engine for break-in in a few weeks.  I'll let you guys know if I have any issues with the harness.

[UH60L]

Well, the initial test using a battery charger revealed a problem.  I've got constant power to the dash lights, they stay on even with the key and headlight switch off.

Also when I turned the headlight switch to "PARK" I blew the 15 amp fuse for the park/marker lights.

Starting my troubleshooting today.  Hopefully it's an easy fix.

[Derwud]

I ordered the American Autowire highway 22 kit.  It cost a lot more but it comes with a ton of stuff like ignition switch, headlight switch, dimmer switch, ect.    For quality I dont think you will beat American Autowire.      

http://www.americanautowire.com/view-product/highway-22-complete-wiring-system/

I second the American Auto Wire recommendation. I have not ordered or installed one, but they are working on a B-body kit and if it is anywhere as nice as their A-Body kit, it will work out perfectly.

[UH60L]

Ok, so, on my headlight switch I checked the 2 wire connector that goes to the park/tail lights and it has continuity to the green wire on the headlight switch (goes to headlight dimmer switch), all 3 wires on the panel light dimmer and all 4 wires on the hazard light switch.

Something doesn't seem right about that. 

Bought more fuses, continuing to test...

[UH60L]

Well, turns out my front turn signal quick disconnects were not plugged in, so that magically seems to have fixed the fuse popping issue, and turn signals and park lights seem to work.

Still can't get my dash lights to shut off though...

[UH60L]

Ok, swapped the yellow and black wires on the instrument panel dimmer (roller switch) and now the dash lights are off until you turn on the headlight switch.

All previous testing was done with a battery charger.

Tomorrow, stage 2, hooking up the battery!

[Aussiemadonmopars]

Well at least the painless kit looks like an actual full kit and wired differently i.e. a better way. I am using a RF kit and the indicators in the back still work off the break lights by the looks of it. I was hoping that wouldn't be the case and I will definitely change it for safety reasons. I have had to run extra cirucits with the RF kit as well for stuff like AC and Thermo fans (even though the kit controls the fans they still have to be fused from somewhere else). I'm also not happy with the small gauge wire that is running to the RF fuse box, looks to be too small. Good luck and hope the Painless kit works out for you.

[Pat1973charger]

Is this for interior harness only or a whole car? What do you guys use for factory look?

[miller time]

I bought a painless harness and it was a waste, I don't know about new styles but mine had zero again 0 connectors and I didn't have an original harness to canabilize so I hit up Craigslist and found one still in the car for less then $200 so I took a 5+ hour round trip and couldn't be happier, painless harnesses are nice design but with no connectors you might as well buy a mess of different colored wires and make your own and save $ and have a mess of wire left over for other projects,

[mopar0166]

I'm loving my Painless harness,  I did my research and knew what to expect going in.  it did everything I needed and I completely scrapped using a 40 year old harness and trying to run modern stuff through it.  I haven't completed mine yet but I'm doing it at the same time as redoing the dash frame, windshield, rebuilding transmission and center sections and a few more interior mods.  so its taking a bit longer but
I'm testing it along the way with great results thus far.  The amount of connections/ terminals needed were very few and I used them for good order to continue to use the original switches.  (wipers, lights, hazards, console) that's it .  I was missing an ignition plug but when I get one ill deal with it then. 

I'm also running electric fans, electric fuel pump, cb, aftermarket radio, led lights, msd ignition. aftermarket gauges, Dixie horn, electric exhaust cutouts etc)


This Harness was good to me so far,  not recommended for a stock application. and id advise if you really don't know wiring find a friend that does.

[mopar0166]

A little update, dash frame is off. old wiring is out, firewall and dash frame cleaned and repainted.

last night I compared the painless to the factory stuff.  besides re using plastic terminals ( which id do anyway if they were good) it matches up nicely.  my charger had the extra light harness for the console dash stuff and ign as well. I don't think their will be any big issue as well as running dual electric fans, elect fuel pump, Dixie horn, electric cutouts, and MSD ignition. 

pics will come later in the week, not much to see right now.  No its not plug and play but since evey car is different this is a great option.

[mopar0166]

dash is almost done, fuse box is now in the glove box for easy access

[Aussiemadonmopars]

dash is almost done, fuse box is now in the glove box for easy access

Hey Mopar0166, did you have a look in the RF Kit thread, Ive posted a few picks of how I did mine in the glove box with an RF fuse box.

[mopar0166]

Ill have to take alook, when I get it done I have progress pics then ill do the final write for people to reference.  I try to give updates because I know people like that.

[mopar0166]

form the pics it looks like you doing some the samethings im doing to hide the wiring. 

Look good Ill have pics up next week

[Aussiemadonmopars]

Yeah, I think I have to change the position of the coil though. I didn't want to put it on the engine but it's looking like thats the best place for it. 
I am also looking at the firewall coil connector and putting the coil under the dash but am worried about routing.

[UH60L]

Ok boys and girls, I started my engine yesterday for the first time.  After sitting for 8 1/2 years after the rebuild, we put a little oil in the spark plug holes just to make sure everything was lubed good.  The timing was off just a hair, but after turning it over 6 times, she started right up.  Plenty of smoke from the oil we put in, but no issues of any kind from the wire harness.

Everything seems to be working on the car except my dome light, but I need a bulb to test it, and the tach, which I haven't bought/installed yet.  So far so good.  I'm loving how easy it's gone so far.

We only ran it for a few minutes to adjust the timing and carb.  Next step, break in the cam, then test the tranny.  It's been a long time since it's moved under it's own power.        

[Aussiemadonmopars]

Ok boys and girls, I started my engine yesterday for the first time.  After sitting for 8 1/2 years after the rebuild, we put a little oil in the spark plug holes just to make sure everything was lubed good.  The timing was off just a hair, but after turning it over 6 times, she started right up.  Plenty of smoke from the oil we put in, but no issues of any kind from the wire harness.

Everything seems to be working on the car except my dome light, but I need a bulb to test it, and the tach, which I haven't bought/installed yet.  So far so good.  I'm loving how easy it's gone so far.

We only ran it for a few minutes to adjust the timing and carb.  Next step, break in the cam, then test the tranny.  It's been a long time since it's moved under it's own power.        

Greeeat news Buddy. I'm in the same boat as you when it comes to taking time but I bet it's a good feeling knowing it's getting closer to driving on the streets again, huh?

[mopar0166]

AS for an update , since I had the dash out of my car I got the painless install in the dash frame, gauges hooked up, switched hooked up etc.  I sorted through the engine wiring and tail end wiring very easily.   

only notes and keep in mine my car is a 69, their is a few extra wires im not using.  The A/C stuff, they have hard wired leads for side marker light bulbs, and electric choke stuff.   

other then that the colors for the most part match up nicely, and really have had little to no issues yet. 

The only major change to how the painless has set this up is that I use an internally regulated Alternator and I run a full MSD ignition.  It wont be a horrible grind but for people with a more stock application its nice and the colors will match up nicely. 

[UH60L]

Yep, it's getting pretty exciting now.  I'm hoping to drive it next week sometime. 

[UH60L]

I didn't use the a/c wires either, or the accessory wires, or the side marker wires, but I do have an electric choke (Edelbrock 750 performer). I cut and stowed most of the extra wires, but I rolled up the accessory ones and zip tied them in the glove box in case I want to use them later.

I've finished breaking in the cam and for the first time since 2007, I drove the car around the block yesterday.  I couldn't go very fast with no windshield and no hood striker, but the car felt good and ran great, no problems.

Electrically, everything works on my car except the ammeter, which I didn't hook up at this time, and the fuel gauge which we think is because it's not grounded.  The ground clip won't fit because the rubber hose between the fuel line and the tank is too long.  I'll probably just make a ground wire for it.

The only real complaint I have about the painless kit is that there is no fuse list for the fuse block.  Of course mine is the old version, so the newer one comes with a list printed on the back page of the instructions.  I'll have the ask the painless guys if that list is the same for my kit...

[mopar0166]

mines been going well as well, I just rough installed the dash frame last night.  I have the forward wiring done but will do the rear wiring tonight.  no complaint yet, its been a lot easier then it was made out to be on here. 

Good luck

[mopar0166]

one minor negative, the headlight plugs are incorrect for stock application, im going to save the new plugs for when I upgrade the headlights later.  I got enough on my plate right now. 

[jlatessa]

My painless kt came with the fuse box cover imprinted
with the fuse circuits. Yours doesn't have it??

Joe

[mopar0166]

yes and its also on the info pack that you get with it

[mopar0166]

Hooked it up to power and everything worked except directional,

I had to replace the headlight switch as it seemed to stop working and the issue seems to lie in a bad corroded and cracked turn signal switch. 

other then that it has delivered nicely, great product and highly recommend to any not completely stock. I retained the relays for the headlights, added a thermostat relay for my electric fans and my fuel pump is integrated in to the painless system.   

  another step closer to MD show

[UH60L]

I've run into one minor issue with mine.  Now that the engine is broke in, I drove it to the gas station and filled up the tank.  I noticed a slow leak at the sending unit, so I drove the car to a friend's house yesterday and we took out the tank and replaced the sending unit rubber gasket and retaining ring.

The problem I noticed is that the fuel gauge seems to be live all the time even with the key off.  I had noticed a slight parasitic draw at the battery and I'm thinking this is it.

Anyone else run into this, and is there an easy fix?

A guy at work told me it may have something to do with the little DC converter reducer on the back of the instrument panel. 

[Pete in NH]

I've run into one minor issue with mine.  Now that the engine is broke in, I drove it to the gas station and filled up the tank.  I noticed a slow leak at the sending unit, so I drove the car to a friend's house yesterday and we took out the tank and replaced the sending unit rubber gasket and retaining ring.

The problem I noticed is that the fuel gauge seems to be live all the time even with the key off.  I had noticed a slight parasitic draw at the battery and I'm thinking this is it.

Anyone else run into this, and is there an easy fix?

A guy at work told me it may have something to do with the little DC converter reducer on the back of the instrument panel.

Hi,

Your problem has nothing to do with the instrument voltage regulator ( little DC converter reducer)but rather where you are getting your power to it. It should be powered from a source that is only hot when the ignition key is in the run position. It sounds like it is connected directly to a battery source that is powered all the time. 

[mopar0166]

I have a total aftermarket gauge setup , I went for accuracy versus stock look / and having another set of gauges.

I didn't notice if the + feed to fuel gauge gets constant power, ill have to look tonight but I would think its activated on turning the key

[General_01]

Still putting mine in. Been pecking away at it. I am also putting in a 1 wire alternator and an MSD ignition while I am at it. I am not too good with electrical, so I am going kinda slow. I just sent a question to Painless about how to wire the alternator. Should hear back within a day(emailed).

Right now I am trying to figure out why the headlights keep triggering the circuit breaker on the battery charger. They come on and stay on for about 20 seconds then the breaker trips. after about 15 seconds the breaker clicks and they come on again. This keeps repeating but the lights stay on for only about 5 seconds and trips it again. Something is amiss, but not sure what yet. I didn't go all the way to the headlights. I left the harness intact in front of the radiator support and cut the wires just before the battery tray. I put in a six wire connector that will hide under the battery tray. The dome light and the dash lights aren't coming on either. Put a new headlight switch in so I don't think it is that.

[mopar0166]

id think with the MSD And 1 wire alt it would simplify it even more so .

that's the setup I run so if you have questions let me know

[mopar0166]

Still putting mine in. Been pecking away at it. I am also putting in a 1 wire alternator and an MSD ignition while I am at it. I am not too good with electrical, so I am going kinda slow. I just sent a question to Painless about how to wire the alternator. Should hear back within a day(emailed).

Right now I am trying to figure out why the headlights keep triggering the circuit breaker on the battery charger. They come on and stay on for about 20 seconds then the breaker trips. after about 15 seconds the breaker clicks and they come on again. This keeps repeating but the lights stay on for only about 5 seconds and trips it again. Something is amiss, but not sure what yet. I didn't go all the way to the headlights. I left the harness intact in front of the radiator support and cut the wires just before the battery tray. I put in a six wire connector that will hide under the battery tray. The dome light and the dash lights aren't coming on either. Put a new headlight switch in so I don't think it is that.

Make sure the relays for the headlights have a very good ground.  I reused my headlight harness as well but unwrapped in to inspect the wires and re wrapped it.  nothing wrong with that, painless doesn't count on you using the older style of bulb any way.  Also check that the leads are going to the right terminals on the relays, its easy to mix up

the dome light should always have positive juice and the ground gets interrupted with the door switches.  and another piece I reused form the original harness to make life easy.  the dash lights I believe are getting juice from the headlight switch. 

I did have to replace both my headlight switch and turnsignal switch. 

[General_01]

Thanks for the help mopar0166. I went out with a clearer mind today. I double checked the headlight switch and everything seemed good and tried the lights again. Everything works. Not sure if I moved something or if I was just not paying attention yesterday when testing(most likely the problem).  Everything is good now. I put the battery in and everything still works. 

Tomorrow is cleanup and put seats back in car day to get ready to put the Fitech EFI setup in on Friday. 

[TexasStroker]

Thanks for the help mopar0166. I went out with a clearer mind today. I double checked the headlight switch and everything seemed good and tried the lights again. Everything works. Not sure if I moved something or if I was just not paying attention yesterday when testing(most likely the problem).  Everything is good now. I put the battery in and everything still works. 

Tomorrow is cleanup and put seats back in car day to get ready to put the Fitech EFI setup in on Friday. 

Looking forward to see how you like the FiTech.  I had planned to order this week since they were shipping the 6th, but now it has been pushed back another month, lol.  I know several on the board have installed them and are happy, but I'm still looking for long term use and wondering about heat soak.  Hope you get it on and drive the snot out of it, lol.

[myk]

I would think the electric fuel pump would over come any heat soak issues...

[General_01]

When all is said and done, I will post a review. Right now parts are on B/O from Fitech, so I am waiting for the Command Center. In the meantime, my cousin and I are going to do a fix around by making a surge tank an in-line efi pump. That is all the command center is essentially, only they put the pump inside the surge tank.

[General_01]

I would have to say that the Painless kit is not as painful as I thought it might. I am not a fast worker so I took about a week and a half to get it in, but total hours was probably really about 32 hours. I am sure people could do it in less hours than that. It is nice that the harness wires are marked with what they are for and that they use the same colored wires 99.9% of the time. I wish the directions would be a little better, but we have the internet now and that really helps looking up diagrams and finding out how other people hooked up there wires.There are quite a few threads on the web between the Mopar forums about Painless. I also emailed the Tech help once to make sure I was wiring up the one wire alternator correctly. They got back to me the next day.

It's not plug and play, but you don't have to be an expert at wiring cars either to use this kit. I'd use a Painless kit again and I would recommend it anyone.

[UH60L]

I've run into one minor issue with mine.  Now that the engine is broke in, I drove it to the gas station and filled up the tank.  I noticed a slow leak at the sending unit, so I drove the car to a friend's house yesterday and we took out the tank and replaced the sending unit rubber gasket and retaining ring.

The problem I noticed is that the fuel gauge seems to be live all the time even with the key off.  I had noticed a slight parasitic draw at the battery and I'm thinking this is it.

Anyone else run into this, and is there an easy fix?

A guy at work told me it may have something to do with the little DC converter reducer on the back of the instrument panel.

Hi,

Your problem has nothing to do with the instrument voltage regulator ( little DC converter reducer)but rather where you are getting your power to it. It should be powered from a source that is only hot when the ignition key is in the run position. It sounds like it is connected directly to a battery source that is powered all the time. 

I'm still trying to figure it out.  With the car sitting for 5 days it drained the battery enough to not start. 

As to the power supplying the instrument panel and gauges, I connected it according to the diagram, instructions, and markings on the wires in the painless kit.  I have no idea how they wired it from the gauge to the fuse panel to the sending unit.  That all comes pre-wired and I didn't mess with it.

Gonna figure out which fuse controls the gauge so I can pull it when I park the car.  Also gonna e-mail Painless and see what they have to say.

[General_01]

Mine only works while the car is running. I know I had to double check when wiring because when I first looked the wire says Voltmeter and I thought "I have an ammeter??" Then I read it again and said "Oh, Voltmeter and B+ for gauges. That goes to the little thing on the back of the dash."

[mopar0166]

Id say mine is done , minus actually running the car, after waiting for about two weeks to get a new headlight switch and turn signal switch , we are back in business. 

I did upgrade the flashers for my led turn signals but other then that its very straight forward. 

I would definitely us it again.   

with an open mind, knowledge of the original wire scheme and a general ability to wire things, their should be no reason why you can use this with a problem, 

[UH60L]

So, I have been emailing back and forth with the painless tech guy but have not got anywhere yet. 

I tried pulling the gauges fuse and both the radio fuses, no change.

Actually had to be jump started last night when I drove the car to my car club meeting.       

I'm wondering if, since the painless guy had me connect both the hot wire and the ballast resister bypass wire directly to the same wire on the MSD box, if maybe that is what's causing this?...

I'm gonna try disconnecting the alternator wires and see if that changes anything...

I'm just really  on this one...

[UH60L]

Ok, I think I fixed it!  It was my fault.  I had wires # 935 and 955 swapped.  Wire 955 is accessory power and 935 is suppose to go to the 5 wire instrument panel connector.  I had 955 on the panel connector, DOHHHHHHH!!!!!!

I'll drive it and let it sit and see, but I have no more parasitic draw at the battery, so I think I'm good now.

[General_01]

Glad you were able to figure it out. Now you can stop pulling your hair out.

[UH60L]

Well, there was no more parasitic draw, but I found I had a charging problem still.  I was using the old alternator that I had in the car back in 2007 when I tore the car apart.   

My friend brought over a tester and found it was putting out well under 12 volts to the battery at idle.  Took it to a local parts store and they tested it, sure enough it failed the test.

No one in my area had a single field wire 50 amp in stock, so I went ahead and bought a 60 amp 2 field and grounded the second one to the housing.

It's putting 13.4 volts to the battery at idle.  So far so good.  Car runs better now too!   

[General_01]

 

[mopar0166]

 

[mopar0166]

haven't updated in a while, but I love the harness and it was easy in my opinion to put in especaily with the light package etc. 

very minor things made a difference like the connections on the turn signal switch or a ground

work great and my lights are working excellent , couldn't be happier on how it intregated the msd in and one wire alt.

[UH60L]

I have been driving the car to shows and cruise-ins and all over this summer, and haven't had any problems until last week.  I started blowing turn signal fuses, like 4 in a 5 miles stretch... tried putting in a 20 amp fuse just to see if maybe Painless had put in too small a fuse for all those bulbs but after a day I blew that one too.

Wasn't sure what was up, but I turn on the headlights last Saturday and noticed the left hood turn signal indicator was on.  I'm guessing the park and turn signal wires are touching/shorting somewhere.

[UH60L]

Found it, long story short, pun intended    the steering column bracket was squishing the right turn signal wire...

[1batt4u]

Hi all,

I am in the market for a new updated wiring harness kit. I went through this thread and saw what people bought and their experiences with their products.

I wanna do the entire harness, with updated fuse box, preferably connectors on the harness. I would like to add power windows sometime also, will the harness have an option with that as well?

I also noticed someone mention that one of the harnesses they bought, the connector for the headlight is an update. Their headlight still had the old original connector and will update sometime to the updated headlight. What needs to be updated on the headlights, is it just wiring or some electric mechanism?