So this barn find finds me...

[foobar]

A family member has owned this numbers matching 69 RT (XS29L9B...)  since 1970-71.  It was a daily driver, then a weekend car.  It was appreciated and driven (not quite Dukes style, but...) 10 yrs or so.  At some point he spun it and received some front end damage.  Since the early 80s, it has not run and was been garage-kept under a tarp.  I believe it was also garage kept while being driven.  

I have not seen the car in years.  The damage is said to be limited to the front left and the interior is said to be very good shape-- no rips in the upholstery, cracks in the dash, etc...  Everything in the pics, below, is factory original.  For sure, it needs a hood and a left fender (there *might* be fiberglass parts that were obtained for the repair with the car).  The owner has been told by a low-ball-offer-person-creature that there is frame damage.  I am not sure that this is so and suspect it was a ploy to try and scare the current owner into dumping it.  The usual hoses, consumables would need to be replaced, as well.  I am not sure what shape the mechanicals are in.  It has been sitting.

So, the questions are:  
1) what is a fair price for this project car?  This is a family member, after all...
2) what would be involved to fix?  Acquiring parts to replace the damage, repainting, etc...  
3) Thoughts on possible frame damage in terms of repair and affecting overall value?
4) Odds on it cranking over v. needing a complete rebuild of the engine and driveline?

As the car is ~90% complete, my thoughts are to restore to original spec w/ no resto-mods.  Comments?  Thoughts?  I have my strong suspicions as to what its worth, but would like to hear from the forum.

Oh yea, there might be a complete 440 on stand as part of the deal.

TIA

[foobar]

Here's another.  Gotta love low-res camera phones...

[myk]

I wish I could say for sure, but the low-rez photos do not say much about the car; certainly not anything about its frame.  You're going to have to go out there and see it for yourself-this is the only way you'll really know what the car's condition is.  When it comes to buying and selling with friends and family things get tricky, as money changes things for better or for worse.  What price have they thrown out there for you? 

[foobar]

Yea, I know I have to go up there.  I am planning a trip in a week or so.  The lowball-critter threw out $2500-- give him credit for trying.  No number has been asked, as they do not know the value.  They only know it is worth more than the lowball.  This would be a low-confrontational kind of deal-- the owner past away and they want the vehicle to have a good home.

[myk]

$2500?  That's a slap in the face, if the car only has front end damage that requires a fender, hood and some other odd ends.  A grill alone is worth $2500 and it sounds like the rest of this car is in good shape; at least I hope it is.  As for the motor turning over?  It's been 30 years, so I wouldn't count on it.  Do a fluid change, hand crank it some, and then try to fire it, but I'm more concerned with the true condition of the car and its frame.  Keep in mind what my bodyshop told me back in the 90's when I jumped my car off of a freeway on-ramp onto the freeway below: anything is fixable as long as you've got the money and the time for it...

[foobar]

I have seen this car many times in the past.  The rest of it is like it is a 5yr old daily driver.  

I am pretty sure the engine/carb and trans would need a rebuild to keep them from grenading.  Not sure about the rear end.  Shocks, tires, brakes, hoses, wipers, door gaskets...  w/o the sheet metal and front trim, it would be mildly expensive.  But seeing how it is mostly complete and I know the history, I believe it is worth the effort.

[fy469rtse]

From what I can see in photos and angle of hit , keep in mind the reproduce these parts and not a huge cost,
Inner skirt damaged left side of radiator support , top of radiator support repair because of stamped matching numbers on there,
Possible damage to end of rail, and side of rail where bumper iron has compressed, damage to bolts area,
If car has been stored as you said , and kept dry all these years,
Bargain at ten , twenty,
No sign of huge hit , no obvious damage to cowl, bonnet hasn't been pushed into it , bonnet hinge looks ok,
Great find
Spray those bores and let them soak, gently edge motor back and forth at crank, when it turns over easily, dump the oil filter and oil , replace with new then give her a go , you never know your luck

[Ghoste]

Whats it like underneath?  I'm going to guess it's a 10k car right now but its likely worth more than that.

[myk]

Again, I'd like to know more about the possible frame damage, but even with THAT I would say the car's worth at least what Ghoste mentioned.  Then again, we're talking family here so who knows...

[hawkeye]

The front end (assuming no frame damage) might be the easy part.  Very few of these cars survived without rear quarter, trunk or dutchman panel rust, especially the ones that were driven regularly.

[6spd68]

Go for it, I'd say keep it to original spec.  If the engine in the car is #'s matching, rebuild, and put her back together as a restored to original car.  Big money + fun to drive 

Best of luck sir 

[Homerr]

If it was an easy fix it probably would have been done years ago.

[Troy]

I wish I could say for sure, but the low-rez photos do not say much about the car; certainly not anything about its frame.  You're going to have to go out there and see it for yourself-this is the only way you'll really know what the car's condition is.  When it comes to buying and selling with friends and family things get tricky, as money changes things for better or for worse.  What price have they thrown out there for you? 

That grill isn't worth much! It's toast. The grill and bumper are folded down, bumper brace is back by the upper control arm, and I can see where the fender was jammed into the cowl. A hit that hard would have pulled everything to that side - which likely bent/warped/ripped the fender on the other side. There's a good bet that it does in fact have frame damage - but probably not extensive. My guess is that the whole engine compartment is pointing a few degrees to the left. Take some measurements diagonally from corner to corner and from bolt holes that have a common location. Look for a sharper bend in the frame rail than normal where it angles back to the firewall and also look at the rails in the immediate areas around the k-frame mounting points. Check the inner fenders (especially driver's side) for extra bends/creases, the floor pans/firewall where the rails attach for rips, and the torsion bar mounting points for dents. I have learned that nearly all of these cars could use a trip to the frame shop for some tweaking (wrecked or not!). Since it's still together you should be able to get it rolling and to a frame shop *first*. Don't take it apart because it's easier for them to "see" what has to move. Probably looking at a few hundred dollars if nothing was physically ripped off.

That's just to straighten it. Parts you'll need to put it back together will include both fenders, hood, grill frame, grill, valance, valance support, bumper, bumper brackets, and strut rods. There are some other various brackets and shields that may have been damaged but I can't tell from the pictures. One of mine was in a wreck like that and the dash frame was bent from impact with someone's knees and the steering column crush zone was crushed.

The air cleaner is still on it so that's a good sign - unless it's been used as a home by mice. Try turning the engine over by hand. If it isn't seized it may fire up with a good carb on it. Assume the transmission will need "freshened up" but the engine may very well be just fine. I wouldn't concern myself with the spare 440 unless the current engine is seized or you plan on building it up (which it doesn't sound like you do). If you can get it thrown in on the deal then sell it to offset your other costs.

If you can get a real idea of the damage and it isn't horrible... with a good interior and it being numbers matching R/T in a popular color I'd estimate a selling price at least $7k and maybe above $10-13k if there's no rust or other major issues. If you need to replace rust elsewhere, the pot metal trim is badly pitted, and/or the interior pads are dry rotted you need to adjust downwards. Finding and purchasing a nice grill will be the biggest challenge and probably the biggest expense other than paint.

If the damage is repaired correctly I wouldn't expect a serious drop in the overall value. I've had exactly one Charger that wasn't wrecked at some point it its life. Fixing some bent pieces is a whole lot less invasive than major rust replacement.

Troy

[bakerhillpins]

Yea, I'm with Troy on this one. The fantasy of the story is hiding the extent of the damage.  I can't imagine how your not going to have to put that on a puller.   

[Dreamcar]

Go for it, I'd say keep it to original spec.  If the engine in the car is #'s matching, rebuild, and put her back together as a restored to original car.  Big money + fun to drive 

Best of luck sir 

[Mike DC]

I agree with Troy.  The frame is probably bent, but probably not severely.

And yes, replacing that stupid grille assembly will probably cost more than it takes to straighten the frame.  The plastic is not reproduced, and the values of nice complete used '69 grilles started climbing literally 25 years ago.



BTW, it wouldn't be a bad idea to respray the entire car during this repair.  (I'm not suggesting blowing the entire car apart or anything, just hit the exposed outer skin surface and keep the same factory shade.)  The value of original paint is mostly wiped out when you lose the entire front clip.  A respray would be more durable, match better, look better, and the finish on all the panels would eventually age at the same rate.    

[myk]

I wish I could say for sure, but the low-rez photos do not say much about the car; certainly not anything about its frame.  You're going to have to go out there and see it for yourself-this is the only way you'll really know what the car's condition is.  When it comes to buying and selling with friends and family things get tricky, as money changes things for better or for worse.  What price have they thrown out there for you?  

That grill isn't worth much! It's toast.

I wasn't talking about THAT particular grill, just Charger grills in general.

In any case, even with frame repair that car might prove to be easier and cheaper than scouring the world for another similar car, with numbers matching this and that and blah blah blah.  Then again, he hasn't even seen the car yet, we don't even know if he'll end up buying it, it's way too early in the game for that kind of talk...

[6spd68]

This is true, all we can do is hope he does get it, and that there aren't too many unseen gremlins waiting for him...

[tan top]

I wish I could say for sure, but the low-rez photos do not say much about the car; certainly not anything about its frame.  You're going to have to go out there and see it for yourself-this is the only way you'll really know what the car's condition is.  When it comes to buying and selling with friends and family things get tricky, as money changes things for better or for worse.  What price have they thrown out there for you?  

That grill isn't worth much! It's toast. The grill and bumper are folded down, bumper brace is back by the upper control arm, and I can see where the fender was jammed into the cowl. A hit that hard would have pulled everything to that side - which likely bent/warped/ripped the fender on the other side. There's a good bet that it does in fact have frame damage - but probably not extensive. My guess is that the whole engine compartment is pointing a few degrees to the left. Take some measurements diagonally from corner to corner and from bolt holes that have a common location. Look for a sharper bend in the frame rail than normal where it angles back to the firewall and also look at the rails in the immediate areas around the k-frame mounting points. Check the inner fenders (especially driver's side) for extra bends/creases, the floor pans/firewall where the rails attach for rips, and the torsion bar mounting points for dents. I have learned that nearly all of these cars could use a trip to the frame shop for some tweaking (wrecked or not!). Since it's still together you should be able to get it rolling and to a frame shop *first*. Don't take it apart because it's easier for them to "see" what has to move. Probably looking at a few hundred dollars if nothing was physically ripped off.

That's just to straighten it. Parts you'll need to put it back together will include both fenders, hood, grill frame, grill, valance, valance support, bumper, bumper brackets, and strut rods. There are some other various brackets and shields that may have been damaged but I can't tell from the pictures. One of mine was in a wreck like that and the dash frame was bent from impact with someone's knees and the steering column crush zone was crushed.

The air cleaner is still on it so that's a good sign - unless it's been used as a home by mice. Try turning the engine over by hand. If it isn't seized it may fire up with a good carb on it. Assume the transmission will need "freshened up" but the engine may very well be just fine. I wouldn't concern myself with the spare 440 unless the current engine is seized or you plan on building it up (which it doesn't sound like you do). If you can get it thrown in on the deal then sell it to offset your other costs.

If you can get a real idea of the damage and it isn't horrible... with a good interior and it being numbers matching R/T in a popular color I'd estimate a selling price at least $7k and maybe above $10-13k if there's no rust or other major issues. If you need to replace rust elsewhere, the pot metal trim is badly pitted, and/or the interior pads are dry rotted you need to adjust downwards. Finding and purchasing a nice grill will be the biggest challenge and probably the biggest expense other than paint.

If the damage is repaired correctly I wouldn't expect a serious drop in the overall value. I've had exactly one Charger that wasn't wrecked at some point it its life. Fixing some bent pieces is a whole lot less invasive than major rust replacement.

Troy

yeah !!  what Troy  & the others say  

check to see if the driver door opens & closes ,  does it open & close with out catching ,  whats the vent window gap like to A -post / windshield pillar ? has it poped out a little ? , check door to quarter gap ,  also have a good look at windshield to see if its popped out or cracked , also look for any creases in roof ,  also factor in k frame & suspension prolly bent to some extent , pictures don't show anything really !!

sounds like a awesome project , fingers crossed for you that we are all  thinking the worst & its a easy fix    

[foobar]

If it was an easy fix it probably would have been done years ago.

Nope, he was famous for starting projects, but not finishing...  Want to ask how long the kitchen cabinets where in process?  ;-p

[foobar]

<snip> I'm going to guess it's a 10k car right now but its likely worth more than that.

My thought was $7,500 to $10,000.  Based on the comments-- all of which were awesome guidance BTW-- looks like I was in the ball park.  The information provided has been fantastic and I want to thank all of you for it.  Quite frankly, I never would have guessed the grill would be the most expensive and difficult part (YearOne-- you listening?)

I don't think I can reasonably let this opportunity pass by.  I am planning to visit for a personal inspection.  Unless something dramatic pops up, I will most probably pull the trigger.

[foobar]

<snip>
If the damage is repaired correctly I wouldn't expect a serious drop in the overall value. I've had exactly one Charger that wasn't wrecked at some point it its life. Fixing some bent pieces is a whole lot less invasive than major rust replacement.

Troy

Fantastic information-- thanks!

[foobar]

<snip> Possible damage to end of rail, and side of rail where bumper iron has compressed, damage to bolts area,
If car has been stored as you said , and kept dry all these years,
Bargain at ten , twenty,
No sign of huge hit , no obvious damage to cowl, bonnet hasn't been pushed into it , bonnet hinge looks ok,
Great find
<snip>

I will keep these in mind on the visit.  Many thanks.

[foobar]

<snip> The plastic is not reproduced, and the values of nice complete used '69 grilles started climbing literally 25 years ago.

My fear realized.  I just did not think it would be the plastic parts.  I was thinking body panels would be the rarer items.

BTW, it wouldn't be a bad idea to respray the entire car during this repair.  (I'm not suggesting blowing the entire car apart or anything, just hit the exposed outer skin surface and keep the same factory shade.)  The value of original paint is mostly wiped out when you lose the entire front clip.  A respray would be more durable, match better, look better, and the finish on all the panels would eventually age at the same rate.    

I agree.  I don;t want mis-matched paint on the body panels.  Oh yea, I'm gonna keep it original and just freshen it up.  Same as it came from the factory.

[foobar]

This is true, all we can do is hope he does get it, and that there aren't too many unseen gremlins waiting for him...

Is this project going to be cheaper than buying a boat?  ;-p