Rust: newer Dodge trucks vs. old

[MaximRecoil]

2006 Dodge Ram 1500 at my mechanic friend's garage:





Both of the rear wheel openings have had rust repair a long enough time ago that they are both starting to rust through again:





The passenger side rocker panel is rusted through (the driver side is bubbling up in the same area, but hasn't come through yet):



That is one of three Dodge trucks of that bodystyle at my friend's garage right now, and they all have rust problems. One of them, a 2002, has some of the worst rocker panel cancer I've ever seen; fist-size chunks were missing on the sides of both rocker panels, along the entire length; the rocker panels' inner/backing structure was also severely rusted.

On the other hand, here is my mechanic friend's old junkyard dog (1984):





He's had it since 1989, and it has been a plow truck, junkyard truck, scrap iron hauling truck, and general transportation truck for all of those years. Here are its original rocker panels:

[Indygenerallee]

All the 2002 up Dodge Ram's I have ever seen have rust above the wheels on the bedsides (bad design of inner wheelhouse to bedside collected way too much moisture,dirt) rockers are not as bad as a problem though. kinda like the 99-up Chevy Silverado almost every single one of those trucks have rusted out rockers and cab corners (bed sides rust out as well but not as bad as the 02-up Dodges) But then again I live in the rust belt and almost everything driven year round will have underbody rust within 10 years, Im sure someone with the same year truck in Arizona would look perfect.

[Ghoste]

Where are you located?  25 years seems like a pretty good run where I am to escape major rust.

[Aero426]

My 04 2500 is starting to rust on the wheel arches.    Really hate that too.    Thought about getting a southern bed, but mine is an 8' long bed.   I was told they are harder to come by as most people buy 4 door trucks now. 

[MaximRecoil]

Where are you located?  25 years seems like a pretty good run where I am to escape major rust.

Central Maine. I don't know why my friend's '84 Dodge doesn't have major rust, but it doesn't. The rocker panels and floorboards are solid. The frame doesn't have major rust either, though it has cracked and been welded one too many times now (the truck has been beaten on mercilessly for 25 years), and he officially retired it this year (its final inspection sticker ran out a few months ago).

But even in Maine, an 8-year-old truck shouldn't be rusted out; and that truck was rusted through at least a couple of years ago (judging by the rust repair that is already rusting through again), and a 6-year-old truck especially shouldn't be rusted through anywhere. Those doors on the newer Dodge seal via the weather stripping at the top of the rocker panels, but the doors hang down over the rest of the sides of the rocker panels, which creates a trap for snow/slush/ice/mud to marinate against the steel, and since the back doors aren't opened as often as the front doors, the crap stays in there for longer periods of time. The older Dodges like that '84 don't have that design flaw, i.e., the bottoms of the doors are flush with the sides of the rocker panels, instead of overhanging them like the newer trucks.

[Ghoste]

Design is for sure a part of it, do you guys get a lot of salt in Maine?  Where I'm at, that doesn't look so bad but there are so many factors.

[MaximRecoil]

Design is for sure a part of it, do you guys get a lot of salt in Maine?  Where I'm at, that doesn't look so bad but there are so many factors.

Plenty of salt on the roads in the winter here, which sucks for vehicles of course. I don't see why they don't just stick with sand. I wish I had a picture of that 2002 Ram's rocker panels and cab corners; those were just gone, both sides. But, I didn't have my camera with me yesterday, and my friend had it all patched up today, though he thinks the rust will be coming through again in another year.

[stripedelete]

Not sue you can draw any conclusions from the comparison.  I remember the frames on those old rams rusting in half at a very young age.

I think the stuff going down on the roads is much more corrosive than it used to be.

[Aero426]

I think the stuff going down on the roads is much more corrosive than it used to be.

Whatever is being used here is VERY aggressive.

[MaximRecoil]

My 04 2500 is starting to rust on the wheel arches.    Really hate that too.    Thought about getting a southern bed, but mine is an 8' long bed.   I was told they are harder to come by as most people buy 4 door trucks now. 

Yeah, you rarely see the standard cab / 8' bed configuration anymore, though that was the most common pickup configuration when I was growing up in the '80s.

[bill440rt]

Ever see the last generation Durango's? The aardvark design?
Yikes, those things are rust buckets. 

[kab69440]

Let's not forget that new steel is crap nowadays. Too much of it's content has been recycled too many times and it is paper thin to begin with. My 88 Chevy workhorse has less rust than a lot of the newer trucks. I did just buy new cab corners and rockers to install.

[Cooter]

Sad parts is, I see yankee vehicles all the time, and NOBODY undercoats?
WTF is the matter with people up north? 5 years and your car/truck is dead. Plain and simple.

Down here, we see 20-39 years before the entire undercarriage is toast. Not the vehicle manufacturers fault no dealers undercoats anymore. That's just stupid up north.

[Mytur Binsdirti]

But even in Maine, an 8-year-old truck shouldn't be rusted out;

Except for a Dodge.

[Back N Black]

Sad parts is, I see yankee vehicles all the time, and NOBODY undercoats?
WTF is the matter with people up north? 5 years and your car/truck is dead. Plain and simple.

Down here, we see 20-39 years before the entire undercarriage is toast. Not the vehicle manufacturers fault no dealers undercoats anymore. That's just stupid up north.

I agree with the undercoating, i have a 2006 Dodge Ram, undercoated every year and no rust at all.

[GPULLER]

Undercoating wont do anything for rust above the rear wheels.  It's the way the inner wheel house and box side are designed.  It holds too much garbage (dirt, salt).  I don't see why they even put an inner wheel house in.  Never see a 60's Sweptline with rust over the wheels, because they had no wheel houses.  That and they metal was a lot heavier.
Only way to keep them clean is wash daily up from the bottom of front and rear of the rear tire.  Also pulling the tail lamps out and washing above the wheels.
Rockers...there are just too many holes in the backside of the them, garbage gets in there too and soon there will be rot.

[69 OUR/TEA]

My 04 Ram is spotless on the bed side ww's.I bought it in 07,the way to keep any of our new cars from not rusting is simple,.......don't drive it in the winter allowing the salt,calcium chloride,etc get into the seams !!!! I think in the 7 years I've owned it,I got caught in the snow once,and it was before the trucks went out salting.That also was the only time I ever used the 4x4 in it.
I can't believe my eyes when I see any Ford/Dodge/Chevy that the power of the salt used today goes right thru a very thick steel rear bumper !!!!! Holy corrosion !!!!!

[MaximRecoil]

My 04 Ram is spotless on the bed side ww's.I bought it in 07,the way to keep any of our new cars from not rusting is simple,.......don't drive it in the winter allowing the salt,calcium chloride,etc get into the seams !!!! I think in the 7 years I've owned it,I got caught in the snow once,and it was before the trucks went out salting.That also was the only time I ever used the 4x4 in it.
I can't believe my eyes when I see any Ford/Dodge/Chevy that the power of the salt used today goes right thru a very thick steel rear bumper !!!!! Holy corrosion !!!!!

Yeah, not driving in the winter preserves any vehicle, which is why southern and south-western vehicles are much less rusty, because they don't have any winter weather to speak of (it isn't undercoating that is doing it). However, not driving in the winter partially defeats the purpose of owning a truck, especially a 4WD, for many people. Trucks are made for work, and work doesn't usually break for winter.

And yes, modern pickup truck bumpers rust like it was their job. It has to be something to do with the design and/or materials. Have you ever seen a rusted-through second generation Charger bumper? Neither of the bumpers on mine have any significant rust, even though the trunk floor, quarter panels, and rear subframe rails were mostly rusted away before I started working on it (the rocker panels were/are still solid though).

[69 OUR/TEA]

I'll drive it in the winter,just not until the roads are clean and dry  from the slush,etc.

[Todd Wilson]

Its all in how you take care of em! I developed a way to wash my 95 years ago and it still has no rust. It hasn't seen many winters though. My 2005 is doing just fine and I was it the same way. I checked all the problem areas before I bought it and it was solid with no rust.


Todd

[Indygenerallee]

Rust starts BEHIND the panel Todd, It's not in how you wash the vehicle... 

[Cooter]

It's how you take care of the truck. How many will research/come up with ways to undercoat/protect Charger inside rockers for a car. That will never see rain/salt/snow???

Yet, when it comes to that $40k truck that's gonna be in it everyday, they do nothing???

Up north, a vehicle typically lasts 5-8 years and everything under it has scaly rust. NOTHING can be removed as bolts, etc. Just break off. No inside fenderwells being undercoated? No rust proofing being done at all?
Nothing? No four hour wash. Jobs that require blowing off ALL hidden areas with compressed air???
Nothing???

Yet, those classic Chargers get it and only driven rarely???

[Charger-Bodie]

We offer a inner panel rustproofing and or undercoating at the shop. We do a fair amount of them ,but not enough. People just want instant gratification , and its not in your face like a shinny new set of wheels etc. usually when we do convince someone is on their "next" car, when we are breaking the news to them on how much it's going to cost to fix their current rot box..... 400. For each product on average . That's less than pretty much any rust repair....

[MaximRecoil]

My '69 Charger's rear subframe rails, trunk floor, and quarter panels were severely rusted through when I got it in '94, and had been for a very long time, despite its factory undercoating (some of which I had to tediously scrape off in preparation for extensive rust-repair patch welding).

Undercoating by itself doesn't do much to delay the inevitable on a winter driven vehicle here in Maine and similar places. The undercarriage is already painted from the factory, it is not as if it is bare steel. Undercoating may be physically tougher than paint, but when an undercoated vehicle starts to rust out, it isn't usually because the undercoating came off, so physical toughness isn't the issue anyway. There are simply too many nooks, crannies, and openings to enclosed structures where undercoating doesn't reach, but stuff kicked up from the road in the winter does reach. This is probably why undercoating isn't so popular here, because people know from experience that vehicles rust out regardless.

Meticulous and committed usage of a pressure washer and air hose on the undercarriage on a regular basis is very effective, with or without undercoating, but who can realistically do that? You'd need to put the vehicle on a lift to really be thorough with it.

If the factories would just give the undercarriage the same treatment/finish as the steel parts of a Glock pistol have, that would solve the rust problem. Even plain old parkerizing would go a long way. In either case, everything gets treated, inside and out, unlike undercoating, and in the case of the Glock treatment/finish, it is for all intents and purposes, rust-proof. Parkerizing, like has been used on military firearms and other equipment for many decades, is also very tough.

[72Charger-SE]

We offer a inner panel rustproofing and or undercoating at the shop. We do a fair amount of them ,but not enough. People just want instant gratification , and its not in your face like a shinny new set of wheels etc. usually when we do convince someone is on their "next" car, when we are breaking the news to them on how much it's going to cost to fix their current rot box..... 400. For each product on average . That's less than pretty much any rust repair....

Brian, I will call you to schedule the inner panel rust proofing and undercoating on my 2006 Dodge Ram Quad Cab truck.   Thanks!   

[Todd Wilson]

Rust starts BEHIND the panel Todd, It's not in how you wash the vehicle... 

There's no behind the panel on the rear wheel wells on the bed................there's no excuse for those areas rusting on a truck that's not old other then  owners not taking care of their trucks. The lower rockers and cab corners can be washed from underneath and kept clean. The fact of the matter is sooner or later they all are going to rust but if you take care of things you will get a lot of life out of the vehicle.


Todd

[Todd Wilson]

It's how you take care of the truck. How many will research/come up with ways to undercoat/protect Charger inside rockers for a car. That will never see rain/salt/snow???

Yet, when it comes to that $40k truck that's gonna be in it everyday, they do nothing???

Up north, a vehicle typically lasts 5-8 years and everything under it has scaly rust. NOTHING can be removed as bolts, etc. Just break off. No inside fenderwells being undercoated? No rust proofing being done at all?
Nothing? No four hour wash. Jobs that require blowing off ALL hidden areas with compressed air???
Nothing???

Yet, those classic Chargers get it and only driven rarely???

Yup! I agree!


Todd

[Back N Black]

Electronic corrosion protection for cars, does it work? or is it just another snake oil product.

[GPULLER]

There's no behind the panel on the rear wheel wells on the bed................


Todd

Yes there is an inner wheel house on all the newer trucks.  Sweptlines had nothing, that's why you never see one with rust over the wheels on the boxes.

Check out #17 in the attached link.  

http://www.wermopar.com/auto-parts/2009/dodge/ram-1500/body/truck-box/?trim=laramie&engine=5-7l-v8-gas&assembly=tm097905

I agree with Brian, you have to go inner panel to stop the rust.  Just spraying on some undercoat isn't going to stop the rust on the rockers, or box sides

[Cooter]

I've sprayed underscoring after replacing a northern left front fender the bodyshop installed used, after Dan hit a deer. The rest of the truck is in Good condition. I'm in the process of repainting it now BEFORE it rusted to the ground.

I poured black paint into the rear besides until it ran out..undercoated up inside both front fenders.
whoever the engineer was that decided to spot weld the front inner fenders shoulda been beat profusely about the head and shoulders region.

It CAN be done, just nobody does it.

[stripedelete]

My 01 Silverado is dissolving like 01 rust-belt Silverados do.   So when I ran into a guy with a clean 00, I had to ask.
He had drilled access holes into all the voids; doors, cab corners etc.  With a homemade wand he spray waste oil into the void and capped them with small body plugs ( ziebart).  He also sprayed the under carriage with waste oil. 

Couldn't argue with the results.

[MaximRecoil]

Electronic corrosion protection for cars, does it work? or is it just another snake oil product.

Are you talking about cathodic protection? I don't see why it wouldn't work on cars, if designed/implemented correctly. It has a long and proven history (100 years or so) of being used on ships/boats, pipelines, oil platforms, and other things. Galvanized steel works on the same principle, though it is passive (rather than using an electrical current), i.e., the zinc is sacrificial, like the zinc sacrificial anode in an electrical cathodic protection system.

[Indygenerallee]

There's no behind the panel on the rear wheel wells on the bed................there's no excuse for those areas rusting on a truck that's not old other then  owners not taking care of their trucks. The lower rockers and cab corners can be washed from underneath and kept clean. The fact of the matter is sooner or later they all are going to rust but if you take care of things you will get a lot of life out of the vehicle.

Todd, All your info there is plain out wrong... first off these 2002 Dodge Rams have steel inner wheel wells!!! WELDED TO THE BEDSIDE! (How you gonna clean that??) Also the horizontal pinch weld rockers have a inner rocker as well. Main problem is the salted roads driving in the slush, once that saltwater permiates all the welded panel joints and then when it get's nice hot and humid in the summer you have a rust factory. I have seen plenty of undercoated vehicles here in Indiana over my life and it just does not help.

[MaximRecoil]

My 01 Silverado is dissolving like 01 rust-belt Silverados do.   So when I ran into a guy with a clean 00, I had to ask.
He had drilled access holes into all the voids; doors, cab corners etc.  With a homemade wand he spray waste oil into the void and capped them with small body plugs ( ziebart).  He also sprayed the under carriage with waste oil. 

Couldn't argue with the results.

My mechanic friend has done that sort of thing, i.e., spraying used motor oil into a rusted-through rocker panel before patching it.

I still say the factories should parkerize the undercarriage. That results in an actual chemical change to the surface of the steel, rather than just being a sprayed-on coating. I used an ignition coil and its mounting bracket from a '92 Ford van in my friend's junkyard when I did the HEI conversion on my Charger last year, and that bracket was pristine; it looked brand new. Why? It was parkerized:



Not a spot of rust on that coil bracket, in stark contrast to my car, where everything in the engine compartment is rusty, as you can see.

Parkerizing is commonly used on firearms as a more effective alternative to bluing, which is another electrochemical conversion coating that was developed earlier. It is also used extensively on automobiles to protect unfinished metal parts from corrosion.

Yeah, well, it is not used extensively enough, obviously.

[bill440rt]

There's no behind the panel on the rear wheel wells on the bed................there's no excuse for those areas rusting on a truck that's not old other then  owners not taking care of their trucks. The lower rockers and cab corners can be washed from underneath and kept clean. The fact of the matter is sooner or later they all are going to rust but if you take care of things you will get a lot of life out of the vehicle.

Todd, All your info there is plain out wrong... first off these 2002 Dodge Rams have steel inner wheel wells!!! WELDED TO THE BEDSIDE! (How you gonna clean that??) Also the horizontal pinch weld rockers have a inner rocker as well. Main problem is the salted roads driving in the slush, once that saltwater permiates all the welded panel joints and then when it get's nice hot and humid in the summer you have a rust factory. I have seen plenty of undercoated vehicles here in Indiana over my life and it just does not help.

I remember when I bought my '07 the rear wheelwell plastic liners were OPTIONAL!     I couldn't believe it!
They were even standard on my '98. I had zero rust issues with that truck, owned it for nearly 10 years. My '11 has them. I always make sure to hose down the underside when washing it. So far, so good.

[Cooter]

My 01 Silverado is dissolving like 01 rust-belt Silverados do.   So when I ran into a guy with a clean 00, I had to ask.
He had drilled access holes into all the voids; doors, cab corners etc.  With a homemade wand he spray waste oil into the void and capped them with small body plugs ( ziebart).  He also sprayed the under carriage with waste oil. 

Couldn't argue with the results.

The factories aren't gonna add any more price tag to their trucks by helping with this, so it's cheap and works.

[bill440rt]

Something else to note...
The factory rust proofing methods used today are light years ahead vs yesteryear technology. Zinc coated metals, galvanizing, e-coats, epoxies, cavity waxes, catalyzed seam sealers, etc etc. Thick heavy undercoat as a form of rust proofing is almost a thing of the past, and is used more as a sound insulator these days.
However... the metals used today are thinner. So once rust starts forming it eats away quicker. Best bet is to prevent it in the first place.

[hatersaurusrex]

Electronic corrosion protection for cars, does it work? or is it just another snake oil product.

Are you talking about cathodic protection? I don't see why it wouldn't work on cars, if designed/implemented correctly. It has a long and proven history (100 years or so) of being used on ships/boats, pipelines, oil platforms, and other things. Galvanized steel works on the same principle, though it is passive (rather than using an electrical current), i.e., the zinc is sacrificial, like the zinc sacrificial anode in an electrical cathodic protection system.

I looked into it when I lived close to the ocean and the general consensus is that its snake oil.  Something about the area being protected needing to be submerged in a conductor - which is why it would work on a boat or pipeline but not on a car.