Aluminium vs SS rockers... BECOMING ON ROCKERS ASSEMBLY DIAGNOSSIS, with pics!

[Nacho-RT74]

Can you explain me what could be the advantage of aluminium vs SS adjustable rockers?

http://www.prwonlinestore.com/pqseriesaluminumshaftmountrockerarmsystem-3344011.aspx

http://www.prwonlinestore.com/pqmoparshaftrockersystemstainlesssteel383-440-3244012.aspx

[c00nhunterjoe]

Aluminum is lighter, reducing moving mass. The hardened steel is stronger in the end. Your need depends on your build.

[Nacho-RT74]

ok... that's something expected, but, is REALLY NOTICEABLE on a mild build ?

[BSB67]

ok... that's something expected, but, is REALLY NOTICEABLE on a mild build ?

nothing, as long as you are not buying junk.

[c00nhunterjoe]

ok... that's something expected, but, is REALLY NOTICEABLE on a mild build ?

nothing, as long as you are not buying junk.

Ie-  proform

[moparsr2fast]

  I think the comp stainless are actually lighter on the nose the the aluminum. Something in the design. The stainless should last longer then aluminum also.

[Nacho-RT74]

ok... that's something expected, but, is REALLY NOTICEABLE on a mild build ?

nothing, as long as you are not buying junk.

Ie-  proform

LOL!!!

and what about PRW ?

they seem to be same manufacturer maybe ?, but also the Comp SS pieces looks to be also the same LOL!

I got some PRW rockers brass bushings damaged. The ones in front of engine ( cilinders 1 and 2, not sure if also 3 and 4 ), so I got 8 replacement rockers ( 4 lefts and 4 rights ) prepairing to replace half of set. It seem some oiling problem allong the shaft ? Dunno but pushrods in front of engine are dark with burnt oil sticked to them. I'll replace the rockers for the new ones, but thinking on get the damaged one to a machine shop and replace bushings and still get them as spares. Rockers itself are not damaged really but just the bushing.

I noticed how the brass coming from bushings got sticked to the rocker shaft. Really haven't had the chance to deeply check the shaft itself if it got damaged too, or just remove the sticked brass and polish the surface will be enough. My car is maybe thousands miles from home so I can't check it personally on this moment.

So JUST IN CASE will be getting new shafts... mostly sure these:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/300366671963?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

HOWEVER just noticed how a seller is selling PRW Aluminium rocker assemblies in half of the price of PRW website:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/161317771674?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

so, I was thinking maybe for the price get this set, and just use the shafts from the kit if I really need them and get storaged these rockers just in case on a future. Or maybe a full replacement... But if I don't need the shaft because mines come out nicelly polished, sell this full kit locally. ( ppl locally gets nut when talking about Performance parts for Mopars because they are unavailable here )


$120 for just the shafts, or pay double for a full aluminium set which by the way includes pushrods checkers which is nice!!! ( retail price double of that ). Dunno.

Actually I like better the look of the SS ones on an engine, so I'd like to keep them




Pics of when I assemblied my engine

[moparsr2fast]

 Nacho, make sure the oil holes in the rocker shafts are located towards the exhaust side of the head.

[justcruisin]

I run the same PRW stainless rockers, I have had no problems with them, I have only lifted them once for inspection and I did find some brass transfer onto the shaft. It was more of a light coloring in places and I was not concerned. From your picture it seems the adjusters are a long way into the arm, they oil the push rod through a hole in the arm which needs to line up with a hole in the adjuster. Obviously there is room for adjustment but I,m not sure how much.

[Nacho-RT74]

pics were taken just preassembling, not adjusted.

about bushing... mines got really sized...

[BSB67]

ok... that's something expected, but, is REALLY NOTICEABLE on a mild build ?

nothing, as long as you are not buying junk.

Ie-  proform

LOL!!!

and what about PRW ?

they seem to be same manufacturer maybe ?, but also the Comp SS pieces looks to be also the same LOL!

I got some PRW rockers brass bushings damaged. The ones in front of engine ( cilinders 1 and 2, not sure if also 3 and 4 ), so I got 8 replacement rockers ( 4 lefts and 4 rights ) prepairing to replace half of set. It seem some oiling problem allong the shaft ? Dunno but pushrods in front of engine are dark with burnt oil sticked to them. I'll replace the rockers for the new ones, but thinking on get the damaged one to a machine shop and replace bushings and still get them as spares. Rockers itself are not damaged really but just the bushing.

I noticed how the brass coming from bushings got sticked to the rocker shaft. Really haven't had the chance to deeply check the shaft itself if it got damaged too, or just remove the sticked brass and polish the surface will be enough. My car is maybe thousands miles from home so I can't check it personally on this moment.

So JUST IN CASE will be getting new shafts... mostly sure these:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/300366671963?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

HOWEVER just noticed how a seller is selling PRW Aluminium rocker assemblies in half of the price of PRW website:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/161317771674?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

so, I was thinking maybe for the price get this set, and just use the shafts from the kit if I really need them and get storaged these rockers just in case on a future. Or maybe a full replacement... But if I don't need the shaft because mines come out nicelly polished, sell this full kit locally. ( ppl locally gets nut when talking about Performance parts for Mopars because they are unavailable here )


$120 for just the shafts, or pay double for a full aluminium set which by the way includes pushrods checkers which is nice!!! ( retail price double of that ). Dunno.

Actually I like better the look of the SS ones on an engine, so I'd like to keep them

Wow.  Not sure where to begin.  

1) Maybe find out what caused the failure (hint, likely not the shaft)
2) It could be the quality of the parts,  so until you figure out #1, stop plowing good money after bad into your rocker system


If it is the quality of parts, it looks like this is another example of how cheap parts cost more.  

Think about this.  There are cars that can pull the front wheels off the ground and run an 11 second quarter mile using the factory stamped rocker system.  Here you are with a mild, near stock build, buying or getting replacement parts, and contemplating repairing some of the damaged parts for spares.  

[Nacho-RT74]

not sayiong the shafts are the culprit, but, looking forward in case they got damaged once I remove the brass and polish.

Pretty sure I'm getting some lack of oil.

oil holes... Really can't recall where are they toward... will check for that too.

[BSB67]

not sayiong the shafts are the culprit, but, looking forward in case they got damaged once I remove the brass and polish.

Pretty sure I'm getting some lack of oil.

oil holes... Really can't recall where are they toward... will check for that too.

Think of it this way,  There are 4 different ways you can mount the rocket shafts, but only one way is correct.

Hit the shafts with some emery cloth then take a mic to them.  Over tightening the end hold downs can make them go out of round, overheat and burn stuff up.   However, I would not think this would effect the pushrods.    Post pictures of the damaged stuff and maybe you'll get the mystery solved.

[Nacho-RT74]

yes 4 ways, but I'm sure oiling holes are pointing down, what I'm not sure is if they are toward the exhaust or the camshaft...

Two of the ways ( with oiling holes on top ) to mount them would block the oil passage from engine due the smaller bolt hole what must be on top.

as I told, the car is hundred miles from home LOL... will try to be there next week.

[heyoldguy]

Ahh, here we go again. The PRW rockers will work fine, if, if, if, if, IF, you prep them first as you should any aftermarket rocker assembly or any other part for that mattter.

The PRW system should be totally disassembled and cleaned of metal chips, burrs and proud metal. Sometimes during manufacturing the brass bushings even get smeared along side the lifter body where they rub against the shims or hold downs and break off in small clumps. Sometimes you have to tap the rocker bodies or chase the threads of the adjusters to clean burrs off them. I have found metal chips inside the adjuster screws, shafts and rockers.

Then you must make sure the adjusting screw cups go all the way up into the lifter body. The cup of the adjusting screw should go up inside the rocker body, if it doesn't, get a replacement rocker. The reason being, when you measure for your pushrods the screw should be turned out one thread only and this aligns the oil hole in the rocker with the oil band in the adjuster screw. Back the adjusting screw into the lifter body until it stops and turn it out one turn. There should be no threads showing at one turn out, then you measure for the pushrods. If you have two threads showing you have blocked off most of the oil to the pushrod. Result? Burnt pushrods and adjusting screws. As stated before, don't overtighten the hold down studs or bolts, you will oval the shafts and seize the rockers.

[Nacho-RT74]

Ok! I'm with my car and here this is what I found

Shafts correctly indexed with oiling holes toward exhaust

Lot of burnt oil ( charcoal ) on front cilinders ( 1 and 2 ) rockers and shaft ( also pushrods )

Pics are becoming from right side rockers assembly

1st pic... Note the large gap between rocker and shaft... Of course, lot of play there.



2nd pic... Worn bushing ( same rocker )


3rd pic... Note shaft marks on cilinder 2 rockers

[Nacho-RT74]

Two cleaning steps on shaft... First with a fine metallic sponge, then with a worn 1200 grit sandpaper...

Two first rockers area


Full rocker view



Same after the sandpaper

[Nacho-RT74]

Need to say, I can feel with my fingers all those areas on shaft, like worn areas ( rockers got seats on shaft)... Need to check with detail every rocker yet.


Dunno what to think about this.

Left side is more less the same but not so deep.

[Nacho-RT74]

Forgot to say! When my engine got recently assemblied, I had full oil pressure in gauge  ( Milodon HP oil pump ) still with engine hot, but after some months, began to get half if scale in gauge.

Maybe a year ago, I began a thread about this, and somebody told me I could get an oil pressure fail on top of engine due  the 4th camshaft bearing spun... But wondering if oil sender gets the oil sensing from same source or oil channels than heads/rockers.

HOWEVER still half scale on gauge should be good enough for engine oiling... Shouldn't ?

[justcruisin]

Only the heads are oil feed from the #4 cam bearing.  Looking at the discoloring of the rockers it seems to be an oil problem. With the shafts off crank the engine over to see if the heads are oiling - could be a spun bearing. How much clearance did you have between the rockers?

[Nacho-RT74]

Actually didn't check the clearence just checked they moved freely once mounted

[fy469rtse]

Nacho, the oil pressure drop is a worry, half is really something to be concerned about, sorry I missed that thread, can you post photos of lifters and bottoms , time to pull intake and inspect the cam lobes that you can see,
Worried for you on the effects oil starvation has had on the cam itself,
That burnt oil on the shafts tells me everything was getting very hot top end, that would explain the wear and gauling of shafts,
If evidence of wear , very sorry but you will need to pull camshaft and inspect bearings,
My self I would also drain oil , run a magnet through it and see what sort of debris you pull out of oil , I would cut filter open as well to see what it's picked up, post photos
Those racket shafts show the effects of heat, did engine run hotter than normal as well ?

[fy469rtse]

Sorry ment to add , don't reuse those shafts, get new , I always lean towards banana groove oil shafts , wider area oiled under the bushes to rockers
Also recommend billet hold downs to shafts , post photos and update let the experienced engine guys on here see all , they may pick up on something they see ,

[Nacho-RT74]

Yes I was comcerned about shafts, since I can feel the depresions where rockers were running. Not excesivelly deep, but they are there


Engine was to be removed and dissasembled anyway to square block deck ( was badly decked at machine shop ) so! Everything will be checked from the ground.

Engine never got hot... Maybe just 1/3 to 1/2 of the gauge scale as max reading. I can' recall exactly since the car was parked a year ago to make a deep body job ( is on that right now )

Engine just got running one year and a half after built the stroker with 440 crank. Then parked.

Even it seems obvious I was getting a oil failure, why he gauge never got really a bad oil pressure reading! True was way lower than the begining, but never less than half of the gauge!

Once again I ask... Does the oil sender gets the pressure from diff source than the oil arriving To the heads?


One note more... I was getting lifter noise when starting up the engine, for the first 3 or so seconds.

[Nacho-RT74]

Aaand, another question more related with initial post

How needle bearing rockers ( aluminium pieces posted are with bearings, already asked about ) keep the oil? Do they have seals on sides .