1970 switch to 1969 Charger

[Mike DC]

  
All these Canadian prices being thrown around . . . Canadian dollars, I'm thinking?  



Anyway, I agree with the crowd - sell that '70.  I'm a big GL fan too but that car deserves to stay how it is.  

There are lots of Chargers/GLs out there.  Show me someone who "cannot find a decent one", and I'll show you someone who can find dozens of them but isn't willing to pay what they are worth.   

[don duick]

I was thinking of converting my 70 into a 68 and got talked out of it. In the end it would not feel right and affect resale value.  I did a 1970 version of a dmcl clone. the thread is in the body and paint section few months old now.

[polywideblock]

either sell the 70 and buy a GL or try just driving around in a VERY nice 2nd gen and feel the "vibe" for a while.

give yourself a couple of months to see what its like  , you might be surprised just how good it feels 

[six-tee-nine]

Personally I'm notagainst any kind of modification, does'nt matter if its an engine conversion, auto to manual  conversion or Hemi swap.
Even heavyly modded suspension or whatever I can appreciate all of them, but let a 68 be a 68 and a 70 be a70 and so on.

Maybe your 70 will loose more of its value if you put a 69 front on it...
It may be so that a 70 is a little less desirable to most of the common crowd but you should be able to resell the 70 and find yourself a nice 69 instead.

Me personally, I would hate the fact that I should have to tell everyone again and again at a carshow that it isnt a real 69.

No offence to the true GL fans but come on is a "regular" Charger not waaay better looking? I'd say for sure it is!

[myk]

Since you don't care for "authenticity" my recommendation is to work with the car you have now.  Besides, just what is an authentic General Lee?  Warner Bros. Studios cobbled those cars together anyway, so modifying your '70 isn't too far from what the creators of that show have done in the past.

give yourself a couple of months to see what its like  , you might be surprised just how good it feels 

It was once my dream to drive a General Lee as well; back in high school I didn't think of anything more than I did that damn car, including girls.  But, once I finally got behind the wheel of the Charger and daily-drove it for 5 years it was such an awesome experience I completely forgot about the General Lee and just reveled in the fact that I was driving one of the most beautiful machines ever crafted by man...

[darkside]

your 70 looks nice . I bet you could trade for a 69.

[Troy]

Daytona, when I looked for new metal it came up to $1850 for a LH fender (already have RH) hood, valance, headlight assembly. Figure I can find used parts much cheaper.

You're still missing a lot of the stuff I mentioned - and I'm certain that number doesn't include the entire grill. I'd at least double that estimate. There's a reason 69 Chargers are so expensive! I nice grill with everything will probably cost about what you listed for just the sheet metal. I remember the days when a "I" trim piece in the center was selling for over $700 alone! Reproductions have lowered that cost but not everything is reproduced. Now, having brought up cost, this can be significantly offset by selling the 70 parts because the fenders and hood are in demand for anyone wanting to make a Daytona clone. The bumper and interior (specifically seats) to anyone restoring a 70. It's still a shame to start with such a nice looking car. If you have someone who restores cars then they can certainly fix a rougher version of the correct year.

And please, please, please, don't reuse (ie spray paint/dye) that interior for a GL. It is nearly impossible to find nice burnt orange interior parts. I remember my first 1970 Challenger. Was burnt orange in and out but, as a teenager, it looked "brown" to me. I painted the entire interior black. I cringe whenever I think of it now.

Troy

[Homerr]

Troy, get on board - that '70 is too nice to mess with. 

[Old Moparz]

Keep it, lose the front bumper & grille, get a nose cone & a wing, then turn it into a General Lee Daytona.

Maybe even a 4x4 for the Canadian snow. 

[Bowers]

Thanks guys for all you insight. Here is the status as of this morning.
I have a RH Fender, Bumper and brackets.
I can get a grille for $1000. Waiting to see the pics of the hood, LH Fender and valance and prices.
I can buy the following parts new
Hood - $550
Fender - $600
Front Valance - $120
Headlight Support - $350

That is for the parts to finish the front end.

Now to the extras. Paint will be $2000 with clear coat. My Uncle will paint the vehicle for free as I am a photographer and we can swap hours for shoots of his finished cars.
$200 to rent the booth and baking machine?
Not sure about whether I want to go Decals or have the flag and 01 painted on.

The inside will be left alone until I can afford to do it properly.

Still waiting to hear from Cooter or see a listing of his car.  

Thanks

[Bowers]

Also I have a guy with 4 vector rims for $500 locally. The wheels on there now are also 15"

[Troy]

Troy, get on board - that '70 is too nice to mess with. 

I said to sell it before - but that doesn't seem like the direction the OP wants to go.

Thanks guys for all you insight. Here is the status as of this morning.
I have a RH Fender, Bumper and brackets.
I can get a grille for $1000. Waiting to see the pics of the hood, LH Fender and valance and prices.
I can buy the following parts new
Hood - $550
Fender - $600
Front Valance - $120
Headlight Support - $350

That is for the parts to finish the front end.

Now to the extras. Paint will be $2000 with clear coat. My Uncle will paint the vehicle for free as I am a photographer and we can swap hours for shoots of his finished cars.
$200 to rent the booth and baking machine?
Not sure about whether I want to go Decals or have the flag and 01 painted on.

The inside will be left alone until I can afford to do it properly.

Still waiting to hear from Cooter or see a listing of his car. 

Thanks

You're still missing the bumper, bumper brackets, bumper extensions, valance support bracket, side marker housings and lenses, front marker lights, hood turn signals, and headlight vacuum lines/reservoir/switch (70 headlight doors are electric while 68-69 are vacuum operated). I'm assuming the grill is complete (meaning it comes with all the brackets, doors, and rotating mechanisms). If you buy new sheet metal, you'll need all the hardware, body bumpers, and hood latch. There are also some inner splash shields behind the fender and I'm not sure if they interchange. Remember the push bar!

Are you forgetting body work? Even new panels often need some tweaking and I don't think you want to just shoot paint right over everything. But, then again, it *is* a GL so it can look crappy I suppose. I'd use cheaper paint in that case. Last time I rented a paint booth I only painted a hood and it cost me nearly $250 (my cost was $50 per hour including primer, filler primer, paint, clear, and drying). I suppose you could do the primer steps elsewhere. You still need primer, sand paper, masking tape, cleaners/solvents, etc. if you're doing bodywork ahead of the actual paint process.

Go with decals. Painting the flag and numbers is a lot more effort and doesn't look right in the end.

I'm very in tune with all these pricey little details because I'm a fool with five project cars going at once! My initial estimates were so far off that I doubt I could have finished one car with the budget I had for all five. All the little things (like shop materials!) chip away at the budget. Of course, I think my expectations also got higher over time. Half my cars were planned as "driver quality" but I couldn't see myself cutting corners after investing so much time and money already. Set a goal and keep your eyes on it!

Troy

[DadsCharger00]

ok wait...so you're going to go through all this work, and NOT paint on the flag and the number on the door....isn't that what MAKES it a GL car? Or am i missing something here....either way...NICE 70....GOOD LUCK.

[Bowers]

Hi Troy,
As stated above I have the bumper and pieces already. All I needed to finish it was the Fender, hood, valance, and headlight assembly. The price of $200 is to rent the booth. That is the employee price for the body shop where he does his work. All primer and sanding can be done at the workshop. As I said the labour is being comped for photography so I don't have to shell out that expense. Just pay for parts and paint.

Dadscharger00 - Yes we are putting the Flag and 01 on the car. Just looking at the options of painting or applying the 3M decals.

[Troy]

Sorry, missed the bit about the bumper. You still have to buy the primer and materials right? My cars were taken all the way down to bare metal so I have a significant amount in labor and materials. I'm sure yours will be much less - but you also have to mask off a lot more than I did.

Here's some info Cooter posted a while back about his car:

Although my car was up for sale, it has black interior and none of what I refer to as stupid GL stuff on it.
Ie fake roll bars, antenna, CB...
It is a 20 footer, but will require some bodywork as it needs  dr side quarter.
Only $15k was asking though.
440 5 speed.

I don't see how you could build yours for anywhere near that. Even if you have to put on a new quarter and paint it to match you'll be ahead.

Troy

[Bowers]

Hi Troy,
Yes I have to supply the materials and labour is free. I am interested in Cooters car but have not heard anything back from him on it's availability or images. I have had a few offers for mine here already so that could be a possibility. Mine has been appraised at $35k as is right now.

JB

[JB400]

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,61128.msg681926.html#msg681926

This is Cooter's introduction.

[Cooter]

Pm sent

[Cooter]

No offence to the true GL fans but come on is a "regular" Charger not waaay better looking? I'd say for sure it is!

Yep, that MUST explain why the General Lee is so popular. Sorry, silly me, I was thinking the GL was a regular Charger with some decals.

[MaximRecoil]

Go with decals. Painting the flag and numbers is a lot more effort and doesn't look right in the end.

I disagree with the bolded part. The early General Lee's graphics were entirely painted on, hand-painted even (with a brush). However, even with later General Lees, the flag was still usually mostly painted on (only the stars were decals). With high quality masking tape and a paint gun, all of the graphics except for the "GENERAL LEE" text and the stars could easily be made to look perfect, since they are just big, straight lines. Stars are just straight lines too, but they are small and errors with symmetry and geometry would stick out like a sore thumb. Most of the letters for the "GENERAL LEE" text would be easier to paint than the stars, since all of the letters except for the "G" and "R" are just straight lines, and there is not so much geometry involved in any of them as with stars. Even the "G" and "R" wouldn't be terribly difficult if you used 3M Fine Line masking tape to get around the curves.

For example, when painting the flag, you would start out by painting a large white rectangle on the roof, like so:



Then you paint 4 red triangles:



Then you paint the blue "X" shape:



Before you paint the blue "X" shape, you have to decide whether you want the stars to be painted or you want them to be decals. If you want them painted, before laying down the blue, you have to mask solid star shapes on the white, and when you peel them off after applying the blue, the star shapes will be left behind in white. If you want the stars to be decals (which is how it was most typically done by Warner Bros.), any outdoor vinyl sign shop can cut you out 13 perfect ones on a plotter; just make sure you specify good quality vinyl and adhesive (e.g., 3M). Either way you do the stars, the result is:



Everything else is done in the same way, i.e., apply the white first, then the color on top of it. The "01" and "GENERAL LEE" text are only two step processes:





I think paint looks a lot better than vinyl, since it can perfectly match the rest of your car's finish (vinyl will only perfectly match if your entire car is vinyl wrapped). And vinyl can start to peel off like on the letter "E"s here:

[Cooter]

Give 50 people paint brushes and tell em to paint "General Lee" and "01", and you'll get 50 different versions. Some hideous. THAT I believe is why decals ARE the way to go. CrazyC has em down in any style or mix and match.

We had one guy here that paid way up in the thousands to have his lettering painted on. "General Lee" was all in white, the flag had no white border, and the "01" was WAAAY off.

[Cooter]

Dang, WTF? now I got three offers??? Geesh..

[nvrbdn]

must be a good time to sell.

[Troy]

Dang, WTF? now I got three offers??? Geesh..

Happy to help!

As far as the flag... there's only a handful of people who care about authenticity. I am not one of them. I like my replicas of fictional cars to be simple, cheap, and easy.

Troy

[MaximRecoil]

Give 50 people paint brushes and tell em to paint "General Lee" and "01", and you'll get 50 different versions. Some hideous. THAT I believe is why decals ARE the way to go. CrazyC has em down in any style or mix and match.

We had one guy here that paid way up in the thousands to have his lettering painted on. "General Lee" was all in white, the flag had no white border, and the "01" was WAAAY off.

Oh, I know all about that, which is why you use measurements (I wouldn't use a brush either; I'd use a paint gun same as for the rest of the car's paint job). For example, for the "01":



By the way, all of the graphics images I've posted are my own drawings which I've done using screenshots or other photos of Warner Bros. General Lees. The GENERAL LEE text I drew based on the photo of "LEE 1's" roof, like so:



There are errors in the original, because it was hand painted with a brush. I didn't copy the errors (the picture isn't high enough resolution to perfectly copy the errors anyway); I just wanted the look of that "font" and spacing, but I corrected it to perfect geometry. I did the same thing with the "01" (real "01s" had a lot of errors too, i.e., inconsistent angles and thicknesses, since they were also hand-painted originally, and then later hand-cut from adhesive-backed vinyl).