1970 switch to 1969 Charger

[Bowers]

Thanks MaximRecoil,
I spoke to my uncle about decals or paint and he said paint all the way. We have a local vinyl sign company that can make the stencils and he paints it exactly as you said. His gripe was if I put on decals and clear coat it and the decal peels off so does the clear coat. I believe I saw a site that had the exact dimensions and widths of the 01 and Flag.

[MaximRecoil]

Thanks MaximRecoil,
I spoke to my uncle about decals or paint and he said paint all the way. We have a local vinyl sign company that can make the stencils and he paints it exactly as you said. His gripe was if I put on decals and clear coat it and the decal peels off so does the clear coat. I believe I saw a site that had the exact dimensions and widths of the 01 and Flag.

Stencils cut out on a plotter would be perfect for the stars and the "GENERAL LEE" text. They could be used for all the graphics of course, but the rest of the graphics are such an easy masking tape job that I wouldn't bother with stencils.

I've seen various sets of dimensions for the graphics online. They will all differ due to all the graphics variances seen on the show, and human error when it comes to measuring things. The way I do it is to first find a screenshot from the series which shows a good view of a version of the graphics that I like:



Then I draw the graphics in a vector program based on the screenshot, correcting the geometry, symmetry, and such in the process:



Then, using a known measurement, such as the ½" width of the white outline, I resize it to full size (since my original files are vector, resizing is lossless), then I can measure everything else from my drawing. Another bonus of making vector drawings is that they can be fed directly into a plotter to automatically cut out exactly what you drew. They are also the highest quality source for printing.

I did the same thing when I drew the flag (and the "GENERAL LEE" text which I already mentioned) that I posted earlier:



I've also drawn the later, lighter-weight version of the "GENERAL LEE" text:



And if you want the version of the GENERAL LEE text used in the 2005 movie (the decals were supplied by Phoenix Graphix), well, that is just off-the-shelf Helvetica font; it doesn't need to be drawn, because you can just type it, like Phoenix Graphix did in the first place.

There is an accuracy ballpark for the graphics because of all the variances on the show, and as long as you stay within that ballpark, they will look good. It's when people stray out of that ballpark that it looks screwy; the two most common mistakes with the "01" for example is to use totally wrong angles on the corners of the "0" (such as the ever-popular and intuitive 45-degree angle, whereas the correct angle is 35 degrees), and making the stroke way too light (there was an example of a highly anorexic "01" on a lifted 4x4 version of the General Lee posted earlier in this thread).

[indreams84]

No offense man, but that 70' is too pretty to be made into something as common and tacky as a GL. It'd be the equivalent of taking an original Delorean and throwing a bunch of crap on it to appear as a Back to the Future clone. Granted it is your car, but man, this last week at a show this GL clone pulled up and parked next to my 69' R/T and another guys 70' black 500 in a row...and it sucked. End of story. 

[bill440rt]

No offense man, but that 70' is too pretty to be made into something as common and tacky as a GL.

That's what the majority of the posters on this thread have been trying to tell him. 
Usually, one takes a cobbled car and fixes it up. This one is going backwards. 

[indreams84]

No offense man, but that 70' is too pretty to be made into something as common and tacky as a GL.

That's what the majority of the posters on this thread have been trying to tell him.  
Usually, one takes a cobbled car and fixes it up. This one is going backwards.  

+1...our cars are becoming too rare to be given such a painful existence. It's too bad there wasn't a kit-car company that built GL fiberglass bodies guys could slap on a 83' caprice frame or something...

[cudaken]

It'd be the equivalent of taking an original Delorean and throwing a bunch of crap on it to appear as a Back to the Future clone.

Maybe we can get him to paint it black, stick a Blower on it (a real blower) and do a 70 Fast and Furious Charger!   

Cuda Ken

[MaximRecoil]

No offense man, but that 70' is too pretty to be made into something as common and tacky as a GL.

You clearly don't know what "tacky" means:

"Things that are tacky are cheap, flashy, garish, gaudy, loud, tawdry, or trashy."

A typical '70s custom van is an example of "tacky". The "General Lee's" graphics are very clean and understated. It is not airbrushed kitsch, it consists of clean vector graphics, i.e., spot colors. The typefaces used for the numbers and letters are timeless designs, rather than something dated like this. Also, the Confederate flag is easily one of the best looking flags ever designed (and whoever designed it in the 1800s understood the timeless quality of clean vector graphics).

The GL didn't even have white letter tires; just basic blackwalls.

Additionally, aside from the graphics, everything is functional. The wide push bumper design that most GLs had is actually very tough/solid, and was inspired by the functional push bumpers that vintage dirt track race cars usually had (see here for an example). A rollcage is obviously functional; in addition to added safety, it increases chassis stiffness better than any subframe connectors can do. And of course, everyone knows the function of a CB radio.

You also clearly don't know what the word "common" means, considering that second-generation Chargers are in no way common to begin with, and GLs only account for a small percentage of those.

It'd be the equivalent of taking an original Delorean and throwing a bunch of crap on it to appear as a Back to the Future clone.

Yeah, exactly like that, except, the stuff on the BttF DeLorean actually is crap; 100% non-functional sci-fi props.

Granted it is your car, but man, this last week at a show this GL clone pulled up and parked next to my 69' R/T and another guys 70' black 500 in a row...and it sucked.  

It sucked ... why? Did the GL get more attention than both of you guys' cars combined? (See here). By the way, are you one of those guys who thinks you're better than McDonald's? I sense a bit of "elitism" from you, and I suspect it encompasses more areas than just cars.

End of story.

Thus saith the indreams84.

+1...our cars are becoming too rare to be given such a painful existence. It's too bad there wasn't a kit-car company that built GL fiberglass bodies guys could slap on a 83' caprice frame or something...

Yet General Lees are "common".

[Homerr]

The real turning point of rarity will be when all the orange cars are bought by people that go back to stock with them.

[Mike DC]

 
The GL audience is a notch younger than many Charger fans.  Many are still in their 20s/30s now.  By the time the GL fanbase ages out of the Charger ownership pool, these cars are going to be pretty friggin' ancient. 

[don duick]

we need more dmcl clones 

[Cooter]

The real turning point of rarity will be when all the orange cars are bought by people that go back to stock with them.

Haters gonna hate. But this will never happen. Every 10 years, the GL picks up new fans. You know, the ones that ask you when you gonna paint it orange.

[nvrbdn]

i really dont see the problem with the gl's at car shows. to me its just a paint and wheel/tire choice on a dodge charger. i wouldnt paint my car that way, but i also am drawn to them to see how well they have been done when they show up. around here they are as rare as all the other chargers.


    if he lived close to me, i would help him with the transformation. i would try to get the parts from him he needs to swap out. i would trade him interiors.
               he bought a car with a dream in his head, and he should be able to do as he wishes. if someone has the ability to make his job easier, trade him a 69 that needs some work for a 70 that is complete and both parties will be happy.

[indreams84]

No offense man, but that 70' is too pretty to be made into something as common and tacky as a GL.

You clearly don't know what "tacky" means:

"Things that are tacky are cheap, flashy, garish, gaudy, loud, tawdry, or trashy."

A typical '70s custom van is an example of "tacky". The "General Lee's" graphics are very clean and understated. It is not airbrushed kitsch, it consists of clean vector graphics, i.e., spot colors. The typefaces used for the numbers and letters are timeless designs, rather than something dated like this. Also, the Confederate flag is easily one of the best looking flags ever designed (and whoever designed it in the 1800s understood the timeless quality of clean vector graphics).

The GL didn't even have white letter tires; just basic blackwalls.

Additionally, aside from the graphics, everything is functional. The wide push bumper design that most GLs had is actually very tough/solid, and was inspired by the functional push bumpers that vintage dirt track race cars usually had (see here for an example). A rollcage is obviously functional; in addition to added safety, it increases chassis stiffness better than any subframe connectors can do. And of course, everyone knows the function of a CB radio.

You also clearly don't know what the word "common" means, considering that second-generation Chargers are in no way common to begin with, and GLs only account for a small percentage of those.

It'd be the equivalent of taking an original Delorean and throwing a bunch of crap on it to appear as a Back to the Future clone.

Yeah, exactly like that, except, the stuff on the BttF DeLorean actually is crap; 100% non-functional sci-fi props.

Granted it is your car, but man, this last week at a show this GL clone pulled up and parked next to my 69' R/T and another guys 70' black 500 in a row...and it sucked.   

It sucked ... why? Did the GL get more attention than both of you guys' cars combined? (See here). By the way, are you one of those guys who thinks you're better than McDonald's? I sense a bit of "elitism" from you, and I suspect it encompasses more areas than just cars.

End of story.

Thus saith the indreams84.

+1...our cars are becoming too rare to be given such a painful existence. It's too bad there wasn't a kit-car company that built GL fiberglass bodies guys could slap on a 83' caprice frame or something...

Yet General Lees are "common".

I didn't mean to be outright offensive, but nothing you have stated in regards to my post has swayed the fact that I find (and I suspect a vast majority of other Charger owners) a GL to be headache, WHEN parked in a car show by mopars that are factory appearance. I, being 29, have always loathed a gorgeous Charger ruined by graphics, tan interior, and some dorky horn/bumper guard since I was a youngster. Thats my opinion. Not worth much if you disagree.

I will say I wish at car shows there was an area for cars like GL clones, batmobiles, ghostbuster ambulances, and all the other what-have-yous....

[Baldwinvette77]

The real turning point of rarity will be when all the orange cars are bought by people that go back to stock with them.

Haters gonna hate. But this will never happen. Every 10 years, the GL picks up new fans. You know, the ones that ask you when you gonna paint it orange.

No kidding, in any online game i play with decal customization i see tons of general lees 

in need for speed world they have a 69 charger, they are either dressed up as F&F cars or GL's by players

[Bowers]

Hi Guys,
I am certainly not offered by anyone's posts or opinions on this subject. When I posed the question if it would all fit without having to cut anything I fully expected the backlash However, I grew up watching DOH as a kid and now my 5yr old watches it with me and he loves cruising on Thursdays to the local car show. This is a dream of mine since I was 5 and I now have the opportunity to do it whether a clone or actual 69 it doesn't matter to me. It isn't the car that I am in love with it is the memories of sitting with my dad and watching week after week of the boys getting in and out of trouble. I now have those memories with my son and soon we can even drive in the car together.

Thanks

JB

[Cooter]

No need to explain JB. Haters gonna hate. Been that way since 1978 when everybody didn't care if it was a 'real' hemi OR an R/T, only that it was a General Lee.

Do what makes you happy, and if you can piss off a few purists, go for it. Cause, afterall, anybody can restore, but it takes balls to cut one up.

[Brass]

I'm not a GL hater – I grew up watching that show too.  But I'm not a fan of GL conversions either.  In this case, its like trying to make cool-aid by watering down wine.  OP, I think you should spend some time getting acquainted with that gorgeous car as-is, before you start making plans to strip it of its uniqueness.  It might endear itself more than you think if given a chance.  You might also be surprised to find your own tastes ripening since you were a kid watching DoH.  Or as others have sensibly suggested, find a good home for it and buy Cooter's GL.  

Just my opinion and well intended advice – I'm not trying to pick fights or be insulting.  Wishing you luck yet bracing myself in case I have to avert my eyes.

[Homerr]

The real turning point of rarity will be when all the orange cars are bought by people that go back to stock with them.

Haters gonna hate. But this will never happen. Every 10 years, the GL picks up new fans. You know, the ones that ask you when you gonna paint it orange.

Cooter, it seems you labeled me a 'hater' because I commented about rarity and that someone might actually buy a GL and convert it back.  I was talking in general, not like GL's would be actively sought out to convert back or something, just based on rarity and value.  Something like an e-body hemi drag car (without much pedigree) converted back to stock hemi car.  Doesn't make a drag car hater out of the owner.


Cooter, I'm not a hater.  But if I find the right car for the right price and it happens to be a GL I would convert it back to a standard Charger.  I'd actually probably try to avoid a GL in any case, but it could happen.

I'm not out there accusing everyone who has ever done a GL that they are 'stock Charger hater'.   

Let's just be friends.

[Indygenerallee]

I had all intentions of making my 69 Charger a General Lee when I bought it. I had everything for it the vector rims, pushbar, antenna, CB, horn, all of it... But the more I looked the situation over there are just way too many General Lee's out there and while I thought it might bring some of those memories back from my childhood I finally realized it wouldnt. but to each his own it took me getting the actual car and all the stuff to realize it truely just was not right for myself, and I went the Daytona clone route instead. Best of luck in your choice but personally I would sell the 70 and buy Cooter's General Lee before modding a 70 to look like a 69 (It will be easier on the wallet and much less headache) 

[cudaken]

I am sort of a DOH hater but not because of the General Lee. But it is sad how many where destroyed 

1 Hated they had crooked cops
2 Hate they where stupid cops. (I was in enforcement at the time)
3 Hated the fact they treat the viewers like we where stupid as well! But it was the 70's, so many of the viewers where stoned or kids. But how many times can the Duke boy drive around the same tree with out Rosco cutting them off? 

Far as the General Lee it self? Cool looking Charger except the vinyl top trim! (Glad are Cooter did not use it)

Bowers, Just paint the 70 Charger your version of the Dukes color, do the flag and such, add a Bush / Push Guard and call it done! By the way, was your Dad a Car Guy? If he was, what would have he wanted you to do?

By the way, I had some haters when I added the Blower. But, I did find a butchered 69 hood for the Charger.

Cuda Ken

   

[bill440rt]

I went back & re-read this thread, all 4 pages of it. (Like I have nothing else better to do.) 
I can count one, maybe 2 posts that could possibly be classified as actual "hatred" towards the General Lee. I don't think most are against actually building a GL, but rather voicing their opinion in disagreement of taking that particular car (NICE looking '70, BTW), and converting it into one. Coming from a Charger enthusiast forum, this should not be surprising. (Last I checked, it IS a forum for Charger enthusiasts.) 

Wasn't there another thread a while back where someone built a GL from a REALLY nice '68? Wasn't it originally blue with a white top?? 
IIRC didn't he sell that car shortly afterward? From what I remember he didn't like it after the conversion after all.

After reading this thread again I will add, the purists ain't got NOTHING on the GL crowd!!     

[Cooter]

The real turning point of rarity will be when all the orange cars are bought by people that go back to stock with them.

Haters gonna hate. But this will never happen. Every 10 years, the GL picks up new fans. You know, the ones that ask you when you gonna paint it orange.

Cooter, it seems you labeled me a 'hater' because I commented about rarity and that someone might actually buy a GL and convert it back.  I was talking in general, not like GL's would be actively sought out to convert back or something, just based on rarity and value.  Something like an e-body hemi drag car (without much pedigree) converted back to stock hemi car.  Doesn't make a drag car hater out of the owner.


Cooter, I'm not a hater.  But if I find the right car for the right price and it happens to be a GL I would convert it back to a standard Charger.  I'd actually probably try to avoid a GL in any case, but it could happen.ironic statement. Kinda reminds me of a purist.

I'm not out there accusing everyone who has ever done a GL that they are 'stock Charger hater'.  

on the contrary, imo, every time there's a thread talking bout converting a clean 68/70 into a General Lee, posting things like "I wouldn't cut up a nice 68, just buy what you want. Most times, I see basket cases turned into GL's"

As if a clean 1970 is "too good" to be a GL tribute??? Comments like these aren't as hater direct as most, but hating none the less

You say let's all be friends, well, until a GL thread like this one crops up, OP NEVER has to make statements like "Guys, I knew bout the 'backlash", you will always have haters. For whatever reason, someone posts a clean 68 factory this, factory that, and gets nothing but positive comments for pages....

Yet, let that same someone post that SAME CAR being turned into a tribute to the GL, and I see no "friends" there in the posts?
Funny how that works.

[Cooter]

I went back & re-read this thread, all 4 pages of it. (Like I have nothing else better to do.)  see Homer?? Hater comment. Otherwise, he'd have passed on making this little jab. Just had to put it in there. As if arguing for 30 pages about how rare some wing car rotting in some field is alot better for him to waste time on?
I can count one, maybe 2 posts that could possibly be classified as actual "hatred" towards the General Lee. I don't think most are against actually building a GL, but rather voicing their opinion in disagreement of taking that particular car (NICE looking '70, BTW), and converting it into one. Coming from a Charger enthusiast forum, this should not be surprising. (Last I checked, it IS a forum for Charger enthusiasts.)  see Homer? Again, only saw two posts about actual hate. Well, if your a hater, kinda makes your definition of hate a little different than that of another then doesn't it?
What qualifies as actual "hate" towards GL? Does it have to come out and actually have words like "stupid", "red neck", "dumb" etc? Or can it be that a guy bought a clean car that happened to be a 70, that he just wanted a clean example to begin his conversion to the most popular star car ever, and we should be supporting his decision, cause afterall, we didn't shell out the clams for that car. HE DID.

Wasn't there another thread a while back where someone built a GL from a REALLY nice '68? Wasn't it originally blue with a white top??  
IIRC didn't he sell that car shortly afterward? From what I remember he didn't like it after the conversion after all.

After reading this thread again I will add, the purists ain't got NOTHING on the GL crowd!!      

see homer? Just had to take up for all those that spouted the purist crap about "leave the 70 alone"...."too nice a car to hack up into a GL"....haters...only a purist would say that instead of encouraging OP to follow his dream. Don't even get me started on the tarded comment about how many Chargers the DOH "destroyed" above. Only ONE REASON to make a comment like that....


Don't get me wrong Homer, haters are a necessity. Without them, we wouldn't have fifty-bazillion hemi tributes out there being sold for huge money, which in turn draws attention to these cars.
I am a hater of rich (inherited) douches, I'm a hater of hemi stuff. Like the hemi bandwagon is the only one for miles around. I'm a hater of wing cars/tributes. Why would someone wanna ruin a perfectly good R/T (afterall, true tributes are done like factory fid. With R/T) by sticking an F-40 wing on the back and Corvette nose on it? And painting one orange with some decals is so horrible??? WTF?
again, haters are needed. Therefore, they will do nothing to actually hurt the General Lee's popularity, so it's not a bad thing.

[bill440rt]

Cooter, it's OK to address me directly. I don't bite. 
You're rebuttals in red are your jaded interpretations. Nothing what I posted (or many others) is from the standpoint of neither a hater nor a purist. (BTW, just to prove to you, I too grew up on the Dukes, have loads of Dukes stuff, my son's room is a Dukes shrine, and I've attended several Dukes events. And 2 of my cars are clones. How much of a hater or purist can I possibly be??  )   I saw their posts as a standpoint from an ENTHUSIAST.
I did notice what started as simple round table discussion, turned into name calling of other members back on page 1. And not from a "purist".

And again, sorry to you if it appears that way. Besides, hating around here is YOUR job. 
And I'll STILL have a cold one for you in the heat of Carlisle. 

Bottom line is some people are going to support the transformation, but others are not. And that applies to people in BOTH camps.

[Cooter]

See Homer, still don't get it. At least I'm man enough to admit when I'm hatin. Again, without haters, the General Lee would still be a car someone will cut up a perfectly good 68-70 to recreate. Haters just have to post about that's all.