Complain About Headers Here

[ChargedNJ]

I'm just a little frustrated at this point trying to get my new ones in; need to hear that i'm not alone.

[Dino]

I'm just a little frustrated at this point trying to get my new ones in; need to hear that i'm not alone.

Oh you're not alone, we've all had this frustration.  What's giving you problems?  It helps, especially on the driver side, to loosen the motor mount and jack up the engine just a tad.  Also having the header and the starter go in at the same time may help.

Let us know what is in the way, pics would be helpful as well.

Don't get too mad and don't go for the hammer, that only brings regret and more bills to pay.

[ChargedNJ]

lol, thanks Dino.  Yea, thus far, i've resisted the hammer but im close.  I've got the driver side header almost out.  Its just snagged on this one little linkage thing thats connected to the tranny!!  I forgot to take a pic last night but i will when i get home.  I did take the one motor mount bolt to jack the engine which i've heard suggested but when i started cranking the jack, it started lifting the whole car which freaked me out so i just gave that up after 2 or 3 pumps.  Am i doing something wrong on that front?  I might be able to get the old one out without that extra clearance, but i dont think there's any way i get the new one in without doing so.  I took the advice and went with mini-starter...WOW!  WHat a difference in size/weight..thats one thing i know i wont need to worry about when i put things back together!!

[Baldwinvette77]

I stuffed an industrial big block in a pinto front suspension, so, yeah im with you, but raising the engine off the motor mounts looks like it will help me, maybe give it a shot?  

[ChargedNJ]

I stuffed an industrial big block in a pinto front suspension, so, yeah im with you, but raising the engine off the motor mounts looks like it will help me, maybe give it a shot?  

Do i have to remove all the mount bolts?  I had only taken off the driver side.  is that my issue?

[crj1968]

Might help to do both sides so you dont tear the other mount.

[RKCHARGER]

   I got so mad when I did mine I quit and sold them lol  Hooker supercomps. Bought TTI's had them in the car same day.

[Ghoste]

It does suck but they are worth it in the end IMO.  If it helps, be very very thankful you aren't trying to install a set on a Cobra Jet Ford.  Even their mid size Torino is a nightmare but a Mustang with power brakes and power steering is truly a masochistic undertaking.

[ChargedNJ]

Might help to do both sides so you dont tear the other mount.

So it is just the two sides, then?  Someone said there might be a 3rd up front?  I'll give it a shot.  I guess one has to be careful about aligning bolt holes on the way back down?

[crj1968]

There is no front motor mount.  Dont take out the long horizontal bolts. Just take off the nut on the underside and then all you have to do is drop the studs back in the holes when done and slip the nuts back on.  You really arent wanting to jack it up too much maybe just 1.5 inches or so. Just enough to get that wiggle room.

Or if your like me you could run manifolds.   

[ChargedNJ]

Oh!!!  i took out the long horizontal bolt; i guess that was my issue. 

[crj1968]

Are we talking big block car?

The mounts are different.  Either way as long as you detach the motor from the K frame you can jack it up a bit. you'll get the bolts lined up again, no problem

[Dino]

And don't do both at the same time, you don't need the extra strain going somewhere else.  One side at a time.  You can unbolt the kick down linkage at several places depending on how much room you need.  It's easily done so do that first.  Last time I worked on my headers I removed some of the wiring and the vacuum hoses even.  Anything to get more room.

[ChargedNJ]

yep, its a 383.  i'll have to go take a look and see what other bolt is down there to remove since the long horizontal one didnt do shite.

[XH29N0G]

definitely not alone.   The first set I had were smaller and went in without a hassle.  The second set (hooker Competition) took years of trying to put in (also a 383).  I finally succeeded, but needed someone to help me reassemble from there.  I would go about it differently now, and look into dropping some of the steering linkages (which I did not do).  See if someone here points you to a step by step to follow.  I think that would be worthwhile.   

[ChargedNJ]

Hopefully this doesn't turn into years for me, but it feels like it could. I guess the hooker comps are just a pain, which is what I have as well. I did take apart some of the steering links which was helpful. Determinesd to get them in before Tuesday rolls around.

[Mytur Binsdirti]

Headers suck.

Case closed.

[Canadian1968]

Is it an auto tranny??? The you can removed the linkage from the tranny pretty easy! The pivot post actually comes right out of the tranny case !!

[BrianShaughnessy]

I just got these off ebay..  Stainless.   3" ball flange.   I'll see what happens next week when I drop the motor in Sinnamon and try to fit these up.

[cudaken]

Charged, I have gave up on installing headers with the motor in the car! I been there and done that! My self, it takes less time to unhook the cannon plug for the harness, pull the motor mount bolts, radiator, hoses, shift linkage, drive shaft, cross member and lift the engine and 727 at the same time. When I was young, took about 45 minutes with out  breaks.

I have a few tricks with Hookers Comp's when replacing the starter that does not require pulling the engine or lifting.

Cuda Ken
     

[fy469rtse]

ChargedNJ, when jacking with one mount undone , put a strong piece of timber under sump to stop you denting it, then put the jack as far across to that side of sump that's engine undone , try it again, it will lift up , helps if car on ramps ,
Allows you angle them to arrow them in , gives you a lot more room to wiggle them in

[NHCharger]

If your not re-using the headers that are coming out do what I did. cut them out with a sawzall.

[ChargedNJ]

Thanks Canadian! Pivot post sounds like an accurate description of the last thing in my way so I'll try and get it out.

[ChargedNJ]

Sweet looking headers Brian. What type are they? They look brand new! I got mine off craigslist for $180 basically new; a guy bought 'em and they were the wrong size. Saved me a ton. god bless craigslist.

[ChargedNJ]

Wow Cuda, in trying to get on your level! I'm a novice so I'm already pretty proud that I was able to take a lot of the steering apart without having an anxiety attack. Any tips are helpful!

[ChargedNJ]

Thanks fy469! I'll give it another shot. I'm up on ramps so I got that going for me. To unmount, somebody said that it's not the long horizontal bolt so I got to figure out what bolt frees it up. I'll keep you posted as soon as the ball & chain gives me an opportunity to get in the garage. Two kids makes this hobby 1,000 times tougher!

[XH29N0G]

To unmount, somebody said that it's not the long horizontal bolt so I got to figure out what bolt frees it up.

Maybe I am missing something.  There is a long horizontal bolt that fits across the bottom of the mount (see picture) and a nut that fits on the top.

When I have done this, I have removed this long horizontal bolt completely, and the engine then has been free to lift.  It only goes so far until the bell housing hits the floorpan though.  I had to play around with the various permutations of mounts, to get the headers in when I put them in my car. 

[ACUDANUT]

Just say no the headers and hello to HP manifolds. 

[BrianShaughnessy]

Sweet looking headers Brian. What type are they? They look brand new! I got mine off craigslist for $180 basically new; a guy bought 'em and they were the wrong size. Saved me a ton. god bless craigslist.

They're new ... some brand called OBX ...  Price was right so I figured I'd see what the deal is. 

[crj1968]

To unmount, somebody said that it's not the long horizontal bolt so I got to figure out what bolt frees it up.

Maybe I am missing something.  There is a long horizontal bolt that fits across the bottom of the mount (see picture) and a nut that fits on the top.

When I have done this, I have removed this long horizontal bolt completely, and the engine then has been free to lift.  It only goes so far until the bell housing hits the floorpan though.  I had to play around with the various permutations of mounts, to get the headers in when I put them in my car. 

Yeah it doesn' t really matter what you remove, the long bolt you took out should do the trick. Maybe its just crusty and stuck a bit

[fy469rtse]

Yeh it's the long horizontal bolt you took out, it goes through those bolt holes ( ears ) it goes through engine mount into boss area attached to K frame ,
It should lift up , when jacking keep going even when it starts to pick up car, remember your picking up cars heaviest part and suspension will unload and raise ,
Once header in , don't be in a hurry to do everything back up, you may need to clearance ,( ding ) a few areas for clearance, different on all cars ,common to touch steering box ,
So mark any areas that touch and remove, I used a ballpean hammer to slightly dimple areas that are close,
Don't forget your starter motor, if these are the type of header that you can't get starter off and on with them installed, you will need to sit starter in headers on install,

[cudaken]

Wow Cuda, in trying to get on your level! I'm a novice so I'm already pretty proud that I was able to take a lot of the steering apart without having an anxiety attack. Any tips are helpful!

After you do it 4 times it is not brain surgery. I was racing at the time engine got pulled about every 20 passes just to check things. I was young and in great shape, guess I was around 22 at the time.

On the headers you are pulling, why?  When I pulled the Cheap Casiler Headers (cheap and bad knock off of Hooker) I cut them off with a touch and beat them with a 5 pound hammer after they where off just because I hated them that much!  Cheap headers suck donkey things!

My hooker super comps have lasted 35 years so far and yet a leak. Knock on wood! 

Cuda Ken

[Mr. Lee]

Just say no the headers and hello to HP manifolds. 

That's what I was thinking 

Anyone has any ideas about this statement?

[Ghoste]

I love headers.  Some hassle to install, yeah but nothing good ever comes easy.

[Dino]

Very true.  This is not a hobby where everything comes easy.

[Ghoste]

For sure.  If you think installing ready made headers is a pain, imagine Doug Thorley making his own (that's how he got started) or Vic Edelbrock casting an intake for himself, or Sig Erson grinding his own cam.  They all did it because no one was making what they needed to make their flathead Fords go faster.

[cudaken]

Just say no the headers and hello to HP manifolds. 

That's what I was thinking 

Anyone has any ideas about this statement?

I use to think headers where a waste on stock engines. I read some where that they where only worth a extra 5 HP on a stock motor.

Then there was a topic on the subject in the engine section. A member post is Dyno test with stock HP manifolds and headers on a other wise stock 440. I was shocked that headers alone increased the engine by 20 HP. 

Real question is are you willing to live with the problems headers will give you for 20 more HP. 

Cuda Ken

[ACUDANUT]

Headers suck.

Case closed.

X2

[myk]

Very true.  This is not a hobby where everything comes easy.

Exactly.  I dunno about you guys but in my opinion working on cars to get them better sucks PERIOD.  But, it's a hard path that has to be walked if you want the benefits of having a better "anything" on your car.  Are headers worth the extra 20 or whatever HP?  That question gets a different answer depending on who's trying to answer it.  I probably WON'T get headers, but then again if I wanted an EASY car to live with I woulda' bought a Honda Civic and painted that orange instead...

[ChargedNJ]

Happy Memorial Day fellas! Thanks for the advice and encouragement. I'm about to give it another go. A couple friends coming over later so the extra hands should help too. I'll post progress

[Dino]

Happy Memorial Day fellas! Thanks for the advice and encouragement. I'm about to give it another go. A couple friends coming over later so the extra hands should help too. I'll post progress

Excellent!  But don't give them any hammers either.   

[Mr. Lee]

So now I have standard exhaust manifolds on my 440 in my 69. The 440 is 73 engine btw. If headers will give me 20 hp extra, what will it get extra when I mount the HP manifolds?

Also a question about the HP manifold on the RH side. It has a valve in it. What is it for, how is it controlled and how bad is it when it's missing?

[cudaken]

So now I have standard exhaust manifolds on my 440 in my 69. The 440 is 73 engine btw. If headers will give me 20 hp extra, what will it get extra when I mount the HP manifolds?

Also a question about the HP manifold on the RH side. It has a valve in it. What is it for, how is it controlled and how bad is it when it's missing?

Mr Lee, maybe that is where I came up with the extra 5 HP figure from memory. What did the 440 come out of? 

Now that I am old and happy if the darn thing starts and hits on all 8 I go with HP Manifolds. Like a idiot at one time I had 3 pairs and sold them all!  Troy, the owner of our site got the last set 15 years ago. 

Cuda Ken

[myk]

So now I have standard exhaust manifolds on my 440 in my 69. The 440 is 73 engine btw. If headers will give me 20 hp extra, what will it get extra when I mount the HP manifolds?

Also a question about the HP manifold on the RH side. It has a valve in it. What is it for, how is it controlled and how bad is it when it's missing?

Power gains will vary; there are too many variables to make an educated guess...

[fy469rtse]

Where we benefit from headers is when we upgrade, mines a 505 stoker victor heads, it wouldn't breath with factory headers, it might seem like a lot of work at the time, but it's worth it for the performance add's,
I don't think I have ever had an easy set , my advice is to trial fit, mark up where you need to clearance , take your time , do it right , do it once
I bought my raw no coating, modify get them to fit, then ceramic coating is a must, to stop a lot of those bad points associated with headers and the heat aspect

[Ghoste]

Also a question about the HP manifold on the RH side. It has a valve in it. What is it for, how is it controlled and how bad is it when it's missing?

It's a heat riser valve and its to help warm the intake up when its cold.  It's thermostatically controlled and it shouldn't be a big deal if it's missing at all.  Unless you plan to drive in very cold weather.

[projectanimal]

Happy Memorial Day fellas! Thanks for the advice and encouragement. I'm about to give it another go. A couple friends coming over later so the extra hands should help too. I'll post progress

Always better with a few buddy's drinking and laughing with you!   Last year we switched the headers on our car, pain but not bad once we jacked the motor as everyone has stated.  Also learned that moving the wheel one way or the other gives you more room with the steering bar shifted one side or the other.  You just have to be patient..... not the easiest for us all when enjoying our projects, but the reward is amazing.  Happy Memorial day to everyone.  Cheers

[Mr. Lee]

It's a heat riser valve and its to help warm the intake up when its cold.  It's thermostatically controlled and it shouldn't be a big deal if it's missing at all.  Unless you plan to drive in very cold weather.

Not a chance!  The car only comes out when it's dry and nice wetter.

Thanks for the explanation 

[Mr. Lee]

@ fy469rtse , @ myk , @ cudaken


Thanks for the input guys 

As I have a mild set-up, I'll just go for the HP manifolds instead of the headers and the additional problems.

[cudaken]

I kept the stock HP on my 69 Charger Rusted / Trash for a decade and was happy. Then the Blower Bug Bit, did not seem right to have manifolds on a Blown 440. 

Cuda Ken

[Ghoste]

Wow, did you really have that thing that long Ken?  Seems like it was much shorter than that.