XV Motorsports modified '69...not feeling it for the 85k price tag

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

Someone had XV modify their '69 Charger to the tune of 85k on the invoice.....Meh...not feeling it....  

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dodge-Charger-Restomod-1969-charger-restomod-5-7-hemi-re-engineered-car-from-ground-up-1968-1970-/171309504394?forcerrptr=true&hash=item27e2d7978a&item=171309504394&pt=US_Cars_Trucks





Look close...for the $$ you would think they'd upgrade the small pinion 741  8¾" rear for something larger?  

[73rallye440magnum]

$20k for the drivetrain? Someone got a nice bonus that quarter.

At least the color is nice. 

[6spd68]

   Clear example of, should've done the work yourself...  IMPO the guy who originally comissioned the car to be restored got shafted hard... 

[WHITE AND RED 69]

85K in drivetrain, interior, and suspension!    Someone got shafted, definitely not getting that money back in the sale.

I like the car though, color combo is cool and it is done up well.  

[6spd68]

I don't get why they took the car to Canada, and then brought it back into the states?

[JB400]

I'd drive it, but not for the price they'll be wanting for it. 

Might explain why XV is going belly up

[myk]

$650 to install the battery in the trunk?  I'm still seeing spots of rust/corrosion on the car.  For $85K a car needs to be clean enough to eat off of.

In any case, I didn't know XV was still around, and with pricing like that they won't be for much longer, although there will always be people with more money than sense.

Oh and by the way, lose the out-of-place wheel well trim for Pete's sake...

[Homerr]

Something is off about it, just looks just driver quality on the finish.  And those seats are terrible.

[Drache]

$20k for the drivetrain? Someone got a nice bonus that quarter.

At least the color is nice. 

What does a 5.7L Hemi crate motor usually go for? 

[TUFCAT]

The color combo is atrocious.    That's a lot of money to invest on such a bland looking car.   As far as the little bit of corrosion you see myk, I think this car was driven and enjoyed.  Most XV customers don't spend big bucks like this to have a car modified, then sit on a trailer. It may have had several thousand miles put on since the build.  

[bill440rt]

I'm not so sure about the driven so much part, Tuffy. Looks to me that XV bolted on a lot of new stuff on an average restored car. XV did not do much as far as body/paint is concerned from what I can see on the invoices. Some, but not the whole thing.
The bolt on stuff still looks good & relatively new, whereas the body is showing rust forming & age like an older restoration.
Much of the invoice consists of labor charges, which pretty much gets flushed down the toilet when trying to sell a car. Almost 5K is just in transport charges.

Color and wheel opening trim is subjective to personal tastes. Some will like it, others won't. I don't mind the trim. Not my favorite color, but it would look great if the car was stock with that combo.

IMHO I'm in agreement with the OP. The owner may not recoup all of his $85K investment.

[will]

Sign is off the building. Went to the Yankee game last week and the sign is not on the building anymore. Maybe I'll take a ride this weekend and find out for sure.

[73rallye440magnum]

$20k for the drivetrain? Someone got a nice bonus that quarter.

At least the color is nice. 

What does a 5.7L Hemi crate motor usually go for? 

Beats me, but I was a little surprised to see that. Maybe I've been out of the loop for too long.

[crj1968]

Someone had XV modify their '69 Charger to the tune of 85k on the invoice.....Meh...not feeling it....  

agree
$85K? That's a lot of K's.   

[sanders7981]

I guess XV was trying to keep the lights on a little longer? 

[myk]

I'm not so sure about the driven so much part, Tuffy. Looks to me that XV bolted on a lot of new stuff on an average restored car. XV did not do much as far as body/paint is concerned from what I can see on the invoices. Some, but not the whole thing.
The bolt on stuff still looks good & relatively new, whereas the body is showing rust forming & age like an older restoration.
Much of the invoice consists of labor charges, which pretty much gets flushed down the toilet when trying to sell a car. Almost 5K is just in transport charges.

Color and wheel opening trim is subjective to personal tastes. Some will like it, others won't. I don't mind the trim. Not my favorite color, but it would look great if the car was stock with that combo.

IMHO I'm in agreement with the OP. The owner may not recoup all of his $85K investment.

That's the point I was trying to make; an average car with bolted on wunder parts does not equal an 85K dollar car...

[fy469rtse]

Now on ebay for 40 K ,

[TUFCAT]

You guys are right, it wasn't a complete restoration for $85K. I just looked at the receipts. Geesh!!... for that price I would have thought it was for EVERYTHING, including the body work/restoration costs  That whopping invoice only includes the XV add-ons, drivetrain, interior, and suspension!!....Holy Schnickies  

At the very least they could have cleaned/painted some of the areas underneath while working under there.

[Mytur Binsdirti]

I'd like to know what the tubes are bolted to on the other side of the firewall. Don't look like that they would do very much.

[Ghoste]

Its unfortunate but if its for sale on e bay and someone has offered 40k, that could be as good as it gets.

[b5blue]

Guys if you add up that invoice it comes to 9,567.50 not 85,00? (Even with the 16.50 X 95.00 part.) 

[tracpack440]

Click on the ebay link. That's the last page of the invoice there are 4 pages to the invoice.

[Kern Dog]

What a joke. The invoices show ungodly rates for simple shit we do all the time. $650 for a battery relocation? $2100 for a 3rd member, axles and bearings?  The XV guys did fairly good work but charged up the rump for all of it.
The car is pretty plain looking to me. This would be a nice looking cruiser but an $85,000 car need more flash.

[Ghoste]

His appraisal arrives in another 40 minutes.   

[bill440rt]

I think we can all agree it's not an $85K car. That's just what the owner has sunk into it. And, that doesn't appear to include his original purchase price for the car, whatever that may be.
This is a classic example that you don't always get back your investment come selling time, especially with modified cars. Even more so when you have to pay someone else to do all the work on it.

Remember though, this is a HOBBY for most, as in spending your money on these cars out of pure enjoyment. Not always a money making scheme or investment.

[Ghoste]

Yeah, I'm sure he was still hoping for a lot more than the 40k it sold for.  The restomod craze isn't a cheap plunge in the hobby and it is very personalized so I think it becomes more difficult than it should be to get good money for cars customized with this latest fad.

[69bronzeT5]

From what I saw on the invoices, they overcharged him out the ass for EVERYTHING...

[b5blue]

Click on the ebay link. That's the last page of the invoice there are 4 pages to the invoice.

My bad, seeing that one page was enough punishment! 

[Mike DC]

   
Did XV have a specific hourly labor rate?  Or was their labor bill just a bunch of numbers picked out of the air for each thing they did? 

 

 

[myk]

40K?  Ouch...

[fy469rtse]

Cheap car for 40 k , parts and such , engine drive line etc, you would spend hat easily Myk, what have you spent over the years,
Just needs decent paint job to make it pop
Mark , those bars in the engine bay , to hang your lead light on when your working , or they were left over from a mustang they just built, ! What the hell throw em on there and tell everyone there for handling and charge the owner another 1 k 10 hours to fit

[Ghoste]

The color is one of the things I like most about it.

[myk]

Cheap car for 40 k , parts and such , engine drive line etc, you would spend hat easily Myk, what have you spent over the years,
Just needs decent paint job to make it pop
Mark , those bars in the engine bay , to hang your lead light on when your working , or they were left over from a mustang they just built, ! What the hell throw em on there and tell everyone there for handling and charge the owner another 1 k 10 hours to fit

That's what I'm saying; the "ouch" refers to the low price that the seller got for such an expensively built car; that build easily cost him twice as much as it sold for...

[Challenger340]

I'd like to know what the tubes are bolted to on the other side of the firewall. Don't look like that they would do very much.

Ah C'Mon you guys...
EVERYBODY knows... that to pass Tech Inspection with the Fast'N Furious 4" FartPipe crowd, the rulebook clearly reads.....

16.417.1 states
Wiper Motor Rollbars Mandatory
"All Windshield Wiper Motors must be securely protected from lateral collision impacts by no less than 1" Diameter .080" wall moly tubing, 4 point minimum mounted diagonals, with no less than two grade 5 Bolts per mount..... NO EXCEPTIONS !"

[6spd68]

lol XV needed to give the driver that race cred, for when he shows off his engine to others that aren't in the know 

[Troy]

A. What makes you think XV forced the owner of the car to buy anything? Surely the guy with the checkbook had a say in what went on his car.
B. You guys know that car has been converted to a coil over front suspension right? That little bar in the engine compartment does actually do something...

If I had any money at all I'd hang around rich guys who like their toys - just to buy the "cast-offs". Some killer deals out there on highly modified cars! I think they all know they're going to lose money but the dream of having a "one off" car is stronger.

Troy

[Challenger340]

B. You guys know that car has been converted to a coil over front suspension right? That little bar in the engine compartment does actually do something...

nope, I didn't know that ?
Hmmm...
You might have a point there Troy ?

But I still believe, IMO....
that if a person is "permanently" converting..... something as important to safety as a "coil over" front steering suspension... with the need therein for re-enforcing the top mount ?... if THAT is the intent of the bar ?
it should be done in a manner equally "permanent" to the uni-body construction.... as in "permanent" by welding.
What happens if the Bolts come loose ?
What happens if somebody forgets to re-install the Bar ?

It is probably functional to added strength on the top coil over mount.... no doubt about that.... but I believe it was more "looks", than "function" if it comes to liabilities over time ?

[73rallye440magnum]

From a statics standpoint, bolts behave the same as a weldment.

[Kern Dog]

"Handling" seems to be a tough sell to this Mopar crowd. Life is more than 1320 feet of arrow straight pavement.
Triangulating is a proven theory in many conditions. It works. If the car had the reinforcements on the interior side of the firewall, the bracing would be effective in the same way that subframe connectors are.
In 1973, the A body line got 2 diagonal braces from the firewall to the fenders. I'm sure the b body line did too. While the braces were not nearly as robust as the one on this XV car, the theory is valid. Ever look at a 60s Mustang? Same principal in play there. Don't dismiss the bracing as being on par with Chrome chinese valve covers or Honda fart pipes because YOU don't understand it.
Cornering is so much more fun than drag racing. A car that can turn corners can still be fast in the 1/4 mile. A dragstrip car usually can't corner worth a damn.

[Ghoste]

Hard cornering is more fun to some, not all.  I've done both and I much prefer drag racing.  I think a lot of the restomod cars though don't actually do much of either, a lot of folks do it because its the in thing right now.

[WHITE AND RED 69]

B. You guys know that car has been converted to a coil over front suspension right? That little bar in the engine compartment does actually do something...

nope, I didn't know that ?
Hmmm...
You might have a point there Troy ?

But I still believe, IMO....
that if a person is "permanently" converting..... something as important to safety as a "coil over" front steering suspension... with the need therein for re-enforcing the top mount ?... if THAT is the intent of the bar ?
it should be done in a manner equally "permanent" to the uni-body construction.... as in "permanent" by welding.
What happens if the Bolts come loose ?
What happens if somebody forgets to re-install the Bar ?

It is probably functional to added strength on the top coil over mount.... no doubt about that.... but I believe it was more "looks", than "function" if it comes to liabilities over time ?

The XV kit does have a main shock tower support that is welded in to the shock towers so all the force is not put on a bolted on engine brace.

The engine bay support is mainly there to tie together the two sides and does make a difference. Also needs to be bolted on or doing any engine work would be a huge pain. Each mounting point also has steel plates that should be welded in to add strength.

XV did have some great ideas that were well thought out.

[myk]

"Handling" seems to be a tough sell to this Mopar crowd. Life is more than 1320 feet of arrow straight pavement.
Triangulating is a proven theory in many conditions. It works. If the car had the reinforcements on the interior side of the firewall, the bracing would be effective in the same way that subframe connectors are.
In 1973, the A body line got 2 diagonal braces from the firewall to the fenders. I'm sure the b body line did too. While the braces were not nearly as robust as the one on this XV car, the theory is valid. Ever look at a 60s Mustang? Same principal in play there. Don't dismiss the bracing as being on par with Chrome chinese valve covers or Honda fart pipes because YOU don't understand it.
Cornering is so much more fun than drag racing. A car that can turn corners can still be fast in the 1/4 mile. A dragstrip car usually can't corner worth a damn.

Glad to see that someone actually gets it...

[tan top]

 

[tan top]

 

[tan top]

 

[Ghoste]

Not a horrible car is it?  I like the color but dont care for the aftermarket seats and Grant steering wheel at all and the dub wheels make me retch but thats all stuff you can fix.  I hope the new owner is happy, they should be.

[Challenger340]

B. You guys know that car has been converted to a coil over front suspension right? That little bar in the engine compartment does actually do something...

nope, I didn't know that ?
Hmmm...
You might have a point there Troy ?

But I still believe, IMO....
that if a person is "permanently" converting..... something as important to safety as a "coil over" front steering suspension... with the need therein for re-enforcing the top mount ?... if THAT is the intent of the bar ?
it should be done in a manner equally "permanent" to the uni-body construction.... as in "permanent" by welding.
What happens if the Bolts come loose ?
What happens if somebody forgets to re-install the Bar ?

It is probably functional to added strength on the top coil over mount.... no doubt about that.... but I believe it was more "looks", than "function" if it comes to liabilities over time ?

The XV kit does have a main shock tower support that is welded in to the shock towers so all the force is not put on a bolted on engine brace.

The engine bay support is mainly there to tie together the two sides and does make a difference. Also needs to be bolted on or doing any engine work would be a huge pain. Each mounting point also has steel plates that should be welded in to add strength.

XV did have some great ideas that were well thought out.

So is this in the above photo..... the "welded in shock tower support" component on the inside of the front wheel well ?

Yes, I GET the whole triangulation thing.... and stiffening up a unibody in general.... we used to share Shop Space with Ground Zero Race Cars, a tiny bit rubbed off....... that's not my point !

How are the Triangulated front shock supports tied to.... and throughout the Cab Component Unibody? with no Cage present, or direct transfer to a subframe connector?

Is it just through the "weld affected" areas of the Firewall and Inner Aprons ? or something else unseen ?

BTW... Nice Front Seats and Headrests

IMO,
I think people that spend many THOUSANDS of Dollars, for example: repairing a "detonation" problem the WRONG way..... because THEY don't understand it, and have trouble with making Horsepower in general.... should stick with "cornering".... and the simple stuff like "triangulation"... as much more "Fun" with THEIR 40 year old Cars ?
You still have to STOP at the stoplight.... wherein... you should be really adept at "turning" ... BEFORE it turns green !

[74Rallye]

Awesome car, except for those wheels.

[WHITE AND RED 69]

So is this in the above photo..... the "welded in shock tower support" component on the inside of the front wheel well ?

Yes, I GET the whole triangulation thing.... and stiffening up a unibody in general.... we used to share Shop Space with Ground Zero Race Cars, a tiny bit rubbed off....... that's not my point !

How are the Triangulated front shock supports tied to.... and throughout the Cab Component Unibody? with no Cage present, or direct transfer to a subframe connector?

Is it just through the "weld affected" areas of the Firewall and Inner Aprons ? or something else unseen ?

BTW... Nice Front Seats and Headrests

IMO,
I think people that spend many THOUSANDS of Dollars, for example: repairing a "detonation" problem the WRONG way..... because THEY don't understand it, and have trouble with making Horsepower in general.... should stick with "cornering".... and the simple stuff like "triangulation"... as much more "Fun" with THEIR 40 year old Cars ?
You still have to STOP at the stoplight.... wherein... you should be really adept at "turning" ... BEFORE it turns green !

Ok, maybe that was a bad example. That pic just showed one piece of the support on a stock suspension b body, not the XV frame. The XV kit has a whole weld in shock tower that replaces the stock tower and is directly welded to the frame. Is it as strong as a tube frame chassis all welded up...of course not, it is a street car not a race car that is using the areas it can work with. The setup wasn't meant to eliminate all the flex, just reduce it. I didn't design it or build it so I can't tell you where all the transfer of energy is or how they reinforced everything to tie it all together but some chassis stiffening is better than none.

Was the above comment really necessary? I could argue with your comment of why would anyone put tens of thousands of dollars into a 600+ horsepower engine for the street, when they will be stopping at the same red light...A lot of good its doing them at a red light. And all that power is necessary in a 35mph zone...right?   

[bill440rt]

I wonder what the new owner is going to change on it to suit their tastes? 
Maybe they'll just leave it alone? 
Or not...

[Troy]

B. You guys know that car has been converted to a coil over front suspension right? That little bar in the engine compartment does actually do something...

nope, I didn't know that ?
Hmmm...
You might have a point there Troy ?

But I still believe, IMO....
that if a person is "permanently" converting..... something as important to safety as a "coil over" front steering suspension... with the need therein for re-enforcing the top mount ?... if THAT is the intent of the bar ?
it should be done in a manner equally "permanent" to the uni-body construction.... as in "permanent" by welding.
What happens if the Bolts come loose ?
What happens if somebody forgets to re-install the Bar ?

It is probably functional to added strength on the top coil over mount.... no doubt about that.... but I believe it was more "looks", than "function" if it comes to liabilities over time ?

There are a couple of reasons I mentioned it - but mainly to see if anyone was paying attention.

If you ever watched XVs original video of their suspension testing you'd see that a stock B or E body flexes a great deal in the engine compartment area. Torque boxes, radiator support brace, and inner fender supports lessen the movement considerably and aren't as "in your face" as the engine cross brace. (They are actually pretty well hidden from a casual observer.) That doesn't mean the brace isn't necessary - but it probably won't be nearly as noticeable if you've done the other mods first.

I mentioned the coil over suspension but if you look at the design you can see that it isn't directly mounted to the shock towers like some others. So, in this case, the bar isn't there to counteract the additional forces from the suspension - it just stiffens the unibody. Possibly overkill? EXCEPT that the entire front suspension and steering is now contained in the k-frame assembly so any movement of the front frame rails negates some of the advantages.

Yes, when you get to competition level cars it seems a bit pointless to not have a cage. However, the market for this sort of suspension/brake/steering package is to have a car that looks reasonably stock but will handle very well - at least a LOT better than stock without the harshness of a full blown competition car. It's a compromise that work pretty good for most people I'd imagine.

Troy

[Mytur Binsdirti]

If the car had the reinforcements on the interior side of the firewall, the bracing would be effective in the same way that subframe connectors are.

The point I was making is what could the brackets be bolted to on the inside of the firewall? That's a tough area to get some bracing up to and hopefully, it's not just bolted to the sheetmetal

[Cooter]

"Handling" seems to be a tough sell to this Mopar crowd. Life is more than 1320 feet of arrow straight pavement.
Triangulating is a proven theory in many conditions. It works. If the car had the reinforcements on the interior side of the firewall, the bracing would be effective in the same way that subframe connectors are.
In 1973, the A body line got 2 diagonal braces from the firewall to the fenders. I'm sure the b body line did too. While the braces were not nearly as robust as the one on this XV car, the theory is valid. Ever look at a 60s Mustang? Same principal in play there. Don't dismiss the bracing as being on par with Chrome chinese valve covers or Honda fart pipes because YOU don't understand it.
Cornering is so much more fun than drag racing. A car that can turn corners can still be fast in the 1/4 mile. A dragstrip car usually can't corner worth a damn.

I get the canyon carving thing....really, I do...however, when dealing with musclecars, two roll up to a stoplight, one driver says to other...
"Hey man, I bet I can beat you to the next town through and over those mountain curvy roads"...said nobody.......ever.

[Kern Dog]

That is funny Cooter, but not entirely true.
Said Nobody you ever knew...is more accurate.

[TUFCAT]

I agree with Cooter! 

(I'm having this "strange but true"
sensation right now)! 

[6spd68]

I get the canyon carving thing....really, I do...however, when dealing with musclecars, two roll up to a stoplight, one driver says to other...
"Hey man, I bet I can beat you to the next town through and over those mountain curvy roads"...said nobody.......ever.

How awesome of a race would that be though?  Hell, I'd do it in a muscle car with stock suspension just to scare the life out of me 

[Ghoste]

Although in a certain way that is how NASCAR got off the ground. 

[Kern Dog]

A Charger can be made to handle as well as a new car or even better. The unibody is a great starting point and with additional reinforcements it is still lighter than most new cars. Our classics are bound by no emission regulations so we can swap in pretty much any mill we want. The wheelwells are big enough to stuff in some crazy big tires. A car that turns and stops is serious fun. A car that goes fast for 12 seconds but can't negotiate a freeway cloverleaf at more than 30 mph? Ahhh... not my thing.

[XS29L9B2]

it s really expensive for by one name 

[kokxville]

https://nwct.craigslist.org/cto/d/1969-dodge-charger-rt-over/6426027841.html

It's back for sale again,only now it seems to have a manual 5 speed backed behind it instead of the automatic. 

[chargerperson]

https://nwct.craigslist.org/cto/d/1969-dodge-charger-rt-over/6426027841.html

It's back for sale again,only now it seems to have a manual 5 speed backed behind it instead of the automatic. 

Though perhaps not to everyone's taste, car seemed to be decent buy in eBay original auction at $40k.  Now it appears as a "must sell" at $65,000 (or $69,000 if you believe the detailed description).  Must sell at 62.5% profit after driving for 3 years!